Ed Sheeran expected to earn NINE new top 10 songs this week (UK)

[Sepsami 18,913]

I don't understand???

This guys is so basic, bland and boring?

Like yea he's had cute songs but there's no impact, nothing iconic, no visual artistry etc

I truly don't understand the basic taste of the GP

[Pray4FameGa 3,141]

2 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

I don't understand???

This guys is so basic, bland and boring?

Like yea he's had cute songs but there's no impact, nothing iconic, no visual artistry etc

I truly don't understand the basic taste of the GP

I don't think it's the case of people LOVING him, like people do Gaga.

I think it's the case of nearly EVERYBODY being at least a little bit here for him that makes him so successful.

[squeala 875]

[EdgeofTeeth 1,934]

I will never understand 

[venusfly 17,885]

BBC are reporting that only 6% of his album sales came from SPS and 60+% came from hard copies 

[Omar Vela 2,744]

22 hours ago, OBEY said:

SCREAMING at everyone being pressed

congrats Ed!

we are not pressed. He's a mediocre singer/songwriter who also happens to be a complete egocentric douchebag. People like him don't deserve success

[Omar Vela 2,744]

I'm like ...

[Omar Vela 2,744]

12 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Forget race and genre, something that bothers me is that so many men can get away with making very cookie-cutter acoustic or rock-inspired pop music album after album and pretty much always be applauded for it and it will insta get played on the radio er whatever, meanwhile the pop girls always have to top their last efforts or be considered massive flops that never evolve, then when they try new things they get torn to shreds.

You nailed it right there, I have said this always. Maroon 5 does the same song everytime and they are praised, Ed Sheeran does his stupid balads and they act like he's the second coming. 

[Seashell Hooker 1,413]

Ugh why?! He's not even that great of a singer. 

[OBEY 57,109]

14 minutes ago, Omar Vela said:

we are not pressed. He's a mediocre singer/songwriter who also happens to be a complete egocentric douchebag. People like him don't deserve success

So what is the truth   

[StrawberryBlond 14,881]

21 hours ago, DemeLarell said:

1. Idk how your relationship is with other people but I'm talking about me and you. Feels like you toss my opinions aside. And if you see my post on here I serve no bias to anyone. As long as an opinion is sound and informative i don't mind, but to talk about "urban" and "black" communities, my communities, and totally miss the spot makes me uncomfortable. And when I try to inform you about the reality you dismiss it due to your theories. If you listen to music without prejudice stop bring up color. Music has no color. 

2. People might think you are a racist because you focus more on their color than you do their music. 

Well, I'm very sorry if you feel that way. Understand that I think your opinions are just as valid, especially as you're actually from the group in question. But I think I'm just as entitled to take another angle on it. I'm used to men debating the point I've made as a woman on a woman's issue. But they have every right to do that, I just think they should be a bit more respectful and open-minded when they do. I daresay we had the same problem when we disagreed over the sexism in Hotline Bling. I'm really trying not to miss the point, I'm trying to be as empathetic as I can. And I say urban and black because they are the correct terms and you use them too, so what's the problem? I'm not necessarily dismissive of your reality but sometimes, you say something that I can genuinely counteract with factual research, so it's hard not to bring it up. And remember that the same reality doesn't exist worldwide. And now I see where we're running into problems - you think I'm the one bringing up colour. I've never seen colour. It has no bearing on my opinions of anyone, as befits my UK stance on colour blindness which Americans don't seem to like for some reason. I only bring up colour when other people bring it up first. That's why this whole conversation started. Because I asked the question: "Why did you bring race into the equation?" I can only imagine the outrage if someone said "black mediocrity" but apparently saying "white mediocrity" is 100% acceptable and shouldn't be challenged. Equal treatment and all. If it's wrong to pick up on the race of a black person, it's wrong to pick up on the race of a white person.

That second statement is utterly untrue. It actually deeply offends me. I just explained above. I'll see colour if I'm instructed to see it. I'm perfectly fine to talk about racial struggle if the need arises but unless there's an actual need to see colour (i.e. when colour is paramount to the subject of conversation), I don't see it. I don't like untrue assumptions to be spread about me just because I'm a white person who dares to tackle the subject of race and be critical of some theories regarding it. If you read any review I have ever given to a black artist's music, you'll know that I focus completely on subject matter, lyrics, production and vocals, nothing else whatsoever. Just like I do with white artists. I only talk about race when the issue is served up to me.

19 hours ago, Touch It said:

Thank you, constantly discussing black musicians as 'they' and 'them' as though all black artists do the same things in music really bothers me. Hence why I suggested maybe the posts were directed at specific artists. I was then told that wasn't the case. 

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here because you can't be bothered to @ me. Since when was discussing black musicians as "they" and "them" a borderline racist thing? I do the exact same with white artists! Apparently, a simple English language grammatical plural to describe any group of people is offensive now! Think about what you're saying. No, the suggestion that they all do the same thing is your interpretation, not mine. There's no need to take what I say so literally. Of course there are specific people I'm talking about but it is a widespread issue also involving those I don't listen to or have never heard of either.

14 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Forget race and genre, something that bothers me is that so many men can get away with making very cookie-cutter acoustic or rock-inspired pop music album after album and pretty much always be applauded for it and it will insta get played on the radio er whatever, meanwhile the pop girls always have to top their last efforts or be considered massive flops that never evolve, then when they try new things they get torn to shreds. And we spend countless hours debating on whether they really "evolved" as artists or what not. We call Beyonce and Taylor Swift overrated even though they've been deadset on evolving their sound and their reach from album to album, era to era, but we don't criticize the Ed Sheerans and Justin Bieber's of the world for their actual musical output, just for their personal scandals and statements. Whats up with that

That I perfectly agree with. The gender issue is the biggest gripe. Men have been able to get away with making sub-par music for years. And their female fans ensure they stay in business. I know that I hang my head over all the women out there who will buy a man's music purely because they think he's hot. You won't find men doing the same for women. They'll just buy a poster to hang on their wall and watch the music videos on mute, like a normal person. You wouldn't catch them buying their music or paying to see them live. But women will happily do it for male singers who have nothing to offer but looks and it drives me nuts that this mindset dictates what's popular.

And while I definitely agree that we're nowhere near as harsh on males or as focused on analysing their output, I will say that I don't think Taylor has evolved much. She's slowly been becoming a popstar from day one. A lot of people have always considered her pop, actually. But yeah, when I'm harsh on a female artist, a lot of people just nod and carry on. When it's a male artist, it's like "How dare you!" especially if this man writes his own songs and plays his own instruments. That makes him more artistically credible yes, but it doesn't make him automatically good.

5 hours ago, Albertodift said:

Sounds like you are bothered by "black mediocracy" slaying the charts recently but you probably wernt as bothered when white mediocracy had no problem topping charts or going top 10 for decades. Yes black artists have been succesful but the member you were debating was initially talking about all artists of color. An artist of indian, arab, chinese etc descent can only dream of having a lick of success in this racist and YES white dominated industry. Black artists have been the only people of color able to properly break down barriers only because they have a substantial, loyal market / core black fanbase that helps launch them and their music into the mainstream. It is a community effort that white artists dont necessarily need (for the most part) because they do not face similare obstacles. A black artist (wether he/she makes what you consider to be below average music) still needs to prove himself/herself in ways a white artist does not. A black (or any artist of color) needs to prove that there is  market for his/her art where as that is never put into question when you deal with a white artist because there will always be a market for white artists. This is part of what makes the white artist / artists of color experience different. For you to dare minimize people of colors experiences with racism in the music industry and in other fields (as you mentioned) as "something we are told to believe" is both harmful and just flat out wrong. Unfortunatly it seems to me that you are no different from the new wave of white young people who seem to dismiss the systematic oppression that people of color still face to this day in EVERY field. You keep mentioning reasearch...try living it. An emic perspective will always trump an etic perspective and that is a fact. End of. 

No, it doesn't bother me at all, you just assume it does. It's always assumed that whites have some sort of problem with blacks doing well. I just have a problem with bad music doing well, regardless of who it's coming from. I only separate music by race when people point it out and make it a bone of contention. Yes, an Asian artist will obviously struggle to make it in the Western music industry but that's usually because a lot of them don't want to sing in English, even if they're capable of it. It's difficult to promote an act in a country where the native language doesn't match the one they're singing in. Let's not pretend that when people talk about race in the music industry, they're talking about black people. Which really shows how underrepresented Asians are, much more than blacks, but that's beside the point.

I perfectly understand what you're saying, but you don't need to put it down in the way you have, as I'm uneducated. Of course it's still possible to experience racism in the music industry but people still talk as if we're still in the 50's. Oh, bigging up the success of black artists is commonplace...but suddenly, we get into the topic of race in the industry and magically, people act as if there isn't one black success story. It's like, make up your mind. They're either successful or struggling, but you can't have it both ways. And don't lump me into the category of the "new wave of white people denying oppression still exists." I'm not some uneducated whitey like you want to think I am. It's highly offensive how I'm forced to endure this every time I speak about race. And by the way, a lot of black people agree with the things I have to say. Doesn't make it correct but it makes it worth listening to. And research is a great way to supplement reality and show that sometimes, things aren't as bad as you think they are. Negative statistics aren't the only ones that exist, you know. But people don't want to discuss the positive ones because then their comfortable illusion of being the mistreated underdog is shattered. Look, I'm a feminist and very proud of it, but to say that women are oppressed in every aspect of life is false and we shouldn't promote this false ideal. I treat race no differently.

[dit 46,483]

34 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

No, it doesn't bother me at all, you just assume it does. It's always assumed that whites have some sort of problem with blacks doing well. I just have a problem with bad music doing well, regardless of who it's coming from. I only separate music by race when people point it out and make it a bone of contention. Yes, an Asian artist will obviously struggle to make it in the Western music industry but that's usually because a lot of them don't want to sing in English, even if they're capable of it. It's difficult to promote an act in a country where the native language doesn't match the one they're singing in. Let's not pretend that when people talk about race in the music industry, they're talking about black people. Which really shows how underrepresented Asians are, much more than blacks, but that's beside the point.

I perfectly understand what you're saying, but you don't need to put it down in the way you have, as I'm uneducated. Of course it's still possible to experience racism in the music industry but people still talk as if we're still in the 50's. Oh, bigging up the success of black artists is commonplace...but suddenly, we get into the topic of race in the industry and magically, people act as if there isn't one black success story. It's like, make up your mind. They're either successful or struggling, but you can't have it both ways. And don't lump me into the category of the "new wave of white people denying oppression still exists." I'm not some uneducated whitey like you want to think I am. It's highly offensive how I'm forced to endure this every time I speak about race. And by the way, a lot of black people agree with the things I have to say. Doesn't make it correct but it makes it worth listening to. And research is a great way to supplement reality and show that sometimes, things aren't as bad as you think they are. Negative statistics aren't the only ones that exist, you know. But people don't want to discuss the positive ones because then their comfortable illusion of being the mistreated underdog is shattered. Look, I'm a feminist and very proud of it, but to say that women are oppressed in every aspect of life is false and we shouldn't promote this false ideal. I treat race no differently.

I respect the fact that you took the time to respond. I still have to disagree with some points you made based on facts and what I mentioned earlier but I guess we will have to simply agree to disagree. 

But again thank you for the well thought out response. Wish I had a chance to talk to you face to face about this topic because it is something I'm educated in as I'm studying these types of topics. I think you'd learn a lot and I could also learn a lot from our discussion.

 

[DemeLarell 931]

On 3/6/2017 at 7:00 PM, Touch It said:

Thank you, constantly discussing black musicians as 'they' and 'them' as though all black artists do the same things in music really bothers me. Hence why I suggested maybe the posts were directed at specific artists. I was then told that wasn't the case. 

Yea it's that and the fact that quite a few people on here expect some black artist to conform to the music they grew up on and what they are use to. It's like the colonization of music. 

[DemeLarell 931]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Well, I'm very sorry if you feel that way. Understand that I think your opinions are just as valid, especially as you're actually from the group in question. But I think I'm just as entitled to take another angle on it. I'm used to men debating the point I've made as a woman on a woman's issue. But they have every right to do that, I just think they should be a bit more respectful and open-minded when they do. I daresay we had the same problem when we disagreed over the sexism in Hotline Bling. I'm really trying not to miss the point, I'm trying to be as empathetic as I can. And I say urban and black because they are the correct terms and you use them too, so what's the problem? I'm not necessarily dismissive of your reality but sometimes, you say something that I can genuinely counteract with factual research, so it's hard not to bring it up. And remember that the same reality doesn't exist worldwide. And now I see where we're running into problems - you think I'm the one bringing up colour. I've never seen colour. It has no bearing on my opinions of anyone, as befits my UK stance on colour blindness which Americans don't seem to like for some reason. I only bring up colour when other people bring it up first. That's why this whole conversation started. Because I asked the question: "Why did you bring race into the equation?" I can only imagine the outrage if someone said "black mediocrity" but apparently saying "white mediocrity" is 100% acceptable and shouldn't be challenged. Equal treatment and all. If it's wrong to pick up on the race of a black person, it's wrong to pick up on the race of a white person.

That second statement is utterly untrue. It actually deeply offends me. I just explained above. I'll see colour if I'm instructed to see it. I'm perfectly fine to talk about racial struggle if the need arises but unless there's an actual need to see colour (i.e. when colour is paramount to the subject of conversation), I don't see it. I don't like untrue assumptions to be spread about me just because I'm a white person who dares to tackle the subject of race and be critical of some theories regarding it. If you read any review I have ever given to a black artist's music, you'll know that I focus completely on subject matter, lyrics, production and vocals, nothing else whatsoever. Just like I do with white artists. I only talk about race when the issue is served up to me.

Please don't talk about me like I'm not here because you can't be bothered to @ me. Since when was discussing black musicians as "they" and "them" a borderline racist thing? I do the exact same with white artists! Apparently, a simple English language grammatical plural to describe any group of people is offensive now! Think about what you're saying. No, the suggestion that they all do the same thing is your interpretation, not mine. There's no need to take what I say so literally. Of course there are specific people I'm talking about but it is a widespread issue also involving those I don't listen to or have never heard of either.

That I perfectly agree with. The gender issue is the biggest gripe. Men have been able to get away with making sub-par music for years. And their female fans ensure they stay in business. I know that I hang my head over all the women out there who will buy a man's music purely because they think he's hot. You won't find men doing the same for women. They'll just buy a poster to hang on their wall and watch the music videos on mute, like a normal person. You wouldn't catch them buying their music or paying to see them live. But women will happily do it for male singers who have nothing to offer but looks and it drives me nuts that this mindset dictates what's popular.

And while I definitely agree that we're nowhere near as harsh on males or as focused on analysing their output, I will say that I don't think Taylor has evolved much. She's slowly been becoming a popstar from day one. A lot of people have always considered her pop, actually. But yeah, when I'm harsh on a female artist, a lot of people just nod and carry on. When it's a male artist, it's like "How dare you!" especially if this man writes his own songs and plays his own instruments. That makes him more artistically credible yes, but it doesn't make him automatically good.

No, it doesn't bother me at all, you just assume it does. It's always assumed that whites have some sort of problem with blacks doing well. I just have a problem with bad music doing well, regardless of who it's coming from. I only separate music by race when people point it out and make it a bone of contention. Yes, an Asian artist will obviously struggle to make it in the Western music industry but that's usually because a lot of them don't want to sing in English, even if they're capable of it. It's difficult to promote an act in a country where the native language doesn't match the one they're singing in. Let's not pretend that when people talk about race in the music industry, they're talking about black people. Which really shows how underrepresented Asians are, much more than blacks, but that's beside the point.

I perfectly understand what you're saying, but you don't need to put it down in the way you have, as I'm uneducated. Of course it's still possible to experience racism in the music industry but people still talk as if we're still in the 50's. Oh, bigging up the success of black artists is commonplace...but suddenly, we get into the topic of race in the industry and magically, people act as if there isn't one black success story. It's like, make up your mind. They're either successful or struggling, but you can't have it both ways. And don't lump me into the category of the "new wave of white people denying oppression still exists." I'm not some uneducated whitey like you want to think I am. It's highly offensive how I'm forced to endure this every time I speak about race. And by the way, a lot of black people agree with the things I have to say. Doesn't make it correct but it makes it worth listening to. And research is a great way to supplement reality and show that sometimes, things aren't as bad as you think they are. Negative statistics aren't the only ones that exist, you know. But people don't want to discuss the positive ones because then their comfortable illusion of being the mistreated underdog is shattered. Look, I'm a feminist and very proud of it, but to say that women are oppressed in every aspect of life is false and we shouldn't promote this false ideal. I treat race no differently.

I simply do not agree. Statistics mean nothing. Statistics are never 100% and the survey pool is only a small portion of the group referred to. We cannot take these statistics and make pseudo  facts and sweeping generalizations. That is what I mean by dismissing my reality with your theories.

And it's not what you say how you say it. When it was said that the only reason why some of the black musicians are successful is because of the color of their skin really shocked me. I have followed some of these artist work so hard and overcoming obstacles to get to where they are, just like gaga did. And I'm in the musical theatre field and I work so hard just to have a chance in this industry and I would hate for anyone to say it was because of my race. No matter what race, if you work hard you will prevail. This is why I say it has nothing to do with race in that sense. 

@Touch It @Albertodift... just wanna here your opinions. 

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

25 minutes ago, DemeLarell said:

 

@Touch It @Albertodift... just wanna here your opinions. 

I've steered clear because debating this is insanely hard to do with @StrawberryBlond. Oh, and I @'d you this time. It wasn't personal the last time I did it, I was mobile. You continue to be very curt in regard to me with your last two posts and I really don't appreciate it. I may have a different view than yours, but I've debated you with complete respect. Please afford me the same.

And, I don't mean debating with StrawberryBlond is difficult due to personality. It's very difficult to do when facts, statistics, or names aren't presented. I've only seen you discuss black artists in bulk, so perhaps you do group people together by race on a general basis. That being said, not all 'black musicians' do the same thing vocal manipulations, etc. Hence why specific examples would be nice, because it just seems like you have a few in mind when writing. Of course, all races are found in almost every musical genre. It's nearly impossible to group musicians together solely by their race.

I'll admit I was vague in my initial comments, but they weren't entirely expressed for the purpose of debate...rather, more tongue-in-cheek. That being said, unless finance or nepotism is on your side, it's hard for anyone in the industry. Even when finance or nepotism are in play it can be hard to find widespread success. White artists struggle, black artists struggle. Each person is different. We're not just looking at the studio end of this though, we're looking at the consumers and the media. Plenty of white artists reproduce or take inspiration from black artists, trends, etc. and are credited with making the trends popular. I can give examples as needed, but honestly, I think we all can name at least two examples off the top of our heads.

No, this is not the 1950s, but to act like everyone is on even footing is just not true. You cannot choose to ignore the plight of people just because you choose not to see it. Historical discrimination takes much more than decades or even a century to rectify. Prejudice, discrimination, and racism are still present in the industry and consumers. Men and women have different experiences in the industry as well. I'm rambling now, but my main point is that yes, everyone struggles but there are still societal issues that, sometimes, can create higher hurdles for minorities, whether they be female, black, latino/a, etc.

PS: Thank you @Albertodift! I was discussing non-white artists and made that clear a few times, but it kept getting relegated back to black v. white. It's not that simple and my comments were directed at all non-white races. Thus, it's much more complicated and it's so frustrating to see it made into a bi-racial issue rather than a more comprehensive discussion on ALL races in the industry.