Bebe 17,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Whispering said: Welp, that's the way it goes. Elections have consequences. Trump is the leader of the free world now. No, I decided to support the most qualified candidate for the job, one that most clearly aligned with my values. Nope, not going to do something that I don't believe makes any sense. What are you talking about? "Welp, that's the way it goes. Elections have consequences. Trump is the leader of the free world now. " How does this relate to anything I've said? "No, I decided to support the most qualified candidate for the job, one that most clearly aligned with my values. Nope, not going to do something that I don't believe makes any sense. " Yeah and your candidate lost! And there no data and no evidence that suggests she lost due to disgruntled Bernie supporters. The data shows that third party candidates didn't swing the election, it shows that Bernie supporters overwhelmingly voted Hillary This is the simple point I am making to you: There is not a scrap of evidence that Bernie supporters caused Hillary to lose - so it's unfair to blame them. There is just no evidence to support your claims that third party voters and disgruntled Bernie supporters lost the election and so it's unfair to blame them unless you can come up with some actual data to support your accusations there is no point in continuing to quote me. Rather than trying to scapegoat your candidates failure onto Bernie supporters, just accept that it was her own failure and the democratic party's own failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 174,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Bebe said: You decided to support an establishment candidate in a clearly populist time, despite all data and polling consistently showng Bernie with a far stronger lead against Trump - you chose the loser candidate. Own up to it and stop trying to push the blame onto other people. This hurts me personally Hillary would've won no problem if it wasn't for the hacks, witch hunts, and lies muddying her image in the final days of the election. And if it wasn't for the media making her out to be some kind of establishment stooge while Trump was the "stupid but entertaining guy", her chances would've been higher too. Everything was unfairly stacked against her That being said, Bernie would've won too and I do agree that it isn't entirely fair to blame Bernie supporters. Maybe the ones that spent the entirety of the general election crapping on Hillary's name and then regretting it after Trump won but still Though in the states that gave Trump the win (Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida...the other one that I forget for some reason), if the third party voters had gone for Hillary, she would've crushed him in the electoral college vote so it is somewhat fair to be upset at Stein and Johnson supporters. The 3rd party candidates split the vote just enough to make Hillary a sort of "Al Gore 2.0". Spoiler But then you could argue that Johnson mostly took votes away from Trump and you wouldn't be wrong At the end of the day, I don't think any of this really matters. The past is in the past and those of us that supported Hillary (like myself) and those of us that didn't need to come together, talk it out, and make a plan to crush the opposition in 2020 and get us back on track. Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, PartySick said: This hurts me personally Hillary would've won no problem if it wasn't for the hacks, witch hunts, and lies muddying her image in the final days of the election. And if it wasn't for the media making her out to be some kind of establishment stooge while Trump was the "stupid but entertaining guy", her chances would've been higher too. Everything was unfairly stacked against her That being said, Bernie would've won too and I do agree that it isn't entirely fair to blame Bernie supporters. Maybe the ones that spent the entirety of the general election crapping on Hillary's name and then regretting it after Trump won but still Though in the states that gave Trump the win (Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida...the other one that I forget for some reason), if the third party voters had gone for Hillary, she would've crushed him in the electoral college vote so it is somewhat fair to be upset at Stein and Johnson supporters. The 3rd party candidates split the vote just enough to make Hillary a sort of "Al Gore 2.0". Reveal hidden contents But then you could argue that Johnson mostly took votes away from Trump and you wouldn't be wrong At the end of the day, I don't think any of this really matters. The past is in the past and those of us that supported Hillary (like myself) and those of us that didn't need to come together, talk it out, and make a plan to crush the opposition in 2020 and get us back on track. There was totally a lot of misinformation, witch hunts and all that when it came to Hillary. I wouldn't deny that. In terms of third party voters, the numbers aren't really that simple When you say "Though in the states that gave Trump the win (Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida...the other one that I forget for some reason), if the third party voters had gone for Hillary, she would've crushed him in the electoral college vote" it's with the assumption that all voters would have voted Hillary." It's not really the full story. In reality, exit polls showed that only 25% of Johnson and Stein voters preferred Clinton to 14-15% who preferred Trump, while the majority – 55% of Johnson voters and 61% of Stein voters – simply wouldn’t have voted for either. If the third parties where barred from running, Clinton might have gained a net 10-11% of those voters, but still lost solidly. I agree that it's silly to continue to complain about the past - it's just not helpful at all when democratic supporters are more willing to scapegoat their loss rather than actually look at the reasons why they lost to the most unpopular presidential candidate in history and make internal changes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Heart 5,142 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 @Bebe you keep spilling so much tea and I love it Spoiler Especially as a Jill Stein supporter Hey Girl is the best song of Gaga's career #Justice4HeyGirl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Bebe said: What are you talking about? "Welp, that's the way it goes. Elections have consequences. Trump is the leader of the free world now. " How does this relate to anything I've said? "No, I decided to support the most qualified candidate for the job, one that most clearly aligned with my values. Nope, not going to do something that I don't believe makes any sense. " Yeah and your candidate lost! And there no data and no evidence that suggests she lost due to disgruntled Bernie supporters. The data shows that third party candidates didn't swing the election, it shows that Bernie supporters overwhelmingly voted Hillary This is the simple point I am making to you: There is not a scrap of evidence that Bernie supporters caused Hillary to lose - so it's unfair to blame them. There is just no evidence to support your claims that third party voters and disgruntled Bernie supporters lost the election and so it's unfair to blame them unless you can come up with some actual data to support your accusations there is no point in continuing to quote me. Rather than trying to scapegoat your candidates failure onto Bernie supporters, just accept that it was her own failure and the democratic party's own failure. Yeah, and your guy lost! He failed to get enough votes to win the nomination. I've already explained exactly what I'm talking about. That's exactly how I feel about the situation. I'm actually an American citizen, that lives here with my family and friends that will feel the full impact of Trumps ridiculous policies. You can keep quoting me with your lectures, but I don't care what you think is "fair". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, Whispering said: Yeah, and your guy lost! He failed to get enough votes to win the nomination. I've already explained exactly what I'm talking about. That's exactly how I feel about the situation. I'm actually an American citizen, that lives here with my family and friends that will feel the full impact of Trumps ridiculous policies. You can keep quoting me with your lectures, but I don't care what you think is "fair". We all know Bernie lost! That's not the argument! You're missing, or avoiding, the point. I'm not here like "Haha! Hillary lost!" I'm just telling you the facts, it's unfair to blame Bernie supporters when the data shows they were not the cause of his loss You know (assuming all goes well) I'll be living and working in the U.S next year? You know I have family there? You're right - I'm not actually an American citizen and won't feel the same impacts as you - but I'm going to feel the impact of Trump's policies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,972 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Whispering said: Yeah, and your guy lost! He failed to get enough votes to win the nomination. I've already explained exactly what I'm talking about. That's exactly how I feel about the situation. I'm actually an American citizen, that lives here with my family and friends that will feel the full impact of Trumps ridiculous policies. You can keep quoting me with your lectures, but I don't care what you think is "fair". Most Bernie supporters ended up voting for Hillary though. It's incorrect to blame them for Trump winning. If anything Democrats and liberals in general, even Bernie supporters (even though it was a similar movement), failed to see that this was the election of populism. There is a reason Sanders and Trump both rose to prominence from opposite sides of the spectrum. Hillary was the establishment candidate and lost. The rejection of the establishment is even spreading to the media now with Trump's rhetoric. Just tonight Trump called CNN FAKE NEWS once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 174,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 9 minutes ago, Bebe said: rather than actually look at the reasons why they lost to the most unpopular presidential candidate in history and make internal changes. Again, this hurts me 10 minutes ago, Bebe said: In reality, exit polls showed that only 25% of Johnson and Stein voters preferred Clinton to 14-15% who preferred Trump, while the majority – 55% of Johnson voters and 61% of Stein voters – simply wouldn’t have voted for either. If the third parties where barred from running, Clinton might have gained a net 10-11% of those voters, but still lost solidly. I'm still having trouble understanding how a Stein supporter can prefer Trump over Hillary. That just seems like a lack of convictions to me Spoiler A bit off topic but that's also why Jill looked like a joke to me. Her saying Trump was better than Hillary...like, as a mega-liberal socialist, how could she support the fascist, racist candidate that wants to privatize nearly everything over the vetted and experienced Democrat that continues to move more and more left as time goes on, so much so that their policies were effectively the same? It's crazy Anyway, I was referencing the votes that Johnson and Stein got in the end, not who their supporters preferred or who they would've voted for had they been forced to choose between Trump and Hillary. I know that's not realistic to say the 3rd party votes plus Hillary's votes would've been a win for Hillary but still Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, Bebe said: We all know Bernie lost! That's not the argument! You're missing, or avoiding, the point. I'm not here like "Haha! Hillary lost!" I'm just telling you the facts, it's unfair to blame Bernie supporters when the data shows they were not the cause of his loss You know (assuming all goes well) I'll be living and working in the U.S next year? You know I have family there? You're right - I'm not actually an American citizen and won't feel the same impacts as you - but I'm going to feel the impact of Trump's policies. No, you are telling me what you believe to be true, looking in from thousands of miles away. I'm not going to agree with you and that's all there is to it. You still aren't an American citizen. If you were and had voted in several elections and actually lived through the Bush years, you might have more understanding of the policies and situations inside the country. Get back to me in twenty years or so, (after you have been a citizen with full rights and responsibilities) and felt the complete impact of the political system here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bebe 17,289 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, Whispering said: No, you are telling me what you believe to be true, looking in from thousands of miles away. I'm not going to agree with you and that's all there is to it. You still aren't an American citizen. If you were and had voted in several elections and actually lived through the Bush years, you might have more understanding of the policies and situations inside the country. Get back to me in twenty years or so, (after you have been a citizen with full rights and responsibilities) and felt the complete impact of the political system here. I linked you articles! I gave you statistics! 90% of 'unwavering' Bernie supporters planned to vote Hillary! https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/07/25/the-democratic-convention-is-chaotic-the-democratic-base-isnt/?utm_term=.033682cd92ec Statistic show that third party candidates didn't influence the result! http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/11/11/13576798/jill-stein-third-party-donald-trump-win It would be really easy for you to dismiss the opinion of this, clearly uneducated, foreigner by simply producing data that shows disgruntled Bernie supporters lost Hillary the election. The problem is that you can't find the data - because it's not there. All analysis has shown that Bernie supporters overwhelmingly voted Hillary and that third party candidates didn't swing the election That isn't up to opinion - it's data. I'm more than able to see what the data and facts are from Australia I'm sorry the data doesn't support your alternate facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born To Slay 10,996 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 48 minutes ago, PartySick said: I would agree but that'd only hurt the cause in the long run. They'd be thrown in jail and the pipeline(s) would be rebuilt without opposition. Staying peaceful is the only way we can ensure our constant presence. OT: Disgusting. Reveal hidden contents I have a feeling I'm going to be using that word a lot. Well they'd need professionals who could escape without going to jail. And honestly, if they're gonna build it anyway, it makes sense that if peace doesn't work, to blow it up. to any fed people who may read this, I am not planning this or know anyone who is, it's perfectly legal for me to say I think it'd be cool if someone blew up the pipeline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 109,972 Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bebe said: I'm sorry the data doesn't support your alternate facts. I'm sorry but can we stop and laugh at the fact that this phrase is now a thing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 Just now, Morphine Prince said: I'm sorry but can we stop and laugh at the fact that this phrase is now a thing? It's actually alternative facts, just saying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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