Why I Admire Gaga Less Now

[jojuun 4,159]

5 minutes ago, Tumblr said:

Yet your name is Jojuun so keep ya slick ass mouth shut. Rude ass.

I contributed to this thread by letting you know that your essay is meaningless sorry!

Really? Saying "slick ass mouth" right before calling ME rude?

If my "essay" was that meaningless to you, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't have validated it with a post of mine. 

So whatever, thank you. 

Rihported your rude remark!

[Bebe 17,093]

47 minutes ago, jojuun said:

Well, it isn't exactly a one-sided kind of thing now is it Bebe? It's all tied together. These points can all exist together without devaluating each other. I don't get why you are trying to undermine my post in which I've obviously invested time in to kindly express my views without being all "she's just an emotional mess now to me, I like Beyonce and Madonna better now cause they don't whine as much". Which would be the general thread opener some of these 16 year olds on here would make...

Back on-topic and a reply to your post: I believe she knew what she was getting into/had a longing for tragedy in her life back then (both facts, she's said so, around the same time) -> then kind of found some sort of comfort in the victim-role after first fame (not saying she massively enjoys feeling "weak" or being a victim tho, but to a certain extend, a comfort in implying that publicly) -> goes in and out of negative spirals because of self-inflicted issues that tie in with that yearning for tragedy -> creative process as a result of the inspiration she feels when she's down -> the first set-up of an era, we generally believe all is fixed -> clearly not, "fire" and work-ethic we saw earlier is not present anymore mid-era -> back into the spiral... Repeating it "all over again." (Yes, a quote from MTN)

"Well, it isn't exactly a one-sided kind of thing now is it Bebe? It's all tied together. These points can all exist together without devaluating each other. I don't get why you are trying to undermine my post in which I've obviously invested time in to kindly express my view"

I'm just saying, it's hard to talk about all your points when you're making so many  I'm not trying to undermine you're opinions, I just think it's hard for anyone to engage with what you're saying when they have to counter 6 different points. I just thought it would be helpful if you could maybe try and narrow down your argument a bit so that we didn't have to go off onto all these different branches. It's clear you have put a lot of thought into this and that's fantastic  My comment wasn't made as a dig whatsoever.

I think the problem with what you are saying in general is that it's making a lot of assumptions. You are assuming different intentions and motivations based on different actions or based on quotes taken out of context. I've seen this happen to people I know, I've seen this happen to a friend of mine who received news attention - you'd read the comments and there are pages of people making assumptions and saying "Well she acted like this, so she obviously wanted this - or thinks like this". This is something we can't really have a proper conversation about. The level of scrutiny we sometimes place on celebrities words and actions I think can often be a little over the top - I think if we were placed under the same level of scrutiny by everyone around us we would collapse into a pit of anxiety.

"I believe she knew what she was getting into/had a longing for tragedy in her life back then (both facts, she's said so, around the same time)"

I think she engaged in some reckless, rebellious and self-destructive behaviour. Typical of somebody her age and typical of someone with underlying problems with depression and anxiety.

"then kind of found some sort of comfort in the victim-role after first fame (not saying she massively enjoys feeling "weak" or being a victim tho, but to a certain extend, a comfort in implying that publicly) "

I think that's a huge assumption. I think you are projecting certain motivations and intentions here that are nothing more but assumptions. Gaga is a very open person, but I know people like that in my life. I'm generally more guarded myself, but I don't think Gaga's openness necessarily translates to her wanting to be a victim, or liking being a victim.

" goes in and out of negative spirals because of self-inflicted issues that tie in with that yearning for tragedy"

Again I think that's an assumption, she has depression and anxiety - that's not something you can choose. You can't decide you will avoid going into these negative spirals. I think it's unfair to call her issues 'self-inflicted' too.  She didn't choose to be bullied, she didn't choose to be assaulted. She has problems with drugs, but that's an issue that's very complicated - a lot of smart people have abused drugs. She self medicated for a while, she made some poor choices, but we all do in life.

"creative process as a result of the inspiration she feels when she's down "
Is that a criticism?

"the first set-up of an era, we generally believe all is fixed"

I think that's naive, it can be hard to place your feelings to when you're struggling with depression and are on medication. I remember a couple of years ago thinking I was doing well and then one day while on the train I suddenly needed to run off at the next station I came to because I was about to spontaneously break down in tears  I realised at that moment how deeply unhappy I was and that my problems and my dreams of suicide where actually serious. It's sounds dumb, but I remember thinking "I don't think I'm depressed, I'm doing alright right now. Is wanting to kill yourself a problem?" When your emotional base-line is constantly low, for an extended period of time, that low quickly adapts and becomes normal.

Maybe she is doing well in that period, but depression and mental health can be a bitch

"clearly not, "fire" and work-ethic we saw earlier is not present anymore mid-era"

I think that's more a result of where she is now and her different goals  She has talked about how her priorities are different and how during the whirlwind of promo she was missing important family events and how she felt like she was being used for money. Right now she has talked about how what's important to her now is that she can employ her friends, she is stable, she can make music and she can spend time with her family.

"back into the spiral... Repeating it "all over again." (Yes, a quote from MTN)"

That quote from MTN was more of a "If you fall of the horse, get right back on again" sort of a line than what you are making it.

[Tumblr 1,846]

1 minute ago, jojuun said:

Really? Saying "slick ass mouth" right before calling ME rude?

If my "essay" was that meaningless to you, if I was in your shoes, I wouldn't have validated it with a post of mine. 

So whatever, thank you. 

Rihported your rude remark!

I reply to rude comments with rude comments, thats usually how the world works sis. Except I'm not enough of a baby to report 

 

[jojuun 4,159]

2 minutes ago, Helxig said:

Good luck getting an A on this thesis paper!

I'm sorry my vocabulary consists of more than "slay mama" or something.

26 minutes ago, petedagrk said:

Right. I dont even like to read in the first place. 

Isn't the point of a board like the one we're on to discuss things? What are all these posts about my text being too long? Then don't read it. But then also don't post here saying you didn't read it bc it's that long, like, what's the point? It's long, I know bc I wrote it, it stays there. What do you think stating the obvious is going to do? Make it shrink?

[yxi 4,999]

Madonna this... Madonna that...

I think you should move over to one of her forums

[hELXIG 42,954]

1 minute ago, jojuun said:

I'm sorry my vocabulary consists of more than "slay mama" or something.

Isn't the point of a board like the one we're on to discuss things? What are all these posts about my text being too long? Then don't read it. But then also don't post here saying you didn't read it bc it's that long, like, what's the point? It's long, I know bc I wrote it, it stays there. What do you think stating the obvious is going to do? Make it shrink?

Sorry I just couldn't help but make a joke when I saw the longest thread on GGD I've ever seen, titled "why i admire gaga less now"  

[Bebe 17,093]

Omg guys stop with the personal insults and attacks  Lets not get so defensive over different opinions either.

[TheFriend 1,974]

Sorry I can't keep up with the walls of text 

I believe these two quotes summarizes my opinion.

[Tumblr 1,846]

2 minutes ago, Helxig said:

Sorry I just couldn't help but make a joke when I saw the longest thread on GGD I've ever seen, titled "why i admire gaga less now"  

This, he's clearly a Medonster looking for attention 

[PeterPan 0]

8 minutes ago, jojuun said:

I'm sorry my vocabulary consists of more than "slay mama" or something.

Isn't the point of a board like the one we're on to discuss things? What are all these posts about my text being too long? Then don't read it. But then also don't post here saying you didn't read it bc it's that long, like, what's the point? It's long, I know bc I wrote it, it stays there. What do you think stating the obvious is going to do? Make it shrink?

I said i did read it. Anyways im way to tired to so im just gonna stop here

[freebit 6,240]

23 minutes ago, jojuun said:

But that's the thing. I like that someone like Madonna or Beyonce is able to showcase vunerability while still taking complete ownership of their careers and having a strong image and dedicated work ethic.

I even like some who was as "messed up" as Amy Winehouse more when it comes to expressing emotions. She sometimes straight-up broke down. Amy never sat in interviews semi-analysing herself. Gaga does that all the time. What's the point of it if she's not breaking away from it?

My issue with Gaga is, is that she's aware of it. She knows it's self-inflicted (or at least a big part of her struggles are). Yet she goes in and out of it again and again. Like I said earlier in a reply to another user, any therapist will tell you: being aware of it is the first step of recovery. So why does she always get to that stage of awareness, tries to reach the stages of healing yet never seems to arrive at that final destination and then instead likes to scab at the wounds again to let it all pour out yet again?

I fail to see how her talking frankly to interviewers is this huge sign of being "weak." She could also find that being open about her experiences might help another person out there who happens to be listening or reading. A lot of Gaga's impetus around talking about her experiences is to help people feel a little less alone in the world. Does it really matter in the end how she accomplishes this as long as she achieves her goal? I would take this any day over Gaga feeling like she has to express being a ~strong woman~ (or rather, someone else's idea of a strong woman) in a way that comes unnaturally to her. 

[Fingerella 3,170]

Like none of us are gonna read all of that negativity. Like literally make your posts short and straight to the point. 

[GhettoFabulous 18,501]

Ok that's good for you
 

[666 others 1,856]

43 minutes ago, JoshieS said:

So I started by skipping some parts, until it got to the good stuff, and you know, I've thought about all of this [excluding the Madonna moments], about Gaga and her family making her a star etc.

And you know, all I was thinking while reading this post was, you know, if all of what you're saying is true, it really doesn't matter because the fact is, she has the pipes and the talent to pull it off.

All of what you've said is irrelevant, because, she can actually sing, she is a rare talent.

I also feel that this entire post is basically you telling us why we should like Madonna over Gaga...so...it's a no from me. I thought you were creative with how you were going with the story and then suddenly it got to "well this is how Gaga should be like Madonna" and i was like no thanks.

This.

[jojuun 4,159]

43 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Gaga and Madonna are completely different personalities. If you like the way that Madonna's acts and behaves, go spend your time on her. It's not like there aren't places to discuss her.

Gaga has always been different than Madonna...and I'm much more interested in the way Gaga reacts and interacts with the world and her fans...and how she expresses herself artistically. 

 

31 minutes ago, JoshieS said:

So I started by skipping some parts, until it got to the good stuff, and you know, I've thought about all of this [excluding the Madonna moments], about Gaga and her family making her a star etc.

And you know, all I was thinking while reading this post was, you know, if all of what you're saying is true, it really doesn't matter because the fact is, she has the pipes and the talent to pull it off.

All of what you've said is irrelevant, because, she can actually sing, she is a rare talent.

I also feel that this entire post is basically you telling us why we should like Madonna over Gaga...so...it's a no from me. I thought you were creative with how you were going with the story and then suddenly it got to "well this is how Gaga should be like Madonna" and i was like no thanks.

The only reason I brought up Madonna is because Madonna is brought up time and time again in Gaga's life and career and with the recent Radio Beats 1 it felt even more fitting...

Gaga said herself  "I prayed that God would teach me something, that he would instill in me a creativity and a strangeness that all of those people that I love and respected had." She thanked Madonna, Prince and Bowie in the liner notes of The Fame, as her idols. So a quote about yearning for tragedy like her idols is obviously slightly related to Madonna since she addressed her as her idol in the liner notes of the album she put out at the time of the damn quote, why is that so hard for you people to understand? Bringing up Madonna doesn't mean "Why can't she just be like her, kthxbai." I'm genuinely asking, why is that Beyonce and Madonna (people she said she admired) can talk (more briefly so than Gaga) about their struggles and tragedies in their lives, even write several personal songs about them yet are able to break away from it (or at least so publicly) and Gaga is not able to? Why is she tied to many of the same self-inflicted struggles she's had since the start? Let me use another example instead, why can P!nk write a song like Family Portret, feature her mom in a About The Music documentary where they talk about the turbulence of her youth because of that domestic abuse/divorce and yet give that tragedy a place in her life once she's worked through the anger (maybe thanks to her music). Gaga spoke about being aware of the self-inflicted struggles at 24. She's about tot turn 31. That's 7 years of dealing with pretty much the same issues. I'm not blaming her, things take time, sure, I just don't get why the need to be so public about it, to have this dialogue with fans and act like the healing for her is pretty much done, only to return to it every single mid-album cycle... Or right after.