Cisgender man to act Transgender in Mark Ruffalo film

[SKANK 14,288]

27 minutes ago, VenusOddity said:

lol fvck off. i dont care if i allienate "potential allies". where are they when i get misgendered, when we get murdered.

gender identity is not an issue to you, of course.

 

 

Not that it is any of your business or relevant to my opinion on this subject, but If forced to categorize myself I would not identify as cis-gender, but as demigender. I am certainly Queer, and have no problem with non-Queer people portraying Queer characters on film.

Thankfully there are Trans activists who prioritize winning over allies and not having emotional break downs when confronted with different opinions, unlike yourself.

 

 

[Bebe 17,094]

33 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

 

It's worth considering Lavern Cox has been cast as a cis-gender transvestite in Fox's reboot of The Rocky Horror Picture Show. Not only is a transgender actress portraying the cis-gender lead in a high profile television musical, she is taking away gigs from transvestite actors like Eddie Izzard. Yet Lavern Cox nor Fox were forced to apologizes to the transvestite community for this casting decision.

 

Yeah, that's very much true. I actually thought about Lavern Cox's role on that show while thinking about Trans roles. I think that's a very different scenario though, not one that can truly be compared... Eddie Izzard is male, he identifies as male and presents himself as male. He is able to play roles where he is a straight male (he is a straight male) his transvestism is not really comparable to transgenderism. 

The casting of Lavern Cox, to me, actually sort of shows once again how limited opportunities are for Trans actors. It's a great role and so is her role in Orange Is The New Black but she is playing what is essentially a pretty queer and gender fluid character. It's a fantastic role, but it doesn't really seem to show that Trans actors have comparable opportunities to their cis counterparts. The part still fits within a very narrow frame of what is acceptable for a trans actor.
 

[Dominic 11,922]

1 minute ago, VenusOddity said:

lol now youre telling me whata the opinion of my people on this i just cant anymore.

its just like you all dont want to understand. 

imagine a film where a gay character is turned straight. thats how it feels for us.

 im tired tho. this sites opinions on trans ppl are always the same: yours matter more than ours. so, bye. trying to get that permabam so i cant get any more angrier about this racist transphobic cult site.

That's ridiculous. You are not the speaker of 'your people'. Yes you have insight and I've not disregarded that but everyone is different and that is the same for trans people.  

The fact I'm attempting to have a civilised conversation with you would suggest I'm trying to understand. I've stated I understand the annoyance of the situation however my point is that it's going to take small steps and we shouldn't be attacking someone because they havent given us 'everything'. It's going to take time. It's better to have small steps than none at all. 

You're labelling people vile and disgusting. How is that going to help? You're not wanting to work together you're simply wanting to blame and yell. 

You've not replied to my posts in any intellectual way other than to criticise me and throw insults. If you actually wanted to work together you'd have an actual discussion rather than this attitude you have now. 

[iCpro 14,846]

24 minutes ago, VenusOddity said:

yall DISGUST me. Im sorry but if yall cant see why cis people shouldn't play trans roles youre vile.

whats the point, huh? i, a trans person, get mad about this, get some WP, and get frustrated for speaking my mind but you just ignore to see the problem.

understand that this promotes unhealthy ideas abour trans people.

TRANS WOMEN ARE NOT MEN IN COSTUME JUST LIKE CIS WOMEN ARE NOT MEN IN COSTUME.

the biggest problem here is that you all refyse to listen to us. this is violence. this helps people killing us as if we werent persons.

7 minutes ago, VenusOddity said:

lol now youre telling me whata the opinion of my people on this i just cant anymore.

its just like you all dont want to understand. 

imagine a film where a gay character is turned straight. thats how it feels for us.

 im tired tho. this sites opinions on trans ppl are always the same: yours matter more than ours. so, bye. trying to get that permabam so i cant get any more angrier about this racist transphobic cult site.

I would call this site a lot of things, but it is absolutely not racist or transphobic.

[SKANK 14,288]

4 minutes ago, Bebe said:

Yeah, that's very much true. I actually thought about Lavern Cox's role on that show while thinking about Trans roles. I think that's a very different scenario though, not one that can truly be compared... Eddie Izzard is male, he identifies as male and presents himself as male. He is able to play roles where he is a straight male (he is a straight male) his transvestism is not really comparable to transgenderism. 

The casting of Lavern Cox, to me, actually sort of shows once again how limited opportunities are for Trans actors. It's a great role and so is her role in Orange Is The New Black but she is playing what is essentially a pretty queer and gender fluid character. It's a fantastic role, but it doesn't really seem to show that Trans actors have comparable opportunities to their cis counterparts. The part still fits within a very narrow frame of what is acceptable for a trans actor.
 

 

So you don't think Lavern Cox could portray a cis-gender straight male?

[iCpro 14,846]

21 minutes ago, VenusOddity said:

lol fvck off. i dont care if i allienate "potential allies". where are they when i get misgendered, when we get murdered.

gender identity is not an issue to you, of course.

Just because they're your allies doesn't mean they have to come to your aid and defend you every time you get misgendered. People have lives of their own you know. idk they're probably at home I guess.

Also GGD is having a civilised debate for once, please don't ruin it.

[Bebe 17,094]

1 minute ago, SKANK said:

 

So you don't think Lavern Cox could portray a cis-gender straight male?

Where have I said that? It would be super cool to see Laveren Cox, or any trans actor, play the role of a cis woman or even a cis man if they were right for the role.

You are not understanding the difference here. In a hypothetical world where trans actors are given the opportunity to play a diverse range of characters in the same way that cis actors are and where Trans people are treated equally to cis people I don't see as much of a problem with a cis person playing a trans person.

The problem is that we don't live in a world where trans actors are given the same opportunity and we don't live in a world where trans people are treated equally to cis people.

Trans actors don't get the same opportunities to play a wide and diverse range of characters like their cisgender counterparts. IF trans people are able to find acting work, it's generally within the narrow perimeters of playing a trans person or playing a genderqueer person. Those can be fantastic roles, but at this point we can see trans people are struggling to even be able to play themselves.

What hollywood type movies/t.v shows can you think that would hire a white cis male? What sort of roles can they play? What hollywood type movies/t.v shows can you think that would hire a trans person? What sort of roles can they play?

Do you see the difference? People are upset that Trans actors are not getting the same opportunities, they are forced to try and find work within very narrow perimeters. At this point trans actors are even finding it hard to be cast in trans roles. 
 

[Katharine Hepburn 4,607]

Trans people aren't given cod gender roles so I don't think it's fair to give trans roles to cis actors. However I think the real issue is getting trans actors onto the big screen not who should play what.

[SKANK 14,288]

1 minute ago, Bebe said:

Where have I said that? It would be super cool to see Laveren Cox, or any trans actor, play the role of a cis woman or even a cis man if they were right for the role.

You are not understanding the difference here. In a hypothetical world where trans actors are given the opportunity to play a diverse range of characters in the same way that cis actors are and where Trans people are treated equally to cis people I don't see as much of a problem with a cis person playing a trans person.

The problem is that we don't live in a world where trans actors are given the same opportunity and we don't live in a world where trans people are treated equally to cis people.

Trans actors don't get the same opportunities to play a wide and diverse range of characters like their cisgender counterparts. IF trans people are able to find acting work, it's generally within the narrow perimeters of playing a trans person or playing a genderqueer person. Those can be fantastic roles, but at this point we can see trans people are struggling to even be able to play themselves.

What hollywood type movies/t.v shows can you think that would hire a white cis male? What sort of roles can they play? What hollywood type movies/t.v shows can you think that would hire a trans person? What sort of roles can they play?

Do you see the difference? People are upset that Trans actors are not getting the same opportunities, they are forced to try and find work within very narrow perimeters. At this point trans actors are even finding it hard to be cast in trans roles. 
 

 

I understand what you are saying, and agree for the most part with what you are saying. I'm talking specifically about Lavern's role in Rocky Horror Picture Show. Is that casting choice not as offensive to male transvestites as Matt Bomer's casting is offensive to trans women?

[darkchylde 14,857]

1 minute ago, iCpro said:

Just because they're your allies doesn't mean they have to come to your aid and defend you every time you get misgendered. People have lives of their own you know. idk they're probably at home I guess.

Also GGD is having a civilised debate for once, please don't ruin it.

it's an expression.

and i apologize. i am leaving and i don't want that angry rant to be my last post. i understand i got angry and this was a civiliced debate but it's tiring. i've discussed this too many times already. i'm sorry i got angry but i can't help it, it makes me mad.

you see, i get that most of you don't see the problem in this. but we're not costumes. our stories cannot be presented by people who need to investigate about us and try to understand us, we're not some high risk job or some world wanderers, we're trans people who would be best represented by trans people.

our people don't need to research us, to work on us and how we feel. we know how we feel and any trans actor can deliver than in much an honest way than cis actors.

whats more important is that you understand that we are not something to be acted or something to be costumed. you can't put a wig and some heels on matt bommer and say he's now a trans person because that's not how it works and it promotes the idea of we being just cis people in clothing we shouldn't be wearing.

and look how matt bomer has reacted. jaime clayton tried to talk to him, he blocked her. is that what's left for us? get blocked when we tried to tell people that they're doing it wrong?
 

once again, i apologize to all of you, specially to @iCpro, @SKANK, @Dominic Marc and anyone else i have enraged. i'm not supposed to be like this, but it's tiring.

[SKANK 14,288]

2 minutes ago, VenusOddity said:

it's an expression.

and i apologize. i am leaving and i don't want that angry rant to be my last post. i understand i got angry and this was a civiliced debate but it's tiring. i've discussed this too many times already. i'm sorry i got angry but i can't help it, it makes me mad.

you see, i get that most of you don't see the problem in this. but we're not costumes. our stories cannot be presented by people who need to investigate about us and try to understand us, we're not some high risk job or some world wanderers, we're trans people who would be best represented by trans people.

our people don't need to research us, to work on us and how we feel. we know how we feel and any trans actor can deliver than in much an honest way than cis actors.

whats more important is that you understand that we are not something to be acted or something to be costumed. you can't put a wig and some heels on matt bommer and say he's now a trans person because that's not how it works and it promotes the idea of we being just cis people in clothing we shouldn't be wearing.

and look how matt bomer has reacted. jaime clayton tried to talk to him, he blocked her. is that what's left for us? get blocked when we tried to tell people that they're doing it wrong?
 

once again, i apologize to all of you, specially to @iCpro, @SKANK, @Dominic Marc and anyone else i have enraged. i'm not supposed to be like this, but it's tiring.

 

She didn't try to talk to him, she said "I really hope you both choose to do some actual good for the trans community one day." That is passive aggressive, where as you are just aggressive. So he blocked her, then unblocked her almost immediately.

Apology accepted by the way.

 

 

[Bebe 17,094]

5 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

I understand what you are saying, and agree for the most part with what you are saying. I'm talking specifically about Lavern's role in Rocky Horror Picture Show. Is that casting choice not as offensive to male transvestites as Matt Bomer's casting is offensive to trans women?

I don't think it's comparable. I mean I don't think it would be terrible for any cis male or trans person to play the role of frank n furter. As you can see from your example of Eddie Izzard, he is able to play a large and diverse range of characters recently playing Dr. Abel Gideon in Hannibal.

I'm sure that being openly transvestite does come with some barriers, but they are able to play a range of roles that have nothing to do with transvestism or queerness.

It's different with a cis actor playing a trans person because, really, the only sorts of roles currently available to trans actors are trans roles. It's just disappointing seeing trans actors being pushed out so far that even those roles are becoming difficult for them to be cast in.

[SKANK 14,288]

22 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I don't think it's comparable. I mean I don't think it would be terrible for any cis male or trans person to play the role of frank n furter. As you can see from your example of Eddie Izzard, he is able to play a large and diverse range of characters recently playing Dr. Abel Gideon in Hannibal.

I'm sure that being openly transvestite does come with some barriers, but they are able to play a range of roles that have nothing to do with transvestism or queerness.

It's different with a cis actor playing a trans person because, really, the only sorts of roles currently available to trans actors are trans roles. It's just disappointing seeing trans actors being pushed out so far that even those roles are becoming difficult for them to be cast in.

 

If your argument is that trans actors should be the only actors portraying trans characters until there are more jobs available for trans actors I don't understand why that argument doesn't extend to transvestites as you would extend it to race and sexual orientation.

 

[Bebe 17,094]

14 minutes ago, SKANK said:

 

If your argument is that trans actors should be the only actors portraying trans characters until there are more jobs available for trans actors I don't understand why that that argument doesn't extend to transvestites as you would extend it to race and sexual orientation.

 

My argument is that trans people have the right to complain when they are being blocked out of all roles. 

I've explained to you that, while I'm sure there are multiple barriers to openly transvestite actors, they are still able to play a wide range of roles that have nothing to do with transvestism or being gender queer... When Lavern takes the role of Dr Frank n Furter, your example of Eddie Izzard is able to play:

""Big Bad" Wolfe – possibly the most powerful and dangerous Power ever born, Wolfe has the ability to drain the life force of both humans and Powers at will, becoming stronger and stronger in the process and fueling a multitude of powers which include extreme strength, speed, and massive regeneration" in a Marvel T.V series.

Or film a pilot for a show where he plays the lead role as "Thomas Putnam, a farmer and patriarch of the powerful Putnam family, and a leader in agrarian Salem Village" in a period drama.

On the other hand, trans actors don't have the opportunity to play roles that have nothing to do with them being trans or genderqueer. When a cisgendered person takes the role of a transgendered person, they are taking the only roles currently available to trans actors. If Laveryn Cox doesn't get the role of trans woman, she doesn't really have the option of starring as a superhero or starring as a cis person in a period drama. Those sort of roles are not available to her.

[SKANK 14,288]

Just now, Bebe said:

My argument is that trans people have the right to complain when they are being blocked out of all roles. 

I've explained to you that, while I'm sure there are multiple barriers to openly transvestite actors, they are still able to play a wide range of roles that have nothing to do with transvestism or being gender queer... When Lavern takes the role of Dr Frank n Furter, your example of Eddie Izzard is able to play:

""Big Bad" Wolfe – possibly the most powerful and dangerous Power ever born, Wolfe has the ability to drain the life force of both humans and Powers at will, becoming stronger and stronger in the process and fueling a multitude of powers which include extreme strength, speed, and massive regeneration" in a Marvel T.V series.

Or film a pilot for a show where he plays the lead role as "Thomas Putnam, a farmer and patriarch of the powerful Putnam family, and a leader in agrarian Salem Village" in a period drama.

On the other hand, trans actors don't have the opportunity to play roles that have nothing to do with them being trans or genderqueer. When a cisgendered person takes the role of a transgendered person, they are taking the only roles currently available to trans actors. If Laveryn Cox doesn't get the role of trans woman, she doesn't really have the option of starring as a superhero or starring as a cis person in a period drama. Those sort of roles are not available.

 

We are kind of talking in circles aren't we?

I just disagree with you. The fact that an otherwise qualified actor's gender identity limits the roles which are available to them is the problem. If a trans actor can pass as a cis-gender woman than they should be considered for the part of a cis-gender woman. If a cis-gender male can pass as a trans woman they should be considered for the part of a trans woman. We should be advocating primarily for trans actors to be able to tell non-trans stories, rather then preventing cis-gender actors from telling trans stories. I think the emphasis is being placed on the wrong issue, and to a hypocritical effect.