Why are female artists so sexualised?

[sillynate 6,170]

16 minutes ago, Whispering said:

They majority of girls and women wouldn't find this appealing, not in real life or in entertainment. That's why you don't see it. The majority of males would find it unappealing, as well. 

But if it's appealing for women to do it, why does the GP still get its panties in a bunch when the pop stars do it??

[Whispering 18,865]

5 hours ago, natesARTPOP said:

But if it's appealing for women to do it, why does the GP still get its panties in a bunch when the pop stars do it??

Not everyone is going to agree with it due to individual morals and values. For those that don't have any kind of problem with that type of presentation, the majority of that group are going to enjoy females being sexual in certain ways and males in another way. 

Of course, there are always exceptions and people that prefer something outside of what the majority prefers.  

[Kayla 7,595]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I remember my cousin once said to her mum about how well-dressed my mum and I look: "Mum, why is it that Rachel and Aunty Isabelle always look so sophisticated and you and me always look like a couple of tramps?"

Lol! 

I also love how you guys call bachelorette parties "hen" parties. I think of little chickens going to a bar every time. :rofl:
 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And I totally understand why you suddenly become aware that other people are looking at you now because a comment has been shouted. This whole concept is brilliantly talked about in Everyday Sexism by Laura Bates, the section entitled "Women in public spaces." I sure felt guilty after reading all of it and like I was trivialising something that some women find offensive and even terrifying. And I'm not downplaying those women's experiences. All I'm simply saying is that I don't see certain little comments as that bad, personally. Admittedly, it all comes down to lack of acceptance from men throughout my life.

This may sound strange, but it really means a lot to me that you learned more about it and are able to point out how/why it is a problem for others even if it doesn't impact you. Some people take the "Well I don't mind it so you shouldn't either!" route, which I think lacks compassion and understanding. 

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I know this is all kinda missing the point and that there's more to a man's interest in you than shouting remarks but when it's drummed into you so much that catcalling is a way of life for so many women and it's nothing to do with how hot you are and so on, I start wondering why it never happens to me.

You've NEVER been catcalled?!  Have many other women you know been catcalled? If they haven't either maybe the men where you live are just a bit more respectful? idk. I know it's more of a problem in certain countries/cities than others....
 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yet, I hear other women suffer from it constantly and they don't all look like me. So, I start thinking no man wants me.

Oh heavens! Don't take it personally- I've had a huge variety of people tell me their stories of being catcalled or mistreated by dudes trying to hit on them. Some of my drop-dead gorgeous friends and some of my, for lack of a better word, less fortunate in the physical department ones. I guarantee you are by no means the issue here, love. 

It could also be in how you are carrying yourself- many men who do these things are more likely to do it to women who aren't paying attention or don't look completely sure of herself while out and about. I notice it happens to me more when I'm less focused on the world around me. Perhaps you just exude a different vibe? You did mention later that you are confident, which can be intimidating for the type of lesser men who want to push their attraction and dominance onto a woman they view as weaker and unlikely to call them on their ****. Much like it's been proven that muggers go after people based on their sense of awareness and perceived confidence, not gender or body type, cat-callers also yell out to women who seem less aware and confident. It's gross. 

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And when it comes to p**n and stripping, well, we focus on how degrading it is for women partly because sex can literally hurt women (and in p**n, it most certainly does, frequently) and tend to suffer physically due to being in p**n. Men don't have those problems. Women are also far more likely to be sex trafficked and sexually abused in the industry, and in life.

Ah, very good points. 

I'm not in the "men are evil" boat by any means, but it's extremely telling how much the statistics are skewed towards women being sex trafficked. 
And like...sort of branching out here, but even terrorism. You get these types who are like "Most big acts of terrorism are committed by Muslims! There's a problem in the Muslim community!" and I'm over here thinking Almost EVERY act of terrorism is committed by a man, so why aren't those same people questioning the promotion of violence and power in the male community?!

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, that radio ad certainly is very shocking but I find the outrage comes from the sexist nature of it in the sense that it's seen as ok to talk about women in such a disgusting way on national radio during primetime.

Oh, for sure. I think the line was inappropriate no matter what gender they were referring to. And even on another note I noticed it was another radio ad focusing on heterosexual interests. We're surrounded constantly by examples of women being used for male gratification in a heterosexual context. 
This is why I see artists like Gaga as so important. There are times in which she's sexually appealing in ways attractive to the male gaze, but when she does it it's very clear she is most definitely doing it for herself. And she balances those times out with looks where she is "ugly," because for her it's not about being beautiful for others, it's about doing what she wants. Mad respect to Gaga for not tryna be anyone's bitch.  

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I take exactly the same line with make up as well. It's such a hassle to put on, so I save it for when its absolutely crucial. Most days, all I want to wear is some kind of lip product anyway.

Girl, same! I don't think I'm pretty without it, but I've come to terms with the fact that I don't have to be pretty just because I am female. My go-to is a little mascara, maybe eyeliner.

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

My aunt once asked me seriously why I was wearing make up one day because I 'never' wear it...and then proceeded to ask why I hadn't bothered with mascara. And that I should wear make up more because it'll make me feel good. And that the time and effort it takes is just part of being a girl.

OMG! That's so gross she said that!!!! Could you imagine if you were someone less confident, what a comment like that would do to your self esteem? It's honestly disgusting your aunt would say that to you. 

[Born To Slay 10,996]

On August 29, 2016 at 5:15 AM, HOMODRAKE said:

Women in generally every field are way more sexualized than their male counterparts, and the music industry isn't any different. 

Plus, sex sells. Straight men and lesbians pay more attention, gay men love sexual and strong women, etc. 

But male popstars are also extremely sexualized. Just look at Nick Jonas. 

Although obviously not as much as women. 

Actually Nick Jonas was even more sexualized that night, media outlets talked about his ****. You know no one would do that in the media to a woman. No reporter was like "Britney's/Beyonce's tits are awesome."

[Envi 765]

Maybe it is related to ****ography. The **** industry is booming in the 80s and way before that, and some of the pop acts around that time are Madonna and Cher are known to be sex icons; this influence carries on and on up to this date

Other reason could be that woman has more diverse audiences. Simple, men lusts on sexy and beautiful women, the lgbtq community glorify sexy, beautiful, and powerful women to the high heaven (stan culture). 

Also, women are much more expressive than men. In red carpets, women have infinite ways to express themselves in terms of fashion and sexiness, same goes with movies, music videos and even in Anime (if you don't know what it is, it's japanese comic art) 

Bottom line: Women are the most flexible creatures out there, and they can show their flexibility even though they are being sexualised (you can't really blame the entertainment industry for this because sex sells)   

[StrawberryBlond 14,399]

3 hours ago, Kayla said:

Lol! 

I also love how you guys call bachelorette parties "hen" parties. I think of little chickens going to a bar every time. :rofl:
 

This may sound strange, but it really means a lot to me that you learned more about it and are able to point out how/why it is a problem for others even if it doesn't impact you. Some people take the "Well I don't mind it so you shouldn't either!" route, which I think lacks compassion and understanding. 

 

You've NEVER been catcalled?!  Have many other women you know been catcalled? If they haven't either maybe the men where you live are just a bit more respectful? idk. I know it's more of a problem in certain countries/cities than others....
 

Oh heavens! Don't take it personally- I've had a huge variety of people tell me their stories of being catcalled or mistreated by dudes trying to hit on them. Some of my drop-dead gorgeous friends and some of my, for lack of a better word, less fortunate in the physical department ones. I guarantee you are by no means the issue here, love. 

It could also be in how you are carrying yourself- many men who do these things are more likely to do it to women who aren't paying attention or don't look completely sure of herself while out and about. I notice it happens to me more when I'm less focused on the world around me. Perhaps you just exude a different vibe? You did mention later that you are confident, which can be intimidating for the type of lesser men who want to push their attraction and dominance onto a woman they view as weaker and unlikely to call them on their ****. Much like it's been proven that muggers go after people based on their sense of awareness and perceived confidence, not gender or body type, cat-callers also yell out to women who seem less aware and confident. It's gross. 

 

Ah, very good points. 

I'm not in the "men are evil" boat by any means, but it's extremely telling how much the statistics are skewed towards women being sex trafficked. 
And like...sort of branching out here, but even terrorism. You get these types who are like "Most big acts of terrorism are committed by Muslims! There's a problem in the Muslim community!" and I'm over here thinking Almost EVERY act of terrorism is committed by a man, so why aren't those same people questioning the promotion of violence and power in the male community?!

 

Oh, for sure. I think the line was inappropriate no matter what gender they were referring to. And even on another note I noticed it was another radio ad focusing on heterosexual interests. We're surrounded constantly by examples of women being used for male gratification in a heterosexual context. 
This is why I see artists like Gaga as so important. There are times in which she's sexually appealing in ways attractive to the male gaze, but when she does it it's very clear she is most definitely doing it for herself. And she balances those times out with looks where she is "ugly," because for her it's not about being beautiful for others, it's about doing what she wants. Mad respect to Gaga for not tryna be anyone's bitch.  

 

Girl, same! I don't think I'm pretty without it, but I've come to terms with the fact that I don't have to be pretty just because I am female. My go-to is a little mascara, maybe eyeliner.

 

OMG! That's so gross she said that!!!! Could you imagine if you were someone less confident, what a comment like that would do to your self esteem? It's honestly disgusting your aunt would say that to you. 

 

I also love how you guys call bachelorette parties "hen" parties. I think of little chickens going to a bar every time. :rofl:

I think it's funny that every time there's some sort of family wedding to go to and everyone's pulling out all the stops with dressing, it's always uncanny how alike the mother and daughter dress. All the women in my family are always so self-deprecating about how they always look a mess (even though most of them never do!) and say things like "she always looks fabulous and then she sees us rolling up and thinks 'here come that rag tag bunch!'" Women are so unwilling to admit when they look good, I find. And yes, the idea of hen parties is a funny image - I actually saw that exact image come up on an episode of Catchphrase once! I always wondered why they made it 2 different animals for men and women, why not just make them the male and female name for either of the species? But then I realised that if we went with the poultry theme, you couldn't have a c**k party and if we went with the deer theme, considering that we can call the events 'parties,' nights' and dos,' we couldn't have a doe night (sounds like doughnut!), or in other party terminology, a doe do! (which sounds like something even worse!)

Yeah, I'm always aiming to be compassionate to other struggles, even the ones that don't affect me. I have to deal enough with the concept of "it doesn't affect me, so it doesn't affect anyone" enough in day to day life, I certainly wouldn't do it to other women.

Yes, I thought the admission that I'd never been catcalled would come as a surprise too. No wolf whistles either. Like I said, it's limited to looks and not even all that many at that. I've never asked anyone in my personal circle this question, so I wouldn't know. It's hardly the kind of thing you can just say casually and a lot of women go through it but never mention it. So, yes, I did consider that maybe men where I am are just more respectful...but in Glasgow, really? Granted, I'm accompanied most of the time I'm out, which is a big plus in fending off unwanted remarks. But I walked through the city centre on my own for near enough four years when I was at university and had a considerably long walk through the busy high street to get my bus. I have very sharp ears and am always constantly aware of my surroundings, so it's not like I just blocked it all out. I looked up all those "10 hours of walking in _____ as a woman" videos on YouTube and I noticed that the one in Riga had no catcalls. But that was it. But it seems like NY is one of the worst places for it. Makes me want to try it out, just to see if my fortunes would change. But here's one of the weirdest things - I've endured unwanted flirting (always from older men and shady types) and sexual harassment...but no catcalls and no wolf whistles. Now, isn't it odd that I've endured the more extreme forms of objectification but not the more minor ones? Because if a woman has experienced more extreme stuff, she's experienced the whole lot. You know, "I've been harassed, followed, groped...and that doesn't even include all the leers and whistles and comments." But aside from specific moments of unwanted flirting and harassment a long time ago (the last time was 8 years ago), no catcalls or whistles have come my way. Strange, isn't it?

Yeah, I've been told before that my looks aren't the issue concerning why men don't approach me before. But then I think, well, if the looks aren't a problem, then why no approach? The looks tend to be the way in, right? Of course I realise that men can be just as shy as women and be just as pessimistic about their chances ("a girl that hot is probably with someone already") but because men are encouraged more to make the first move, I just generally think they're more likely to do it. And I'm shy anyway and like a man to do all the chasing. It just feels unnatural for me to start talking to anyone I don't know in real life. All my friendships were started by the other person making the first move. You make a good point about the vibe you exude might give a "don't mess with me approach" and that being tentative can attract bad people. But I'm quietly confident and I walk with a mixture of looking up and down and don't really look people in the eye unless I'm talking to them. On that note, I'd actually like to tell you about an experiment I did once. University days, walking in the city with lots of footfall. I thought I'd walk down the street with pessimism and then confidence, to see if passersby reacted differently. So, I walked down the first street with my eyes down, introverted posture and filled my mind with low self esteem. Every man walked past me like I wasn't there. Then I turned the corner and this time, I walked with eyes straight ahead, walked tall and confident and filled my mind with high self esteem. From my periphery vision, every.single.man glanced at me as I walked past. Not a leering glance, just that casual glance you give random passersby. But no verbal acknowledgements, obviously! But it was an acknowledgement. It told me that self confidence can help and that men do indeed like confident women and women who just 'put themselves out there.' If you make yourself invisible, you'll be more likely to be treated like you're invisible.

If there wasn't such a high demand for women to be sexual, there wouldn't be all this sex trafficking. Not that women haven't been used sexually in a de-humanising way for centuries but there was none of this vast multi-national organisation about it like there is now. Because most women aren't like the women in readily available p**n, it stands to reason that more and more men crave something more extreme, hence, treating women badly through various forms in the sex industry. So many men are having their cake and eating it too what with having a good woman at home while simultaneously getting out sick fantasies behind closed doors that she knows nothing about. And so many are indulging in the multi million sex industry that you start to look around you and wonder if anyone closer to home is indulging in it too...If I had my way, there would a class taught in schools about how to treat people right, what is inappropriate behaviour, the meaning of compassion. Not everyone will listen, but schools need to take a bigger role because parents sure as hell aren't teaching their kids about these things at home.

Yeah, I love Gaga too for taking on sexuality her way. While I myself couldn't really imagine why you'd want to deliberately make yourself unattractive, I respect her for taking that risk. A lot of people ask me when I talk about sexualisation: "How do you know this isn't the way she wanted herself portrayed?" As a woman, it can be so blindingly obvious, but to a man, not so much. In terms of a music video, a woman tends not to want to make it all about the sexuality and nothing else, they don't like lingering shots of certain areas and don't like to see other women sexualised around them. As much as I like Ariana's Side To Side and she looks gorgeous in it, I feel distinctly uncomfortable with all the needless ass shots on the bikes and the unnecessary 'women doing the splits in the shower' scenario. I don't doubt that Ariana enjoys being sexual but come on, you can tell she has little to no say in her videos. They're always making it clear that they were made by men, for men.

Aw, I hope you start to feel pretty without make up one day. I wish more women would realise that they can look better without it. Men have been saying this for years. I don't know one man who actually likes girls wearing lots of make up. They don't like lipstick getting on their mouths when they kiss them, think plumped-up lips look ridiculous, are freaked out by false lashes and just think the caked-on look is scary and intimidating. I find women look younger without it, honestly. I once read a great magazine article that talked about how the 'no make up make up' look is the way to go nowadays. It showed you pictures of all these celebrities who used to pile make up on and did a before and after comparison and then said: "See how much better they look pared back?" All these women looked younger, fresher and more radiant. It was a real eye-opener.

Please note this wasn't the aunt I talked about earlier, I have a lot of them from both sides! The thing is, I know she wasn't saying it to be mean. She genuinely thought she was helping me. She even said: "It's not that you need it to make you pretty, you're a beautiful girl, but make up will just enhance those features even more." Then she said how make up made her feel better because it brightens her up and makes her look younger and that without it, she looks 10 years older. But I felt like saying: "But that's your insecurity, not mine!" And she's in her 50's, so naturally, she'll have that insecurity because your looks do start to fade as your skin ages and you won't look like you used to. So, why is she saying this to someone in their 20's who won't be suffering from those problems for at least another 15 years or so? It's again this feeling of "Girls - be insecure! And if you're not insecure, there's something wrong with you! Which is pretty ironic! And don't forget, it's never too early to start feeling insecure!" I eventually managed to steer the conversation into my lane a bit more and I think she eventually got the message and understood the 'this is how I am - take it or leave it' approach. The funny thing is, I told my mum about it later and she went: "She thinks you need mascara? I've never liked how she puts on her mascara - all spidery and clumpy! She should learn how to do her own better before she tells others to wear it!" Just goes to show - what you think makes you look great doesn't always translate to everyone around you!

[Jinzo 9,639]

On 30/8/2016 at 0:49 AM, neptugne said:

I feel like so many of you are missing the point........ Like.... Name an "ugly" yet super successful and respected female celebrity, period! Doesn't exist! While Benedict Cumberbatch, Ed Sheeran, Jonah Hill, Steve Buscemi, etc etc etc are all still massive and adored! They're not required to be sexy!

 

i'm sure there are plenty more but i'm lazy and i don't wanna think rn lol

i mean she's not ugly ugly ..but i feel like she's not required to be sexy but she's  well respected ..don't know just saying 

[Kayla 7,595]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yeah, I've been told before that my looks aren't the issue concerning why men don't approach me before. But then I think, well, if the looks aren't a problem, then why no approach? The looks tend to be the way in, right?

It seems like the way you carry yourself is what wards it off, tbh. Earlier in your post you said things like " I'm accompanied most of the time I'm out," and " I have very sharp ears and am always constantly aware of my surroundings," so that certainly helps.

Your experiment is really interesting! It's interesting how many factors play into how we are interpreted socially.

(And your talk about bachelorette/bachelor parties made me chuckle- I'm here for "cock party" becoming a thing :rofl:)

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

.If I had my way, there would a class taught in schools about how to treat people right, what is inappropriate behaviour, the meaning of compassion.

I TOTALLY agree with this! The older I get the more I see other adults have not put as much time and effort into their emotional and social development. I've spent so much time focusing on my interactions with others and on figuring out my internal feelings and how they relate to my external world, then I get to know so many other adults that just act like the concept of being emotionally engaged is a completely new topic. 

I met a man while spending time at a lake one day who worded it perfectly; he said, "We feel and interpret the world with our head, our heart, and our gut. So many people don't want to figure out how to make all those parts work together- they don't want to analyze the individual pieces of their feelings."

So I'm completely on board with pushing for ways to get the people of our world to think deeply and constructively about their place in society and within themselves.

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

While I myself couldn't really imagine why you'd want to deliberately make yourself unattractive, I respect her for taking that risk.

It's a strange concept, isn't it? I think it sends the message that there can be more important things than looking pretty, and you don't have to look pretty for your message to get across. Gaga has been a huge influence in me realizing that I don't owe anyone my beauty, just my kindness and compassion. 

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Aw, I hope you start to feel pretty without make up one day. I wish more women would realise that they can look better without it.

Oh I feel fine without makeup! I certainly feel prettier with it, but in reality for me the bigger factor are my emotions and how healthy my skin is. When I'm tired and having been eating well I feel I look horrible, but when I'm in higher spirits and have better coloring in my face I think I'm pretty cute. :P Like today, all the makeup I had was leftover mascara from yesterday that had pretty much all rubbed off, but I was glowing and got to be around parrots so I was happy, and I feel pretty cute. (It also helps that I did this all natural henna dye/treatment to my hair so it's just shiny and easier to manage! :D)

But I do think that it's hard to be around other women who ARE wearing a lot of makeup. Which makes sense- in a group of people who are hiding their flaws and accentuating their assets, if I'm there showing all my flaws and not accentuating my assets I certainly feel less pretty and thus more self-conscious. And the sad thing is that a woman in make-up is the norm, so unless you've got a strong head about yourself as a female social outings without makeup are intimidating! 

 

[Kayla 7,595]

2 hours ago, dancergaga said:

 

i'm sure there are plenty more but i'm lazy and i don't wanna think rn lol

i mean she's not ugly ugly ..but i feel like she's not required to be sexy but she's  well respected ..don't know just saying 

Sia also had years as a songwriter and it was her feature on a David Guetta song that got the GP into her. When you look at female artists who didn't start out working behind the scenes there certainly is often a look that helped them really break into the industry. It's what people signing labels look for- do they have an image we can sell?

So, like, for a woman, if you want to be respected and not have people NOT rely on your looks you've gotta come to the table with some SERIOUS talent or a history in the industry to begin with. I feel that men don't have to have such an "exciting" appearance to be taken seriously and signed, tbh. That's not to say it's easy for a man to be signed- being signed at all is difficult as hell for both genders, but image plays less of a role with men.

People aren't as hard on men's looks either. And when it comes to singing we don't put men up against each other like we do women. 

[Duella Dvil 10,315]

This thread lets me know that we still need Madonna.

[2ndTimeAround 639]

Wow this thread is getting loose. The thing is with females and themselves sexualising themselves is that first of all, it sells. It sells to straight men, straight females, gay men and gay females. I'm currently listening to beep by the pussycat dolls who in their day of being popular, sexualised themselves quite well. Straight men love it because who wouldn't love to watch 6 beautiful girls half naked dancing, straight females like it because it's liberating and gives them a sense of confidence in what they feel is the status quo when it comes to how they should interact with the opposite sex. And with gay males and females it's all very relatable. Male artists don't express their sexual side as strongly on stage or in videos because it simply detracts to the audience and it won't sell as widely. If you had Nick Jonas in a thong grinding on some girl in a mv he would have instantly lost a majority of straight male listeners because even in today's society the world is still full of a lot of homophobic people. Where as with females and female artists, there is less homophobia because these artists set standards for the female population of what's acceptable. Where as males don't necessarily follow those trends as much. **** I don't even know if I'm making sense anymore I am so high rn. 

[VTV 12,769]

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[Alligator Blood 1,444]

i don't know but i'm tired of seeing it 

[StrawberryBlond 14,399]

On 03/09/2016 at 1:49 AM, Kayla said:

It seems like the way you carry yourself is what wards it off, tbh. Earlier in your post you said things like " I'm accompanied most of the time I'm out," and " I have very sharp ears and am always constantly aware of my surroundings," so that certainly helps.

Your experiment is really interesting! It's interesting how many factors play into how we are interpreted socially.

(And your talk about bachelorette/bachelor parties made me chuckle- I'm here for "cock party" becoming a thing :rofl:)

I TOTALLY agree with this! The older I get the more I see other adults have not put as much time and effort into their emotional and social development. I've spent so much time focusing on my interactions with others and on figuring out my internal feelings and how they relate to my external world, then I get to know so many other adults that just act like the concept of being emotionally engaged is a completely new topic. 

I met a man while spending time at a lake one day who worded it perfectly; he said, "We feel and interpret the world with our head, our heart, and our gut. So many people don't want to figure out how to make all those parts work together- they don't want to analyze the individual pieces of their feelings."

So I'm completely on board with pushing for ways to get the people of our world to think deeply and constructively about their place in society and within themselves.

It's a strange concept, isn't it? I think it sends the message that there can be more important things than looking pretty, and you don't have to look pretty for your message to get across. Gaga has been a huge influence in me realizing that I don't owe anyone my beauty, just my kindness and compassion. 

Oh I feel fine without makeup! I certainly feel prettier with it, but in reality for me the bigger factor are my emotions and how healthy my skin is. When I'm tired and having been eating well I feel I look horrible, but when I'm in higher spirits and have better coloring in my face I think I'm pretty cute. :P Like today, all the makeup I had was leftover mascara from yesterday that had pretty much all rubbed off, but I was glowing and got to be around parrots so I was happy, and I feel pretty cute. (It also helps that I did this all natural henna dye/treatment to my hair so it's just shiny and easier to manage! :D)

But I do think that it's hard to be around other women who ARE wearing a lot of makeup. Which makes sense- in a group of people who are hiding their flaws and accentuating their assets, if I'm there showing all my flaws and not accentuating my assets I certainly feel less pretty and thus more self-conscious. And the sad thing is that a woman in make-up is the norm, so unless you've got a strong head about yourself as a female social outings without makeup are intimidating!

Yes, maybe that air does provide that. I know being accompanied, especially by an older woman (the catcallers won't want their call misinterpreted for the wrong person!) or a man (especially one that looks like it could be your dad) can certainly provide a good bit of protection. I decided to ask my mum if it had ever happened to her and I was surprised at how...hostile her reaction was. She said it had happened to her a few times back in the day but not now. But that it was just harmless stuff that wasn't bad-natured. But when I asked her to expand on this idea of 'it was just the way it was back then' with "I was just wondering why it's so prevalent today," and she went "But I don't think it is prevalent." Now, isn't that odd to hear a woman say that? Naturally, I couldn't provide her with all the statistics but just made it clear that it's happening to women all over the world. But she seemed to think it was limited to walking past builders and suchlike. She couldn't seem to understand that it's men of all professions, ages, classes and backgrounds who are doing this. It was like because it hadn't happened to her in so long, she didn't think it happened to anyone anymore. I then said I was surprised it had never happened to me because considering *motions to T&A* and she was all: "What are you doing?" So I said how it was odd that men have never shouted anything at me despite having such an obvious figure. And she was still stuck on this idea that only builders would shout something! But actually, when it all came down to it, I'd finally managed to dredge something up from my memory. I do remember back when I was 16 that I was getting off a train and this much older man saw me and called over: "Can I get your number? You're lovely." So, I guess that counts. But honestly, his whole broken, dream-like tone made me feel that he wasn't...right in the head. Maybe it wasn't a conscious catcall - maybe he says that to every woman walking past!

Maybe you should try this experiment yourself, see if catcalls disappear or worsen either way. I wasn't dressed provocatively either. I didn't even smile, just maintained a neutral expression.

I was at that hen party all of yesterday. What an eye-opener. After our meal, we were all given drawing pads, pencils, erasers and sharpeners and had to put on moustaches and berets and draw the person opposite us in various unorthodox ways (using the other hand, using a continuous line, not looking at all). Then we got a 10 minute break before proceeding to "the next level." No kidding. A man came in, disrobed without a word and stood there without a stitch on. Life drawing class was the last thing I had in mind. The funny thing was, in the best timed moment in history, the second he threw that robe off and struck the pose, my sharpener fell off my lap and hit the floor like a literal pin drop in the seconds of silence! (and I thought something had fallen off him!) We had to draw him in no less than NINE poses. One involved him lying down, legs crossed at a right angle and my seat was positioned in the exact eyeline between his legs. Exchanging drawings later was the biggest laugh I'd had in years! My mum's an amateur artist do and I had to do all this sitting beside her!

I like that little quote you gave me about how we've got to learn to put all our feelings from different parts of our psyche together and make them work. Indeed, I don't think as adults, we focus enough on our social skills, we think we've earned the right to act how we want and as adults we can do whatever we want.

I think a fear of looking unattractive is because we pity the less fortunate looking in society. We feel if we don't make an effort, we won't be looked at in the same light as the beautiful people, so we try harder to gain some instant respect. That's how I feel a lot of the time anyway. Women especially can feel a superiority over other women when they are more beautiful and men, well, they don't always think a woman's worth much if she hasn't got a pretty face. It takes a strong person to challenge that.

This plays into what you just said about make up. If other women are making an effort, we feel like we're required to as well, or we'll look under-dressed and ugly beside them. It's just something that a lot of women don't question until the practice is actually talked about in the clear light of day.

On 03/09/2016 at 1:56 AM, Kayla said:

Sia also had years as a songwriter and it was her feature on a David Guetta song that got the GP into her. When you look at female artists who didn't start out working behind the scenes there certainly is often a look that helped them really break into the industry. It's what people signing labels look for- do they have an image we can sell?

So, like, for a woman, if you want to be respected and not have people NOT rely on your looks you've gotta come to the table with some SERIOUS talent or a history in the industry to begin with. I feel that men don't have to have such an "exciting" appearance to be taken seriously and signed, tbh. That's not to say it's easy for a man to be signed- being signed at all is difficult as hell for both genders, but image plays less of a role with men.

People aren't as hard on men's looks either. And when it comes to singing we don't put men up against each other like we do women. 

I can totally get that. I've been saying for a long time that I think it's annoying how a woman has to have a good voice to get a chance in the industry but a man can get by without that aspect. In all these singing talent shows, if a female couldn't sing, it was a huge issue, she wasn't put through, she didn't have anything going for her. But when it was a male who couldn't sing, he was far more likely to get through or he had star quality or the songs he wrote himself made up for lack of vocal talent or he just had the looks. It means very few people actually call out a man for not being able to sing well. And when I do it, people think I'm weird! It's also much easier to be hot when you're a man. A woman sometimes has to go through a lot of effort to make herself look hot enough to be considered on looks alone but for a man, there's such a wide range of what's considered hot for him (and for a lot of women, personality can make a man hotter), that he can get a chance much easier.

[GagaTheExplorer 3,053]

cause baby your are the boss at home yeah yeah!