Fergie - M.I.L.F. $ (ft. Kim K)

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

44 minutes ago, BrianxRyan said:

We don't have to agree on everything to be a feminist, but if you think a person voting against Parent Plannhood or women having equal rights is a feminist. You're obviously wrong. Plus, Strawberry Blonde said she was a "middle ground" feminist. Therefore, I guess in a sense I was right.

I didn't say "anyone who claims they are a feminist is", only that we don't have to agree on everything and what Strawberry Blonde is disagreeing with here doesn't necessarily put her at odds with feminism as a whole, its a malleable ideology and core tenants of it are pretty much argued all of the damn time  So that's not relevant. You still don't get to be the final say on what individuals are feminist just because they disagree with you. Her opinion, while one I don't agree with totally is understandable and a lot of people feel conflicted on issues like empowerment and sexuality because its complicated stuff. You still don't get to dictate it though. All people's lived experiences are valid and the reason I avoided jumping into this debate is because I realize I don't have the right to be dismissive of other people's experiences just because I'm a feminist and especially because AMAB  Also, you're being excessively rude  

[Sister 9,907]

2 hours ago, JbGaga said:

Ive heard better Erica Jane songs...

wha   this wasn't Erica Jane?!

[Brian Ryan 1,468]

1 hour ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

I didn't say "anyone who claims they are a feminist is", only that we don't have to agree on everything and what Strawberry Blonde is disagreeing with here doesn't necessarily put her at odds with feminism as a whole, its a malleable ideology and core tenants of it are pretty much argued all of the damn time  So that's not relevant. You still don't get to be the final say on what individuals are feminist just because they disagree with you. Her opinion, while one I don't agree with totally is understandable and a lot of people feel conflicted on issues like empowerment and sexuality because its complicated stuff. You still don't get to dictate it though. All people's lived experiences are valid and the reason I avoided jumping into this debate is because I realize I don't have the right to be dismissive of other people's experiences just because I'm a feminist and especially because AMAB  Also, you're being excessively rude  

I said what I said. If I'm being rude, she's just being just as rude as well.

[rpggal 332]

15 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

There are men who have done wonders for feminism. The definition and not your opinion of what a feminist is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. You do not have to male or female. Of course, men are the reason there is this movement, but still there's a lot of women who are the reason why this movement continues today and why women themselves pick apart a woman whose just in a video having fun with moms... and you know the rest. I refuse to keep talking in circles. Go back a few pages.

When did I say you couldn't be a male feminist? I said that you are telling a woman who experiences sexism first-hand that her experiences are invalid, because you're able to "put yourself in women's shoes" better than she is able to live in them, I suppose? A man's imagined experiences are just as valuable as a woman's real ones, now? You can be a male feminist, but not by telling women that they are not being oppressed just because you don't see why something is oppressive. She finds the imagery in the video oppressive, you find it liberating, but guess what you're not a woman and you don't get to tell her what she should find liberating and what she should find oppressive. The liberation that you imagine for her isn't worth **** compared to the oppression she actually experiences. How is this any different than a man telling a woman not be offended by cat-calling or workplace harassment because she "should take it as a compliment"? Sorry, not every woman wants to see women's bodies commoditized for public consumption. Some women find that damaging and oppressive. You don't get to come in with zero first-hand experience and nothing on the line to tell them how to feel. 

[Brian Ryan 1,468]

1 minute ago, rpggal said:

When did I say you couldn't be a male feminist? I said that you are telling a woman who experiences sexism first-hand that her experiences are invalid, because you're able to "put yourself in women's shoes" better than she is able to live in them, I suppose? A man's imagined experiences are just as valuable as a woman's real ones, now? You can be a male feminist, but not by telling women that they are not being oppressed just because you don't see why something is oppressive. She finds the imagery in the video oppressive, you did it liberating, but guess what you're not a woman and you don't get to tell her what she should find liberating and what she should find oppressive. The liberation that you imagine for her isn't worth **** compared to the oppression she actually experiences. How is this any different than a man telling a woman not be offended by cat-calling or workplace harassment because she "should take it as a compliment"? Sorry, not every woman wants to see women's bodies commoditized for public consumption. Some women find that damaging and oppressive. You don't get to come in with zero first-hand experience and nothing on the line to tell them how to feel. 

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,754]

17 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

And I think you are doing a poor job at whatever it is that you are "doing" and I think it does nothing for feminism. The majority of people are not laughing at the video. It has mostly likes on youtube and is still in the top 10. I put myself in women's shoes plenty of times. I am doing it right now as you continue to hate on a fellow woman for just being who she is a successful female woman with hot body not afraid to show or hide it. Multi-millionaire and been in the business probably longer than you have been alive. I am loving the way things are and I hope they continue this way. I salute the strong women in the industry for not giving it to these old idles of what woman should be from the 60s and even earlier. You can continue to be in the middle. I want to be upfront with strong feminist both male and female as we bring the first female president of America Hilary Clinton into office. Ps, just because I do not respond to every single word that you say does not mean I did not read it or comprehend it. I gather my thoughts and touch on all of what you say as a whole and if you felt that I told you "shut up" in a lateral sense. I apologize. Honestly, if I wanted to shut up I would have just told you to "shut up" or stop responding to you. I welcome your views even though I strongly disagree with them. I still find them interesting. Work it proud independent M.I.L.F. Fergie!

Women were criticised for doing a bad job at whatever it was they were "doing" when they were fighting for the right to vote and suchlike. Men have criticised women's opinions forever and have tried to dictate whether what they're thinking is beneficial for society or not. Don't let the number of likes on the video fool you. If it had over 1 million likes vs. 50k dislikes, I could understand your point. But this is 300k+ likes vs 100k+ dislikes. That tells you that views are extremely divided and most people haven't even submitted an opinion. Every site that has run an article on this video is chock full of comments about how awful it is and how degrading it is to women and every comment has hundreds of thumbs up. It's just that the majority of them clearly didn't bother submitting a dislike. Just because the likes outnumber the dislikes (by a small margin) means nothing. I am not hating on Fergie for being a strong woman, but rather I'm disappointed in such a talented woman feeling the need to sexualise herself and others just for some much-needed attention. And that she doesn't seem to care if she perpetuates damaging stereotypes of women in doing so. Believe it or not, it doesn't all come down to jealousy. My views on women are not from the 60's and earlier, I support women's rights to be independent and express their sexuality, just in a way that isn't damaging. I don't really care what way you meant that I should shut up, telling someone to keep their opinion to themselves in any sense means the same thing. I find it mind-blowing that you can't seem to see why this video is so degrading to women when straight men can see why it is. Surely you don't think a video where women are making fellatio suggestions, covering themselves in milk in slow-motion (making ejaculation innuendos) and offering their services to men at "the dairy duchess love factory" and "working at your service" is a positive image of women? If they're bragging about how hard they work and how much money they earn, why are they not at a job in the video and why do they feel the need to offer services to men if they're so rich and independent? She actually says the lyric: "Me and my girls up in the club, hating ourselves but I don't give a f**k." I mean, did no one catch that? I had to rewind it several times to make sure I'd caught that. A song supposedly about the empowerment of women includes a bit about hating yourself but not caring? Is this a wind-up? 

17 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

There are men who have done wonders for feminism. The definition and not your opinion of what a feminist is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. You do not have to male or female. Of course, men are the reason there is this movement, but still there's a lot of women who are the reason why this movement continues today and why women themselves pick apart a woman whose just in a video having fun with moms... and you know the rest. I refuse to keep talking in circles. Go back a few pages.

Thing is, if you want to be a male feminist, you have to respect what the women are telling you. It's all very well to agree with the ones who find overt sexuality empowering but don't leave the ones who find this stuff oppressive out in the cold. Feminism is about listening to and respecting the opinions of all women. If we only listened to a certain section of women's opinions, that wouldn't be equal, would it? You accused me of picking and choosing, but aren't you picking and choosing the feminist views you agree with? There is a huge portion of women who find this stuff degrading and as a feminist, you should consider their point of view with respect and without insults. If women find something degrading, trust me, there is a very good reason for that and it may have come from personal experience in some cases.

17 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

We don't have to agree on everything to be a feminist, but if you think a person voting against Parent Plannhood or women having equal rights is a feminist. You're obviously wrong. Plus, Strawberry Blonde said she was a "middle ground" feminist. Therefore, I guess in a sense I was right.

Here's something you don't seem to understand - all feminists agree about the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. There are a small amount who maybe don't think that women should be on the Pill or have sex before marriage and suchlike, but those ones usually only believe what they do because of religious and cultural differences and that has to be respected to an extent. But taking out cultural leanings, all feminists are on the same page when it comes to giving us rights and equality to men. The only thing that feminists notably disagree on is when the subject comes around to sex and sexual expression. There are feminists who think true feminists shouldn't wear heels and make up and suchlike (I'm NOT one of them) and don't support the sex industry (I'm one of them)...but then there are ones who think true feminists should look as hot as possible (I think this comes down to personal choice although I think a woman should at least try a glamorous option just to see what they think of it) and that they should support the sex industry (again, not one of them). All feminists know the topic of sex is very tricky terrain, even among other women. Our sexual experiences shape how a woman will regard sex within her personal brand of feminism and you have to respect that. What I'm sick of seeing is the pro-sex group laughing at and belittling the other side because they don't agree with them. They claim that they respect whatever a woman chooses to do but can't wait to tear down a woman for not thinking like them. They accuse us of trying to make everyone fall into line with our narrow view of sexuality but fail to see that they're doing exactly the same thing! You are 100% in your rights to be a male feminist but please take on board what a woman who has lived it is telling you.

2 hours ago, rpggal said:

When did I say you couldn't be a male feminist? I said that you are telling a woman who experiences sexism first-hand that her experiences are invalid, because you're able to "put yourself in women's shoes" better than she is able to live in them, I suppose? A man's imagined experiences are just as valuable as a woman's real ones, now? You can be a male feminist, but not by telling women that they are not being oppressed just because you don't see why something is oppressive. She finds the imagery in the video oppressive, you find it liberating, but guess what you're not a woman and you don't get to tell her what she should find liberating and what she should find oppressive. The liberation that you imagine for her isn't worth **** compared to the oppression she actually experiences. How is this any different than a man telling a woman not be offended by cat-calling or workplace harassment because she "should take it as a compliment"? Sorry, not every woman wants to see women's bodies commoditized for public consumption. Some women find that damaging and oppressive. You don't get to come in with zero first-hand experience and nothing on the line to tell them how to feel. 

I just want to say that you're awesome. That's one of the best defences of women I've ever seen. It's very rare for me to get such a level of defence like this personally too. I've seen you around sometimes but I've never spoken to you. I just want to let you know that what you said really touched me and made me want to cry in a good way. Thank God that people like you exist in a society that sees no problem with how women are portrayed in the media. People like you give me hope that a change will come one day.

2 hours ago, BrianxRyan said:

 

That gif in response to that highly emotional, on-point response that touches a lot of women's hearts says more about you than it does me or rpggal. Look, let me give you a scenario here. You admitted to me that you were black. I am white. How would you like it if I started telling you that a music video that contained damaging stereotypes of black people was just a bit of fun and should be liberating to your people? How would you like it if I told you what was the right and wrong way to support black civil rights? What if I told you to just accept the portrayals of blacks in society because they aren't going away anytime soon and if you just shut up about it, it would make you a progressive member of society? Now, I realise this is a very extreme example and I don't mean to cause any offence by it. But seriously, switching the situation around is the only way you'll get it. Blacks have been telling whites for years that they cannot imagine the oppression they go through and that whites have no right to dictate how they should be or try to dismiss their oppression. Well, that's how feminists feel when men try to tell them what they should do and how they should feel, when they try to dictate to them what is right and wrong way for a woman to be, try to dismiss their oppression. Do you get it now?

[Brian Ryan 1,468]

20 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Women were criticised for doing a bad job at whatever it was they were "doing" when they were fighting for the right to vote and suchlike. Men have criticised women's opinions forever and have tried to dictate whether what they're thinking is beneficial for society or not. Don't let the number of likes on the video fool you. If it had over 1 million likes vs. 50k dislikes, I could understand your point. But this is 300k+ likes vs 100k+ dislikes. That tells you that views are extremely divided and most people haven't even submitted an opinion. Every site that has run an article on this video is chock full of comments about how awful it is and how degrading it is to women and every comment has hundreds of thumbs up. It's just that the majority of them clearly didn't bother submitting a dislike. Just because the likes outnumber the dislikes (by a small margin) means nothing. I am not hating on Fergie for being a strong woman, but rather I'm disappointed in such a talented woman feeling the need to sexualise herself and others just for some much-needed attention. And that she doesn't seem to care if she perpetuates damaging stereotypes of women in doing so. Believe it or not, it doesn't all come down to jealousy. My views on women are not from the 60's and earlier, I support women's rights to be independent and express their sexuality, just in a way that isn't damaging. I don't really care what way you meant that I should shut up, telling someone to keep their opinion to themselves in any sense means the same thing. I find it mind-blowing that you can't seem to see why this video is so degrading to women when straight men can see why it is. Surely you don't think a video where women are making fellatio suggestions, covering themselves in milk in slow-motion (making ejaculation innuendos) and offering their services to men at "the dairy duchess love factory" and "working at your service" is a positive image of women? If they're bragging about how hard they work and how much money they earn, why are they not at a job in the video and why do they feel the need to offer services to men if they're so rich and independent? She actually says the lyric: "Me and my girls up in the club, hating ourselves but I don't give a f**k." I mean, did no one catch that? I had to rewind it several times to make sure I'd caught that. A song supposedly about the empowerment of women includes a bit about hating yourself but not caring? Is this a wind-up? 

Thing is, if you want to be a male feminist, you have to respect what the women are telling you. It's all very well to agree with the ones who find overt sexuality empowering but don't leave the ones who find this stuff oppressive out in the cold. Feminism is about listening to and respecting the opinions of all women. If we only listened to a certain section of women's opinions, that wouldn't be equal, would it? You accused me of picking and choosing, but aren't you picking and choosing the feminist views you agree with? There is a huge portion of women who find this stuff degrading and as a feminist, you should consider their point of view with respect and without insults. If women find something degrading, trust me, there is a very good reason for that and it may have come from personal experience in some cases.

Here's something you don't seem to understand - all feminists agree about the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. There are a small amount who maybe don't think that women should be on the Pill or have sex before marriage and suchlike, but those ones usually only believe what they do because of religious and cultural differences and that has to be respected to an extent. But taking out cultural leanings, all feminists are on the same page when it comes to giving us rights and equality to men. The only thing that feminists notably disagree on is when the subject comes around to sex and sexual expression. There are feminists who think true feminists shouldn't wear heels and make up and suchlike (I'm NOT one of them) and don't support the sex industry (I'm one of them)...but then there are ones who think true feminists should look as hot as possible (I think this comes down to personal choice although I think a woman should at least try a glamorous option just to see what they think of it) and that they should support the sex industry (again, not one of them). All feminists know the topic of sex is very tricky terrain, even among other women. Our sexual experiences shape how a woman will regard sex within her personal brand of feminism and you have to respect that. What I'm sick of seeing is the pro-sex group laughing at and belittling the other side because they don't agree with them. They claim that they respect whatever a woman chooses to do but can't wait to tear down a woman for not thinking like them. They accuse us of trying to make everyone fall into line with our narrow view of sexuality but fail to see that they're doing exactly the same thing! You are 100% in your rights to be a male feminist but please take on board what a woman who has lived it is telling you.

I just want to say that you're awesome. That's one of the best defences of women I've ever seen. It's very rare for me to get such a level of defence like this personally too. I've seen you around sometimes but I've never spoken to you. I just want to let you know that what you said really touched me and made me want to cry in a good way. Thank God that people like you exist in a society that sees no problem with how women are portrayed in the media. People like you give me hope that a change will come one day.

That gif in response to that highly emotional, on-point response that touches a lot of women's hearts says more about you than it does me or rpggal. Look, let me give you a scenario here. You admitted to me that you were black. I am white. How would you like it if I started telling you that a music video that contained damaging stereotypes of black people was just a bit of fun and should be liberating to your people? How would you like it if I told you what was the right and wrong way to support black civil rights? What if I told you to just accept the portrayals of blacks in society because they aren't going away anytime soon and if you just shut up about it, it would make you a progressive member of society? Now, I realise this is a very extreme example and I don't mean to cause any offence by it. But seriously, switching the situation around is the only way you'll get it. Blacks have been telling whites for years that they cannot imagine the oppression they go through and that whites have no right to dictate how they should be or try to dismiss their oppression. Well, that's how feminists feel when men try to tell them what they should do and how they should feel, when they try to dictate to them what is right and wrong way for a woman to be, try to dismiss their oppression. Do you get it now?

 

This how I feel and how Fergie feels.

 

[rpggal 332]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Women were criticised for doing a bad job at whatever it was they were "doing" when they were fighting for the right to vote and suchlike. Men have criticised women's opinions forever and have tried to dictate whether what they're thinking is beneficial for society or not. Don't let the number of likes on the video fool you. If it had over 1 million likes vs. 50k dislikes, I could understand your point. But this is 300k+ likes vs 100k+ dislikes. That tells you that views are extremely divided and most people haven't even submitted an opinion. Every site that has run an article on this video is chock full of comments about how awful it is and how degrading it is to women and every comment has hundreds of thumbs up. It's just that the majority of them clearly didn't bother submitting a dislike. Just because the likes outnumber the dislikes (by a small margin) means nothing. I am not hating on Fergie for being a strong woman, but rather I'm disappointed in such a talented woman feeling the need to sexualise herself and others just for some much-needed attention. And that she doesn't seem to care if she perpetuates damaging stereotypes of women in doing so. Believe it or not, it doesn't all come down to jealousy. My views on women are not from the 60's and earlier, I support women's rights to be independent and express their sexuality, just in a way that isn't damaging. I don't really care what way you meant that I should shut up, telling someone to keep their opinion to themselves in any sense means the same thing. I find it mind-blowing that you can't seem to see why this video is so degrading to women when straight men can see why it is. Surely you don't think a video where women are making fellatio suggestions, covering themselves in milk in slow-motion (making ejaculation innuendos) and offering their services to men at "the dairy duchess love factory" and "working at your service" is a positive image of women? If they're bragging about how hard they work and how much money they earn, why are they not at a job in the video and why do they feel the need to offer services to men if they're so rich and independent? She actually says the lyric: "Me and my girls up in the club, hating ourselves but I don't give a f**k." I mean, did no one catch that? I had to rewind it several times to make sure I'd caught that. A song supposedly about the empowerment of women includes a bit about hating yourself but not caring? Is this a wind-up? 

Thing is, if you want to be a male feminist, you have to respect what the women are telling you. It's all very well to agree with the ones who find overt sexuality empowering but don't leave the ones who find this stuff oppressive out in the cold. Feminism is about listening to and respecting the opinions of all women. If we only listened to a certain section of women's opinions, that wouldn't be equal, would it? You accused me of picking and choosing, but aren't you picking and choosing the feminist views you agree with? There is a huge portion of women who find this stuff degrading and as a feminist, you should consider their point of view with respect and without insults. If women find something degrading, trust me, there is a very good reason for that and it may have come from personal experience in some cases.

Here's something you don't seem to understand - all feminists agree about the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. There are a small amount who maybe don't think that women should be on the Pill or have sex before marriage and suchlike, but those ones usually only believe what they do because of religious and cultural differences and that has to be respected to an extent. But taking out cultural leanings, all feminists are on the same page when it comes to giving us rights and equality to men. The only thing that feminists notably disagree on is when the subject comes around to sex and sexual expression. There are feminists who think true feminists shouldn't wear heels and make up and suchlike (I'm NOT one of them) and don't support the sex industry (I'm one of them)...but then there are ones who think true feminists should look as hot as possible (I think this comes down to personal choice although I think a woman should at least try a glamorous option just to see what they think of it) and that they should support the sex industry (again, not one of them). All feminists know the topic of sex is very tricky terrain, even among other women. Our sexual experiences shape how a woman will regard sex within her personal brand of feminism and you have to respect that. What I'm sick of seeing is the pro-sex group laughing at and belittling the other side because they don't agree with them. They claim that they respect whatever a woman chooses to do but can't wait to tear down a woman for not thinking like them. They accuse us of trying to make everyone fall into line with our narrow view of sexuality but fail to see that they're doing exactly the same thing! You are 100% in your rights to be a male feminist but please take on board what a woman who has lived it is telling you.

I just want to say that you're awesome. That's one of the best defences of women I've ever seen. It's very rare for me to get such a level of defence like this personally too. I've seen you around sometimes but I've never spoken to you. I just want to let you know that what you said really touched me and made me want to cry in a good way. Thank God that people like you exist in a society that sees no problem with how women are portrayed in the media. People like you give me hope that a change will come one day.

That gif in response to that highly emotional, on-point response that touches a lot of women's hearts says more about you than it does me or rpggal. Look, let me give you a scenario here. You admitted to me that you were black. I am white. How would you like it if I started telling you that a music video that contained damaging stereotypes of black people was just a bit of fun and should be liberating to your people? How would you like it if I told you what was the right and wrong way to support black civil rights? What if I told you to just accept the portrayals of blacks in society because they aren't going away anytime soon and if you just shut up about it, it would make you a progressive member of society? Now, I realise this is a very extreme example and I don't mean to cause any offence by it. But seriously, switching the situation around is the only way you'll get it. Blacks have been telling whites for years that they cannot imagine the oppression they go through and that whites have no right to dictate how they should be or try to dismiss their oppression. Well, that's how feminists feel when men try to tell them what they should do and how they should feel, when they try to dictate to them what is right and wrong way for a woman to be, try to dismiss their oppression. Do you get it now?

 I'm glad my comment touched you that way. I commented mostly because I can't stand to see someone come from a place of privilege and tell someone else how to feel, what's "really" good for them. But also I do think it's one of the most depressing and dehumanizing experiences of being a woman to grow into your body in a society that constantly reduces your worth to your sexuality, and at the same time makes even that worthless by flooding the culture with hypersexualized images everywhere you look. Men grow up feeling entitled to women's bodies because, after all, they've been cheap commodities available at the click of a button their whole lives. They grow up seeing the female body as an object that exists for their pleasure, rather than a person with her own character, values, beliefs, goals. It can make you feel absolutely worthless, and honestly invisible. The person never to be seen behind the body. I'm happy that a lot of women don't feel that way simply because it is such an awful feeling that you can't rightfully wish it on others. But at the same time I wish they wouldn't participate in the flood of this imagery that primes men's minds to by default see us as objects. 

[DeepPurple 16]

#JonKortajarena ftw!!!!!!! 😍

[Miel 15,009]

It's a cute video. It's fun, nice color palette, and the milk man was cute.

That said, there are a lot of things that can be analyzed as more perpetuating of particular stereotypes, as opposed to subverting. Sometimes there is a thin line, and this time around I don't know if there was any particularly progressive critique in the video.

[James19709 456]

On 7/1/2016 at 11:07 PM, PunkTheFunk said:

Amy Schumer ha impact

 

I thought of this too, was looking at the comments to see anybody saying it but nope. In all honesty, this song and video is tragic. Bitch, you look like you're an escort looking for a sponsor.

[James19709 456]

Fergie's about three bad songs off of becoming almost as annoying as Iggy.