Fans dragging fans, my thoughts...

[MaryJaneHolland 77,348]

Why does everyone hate MDNA? 

[ReidOne 12,427]

Just now, MaryJaneHolland said:

Why does everyone hate MDNA? 

"Girl Gone Wild" is one of my all-time favorite Madonna tunes. Madonna + Benny Benassi. What more can you ask for in life?? 

[ReidOne 12,427]

5 minutes ago, Bebe said:

In my opinion, the real divide in the fanbase right now comes from two camps.

Camp #1 want RedOne. They want TF/M Gaga back. A lot of them really care about sales and Gaga being #1 and believe that RedOne will deliver that. Some of this group don't feel that way but do love the electro-pop sound that Gaga rose to fame with. They want the visuals and the sound of Bad Romance. They want the catchy pop hits and want Gaga to be the biggest pop star in the world. For this camp, Gaga's polished and perfect slick pop side is what appeals to them. They are not generally here for the Jazz performances and covers that she has delivered of late.

Camp #2 want change. They probably loved TF/TFM/BTW and maybe even ARTPOP/C2C but they want something different. They are more into the idea of Ronson rather than RedOne. This group isn't necessarily as chart obsessive as many in the other camp, what they want from her is to expand herself musically. They don't want more electro-pop, they are ready for Gaga to go the Bowie or Madonna route and continue to morph and evolve into completely different sounds and aesthetics. For this camp, Gaga's potential is exciting and they want her to explore all aspects of her talent. They see her cover Sting, Stevie, Bowie, John Lennon and a wealth of Jazz artists and think about how diverse her music could be.

Both camps are justified in feeling that way. For camp #1, they fell in love with a particular Gaga and want to hold onto that version. For camp #2, they see Gaga cite these transforming artists as inspiration, see her constantly changing her looks and see her tribute a whole range of musical artists.


One of those camps is going to be disappointed and right now it seems like it will be camp one. Unfortunately for you it also seems like you may be in camp one. You have every right to be disappointed and it's understandable that fans like you want TFM type albums, but with quotes like this:

"what made me love her back in the day was the pop product, The Fame-Monster, Born This Way, so it's normal that I feel weird if she's now releasing another jazz album or making alternative music or whatever, it's not the thing I love the most from her."

It might also be good to prepare yourself for the possibility that the pop product that you fell in love with might not be the direction Gaga wants to go anymore. It's okay and understandable to be upset at that, but at some point you need to let go. When you say things like

"And these new fans from the ARTPOP era... i don't know because I've been here since Just Dance, but I don't see the "new fans" knowing Gaga as much as older fans, and becoming a fan with the worst product the artist's had doesn't let you appreciate how precious her past works were "

You imply that what YOU like from Gaga is inherently better, represents her better and that these new fans that like something else from Gaga don't get her like you do. The problem with this is that if Gaga keeps steering away from the direction that you like then eventually you will only like a minority of her body of work. You might still say that her earliest work is her best work, but the fans that remain and see something else in her would argue that it's YOU who doesn't recognise how precious her current work is.

Is there a point where you can no longer call yourself a Lady Gaga fan? I mean, many Bowie fans might have loved Ziggy Stardust but hated The Thin White Duke and everything that followed. Surely then you can say you are a fan of Bowie's Ziggy era, but it's harder to say you are a fan of his body of work.

At this point I don't think you can really argue that though. If you are a Lady Gaga fan then you most likely identify with the electro-pop sound that has dominated her career so far. Not liking C2C doesn't make you a fake fan, but it might be an indicator that what you want from her might not match up with what Gaga wants to create going forward.

Nailed it.

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

15 minutes ago, Bebe said:

In my opinion, the real divide in the fanbase right now comes from two camps.

Camp #1 want RedOne. They want TF/M Gaga back. A lot of them really care about sales and Gaga being #1 and believe that RedOne will deliver that. Some of this group don't feel that way but do love the electro-pop sound that Gaga rose to fame with. They want the visuals and the sound of Bad Romance. They want the catchy pop hits and want Gaga to be the biggest pop star in the world. For this camp, Gaga's polished and perfect slick pop side is what appeals to them. They are not generally here for the Jazz performances and covers that she has delivered of late.

Camp #2 want change. They probably loved TF/TFM/BTW and maybe even ARTPOP/C2C but they want something different. They are more into the idea of Ronson rather than RedOne. This group isn't necessarily as chart obsessive as many in the other camp, what they want from her is to expand herself musically. They don't want more electro-pop, they are ready for Gaga to go the Bowie or Madonna route and continue to morph and evolve into completely different sounds and aesthetics. For this camp, Gaga's potential is exciting and they want her to explore all aspects of her talent. They see her cover Sting, Stevie, Bowie, John Lennon and a wealth of Jazz artists and think about how diverse her music could be.

Both camps are justified in feeling that way. For camp #1, they fell in love with a particular Gaga and want to hold onto that version. For camp #2, they see Gaga cite these transforming artists as inspiration, see her constantly changing her looks and see her tribute a whole range of musical artists.


One of those camps is going to be disappointed and right now it seems like it will be camp one. Unfortunately for you it also seems like you may be in camp one. You have every right to be disappointed and it's understandable that fans like you want TFM type albums, but with quotes like this:

"what made me love her back in the day was the pop product, The Fame-Monster, Born This Way, so it's normal that I feel weird if she's now releasing another jazz album or making alternative music or whatever, it's not the thing I love the most from her."

It might also be good to prepare yourself for the possibility that the pop product that you fell in love with might not be the direction Gaga wants to go anymore. It's okay and understandable to be upset at that, but at some point you need to let go. When you say things like

"And these new fans from the ARTPOP era... i don't know because I've been here since Just Dance, but I don't see the "new fans" knowing Gaga as much as older fans, and becoming a fan with the worst product the artist's had doesn't let you appreciate how precious her past works were "

You imply that what YOU like from Gaga is inherently better, represents her better and that these new fans that like something else from Gaga don't get her like you do. The problem with this is that if Gaga keeps steering away from the direction that you like then eventually you will only like a minority of her body of work. You might still say that her earliest work is her best work, but the fans that remain and see something else in her would argue that it's YOU who doesn't recognise how precious her current work is.

Is there a point where you can no longer call yourself a Lady Gaga fan? I mean, many Bowie fans might have loved Ziggy Stardust but hated The Thin White Duke and everything that followed. Surely then you can say you are a fan of Bowie's Ziggy era, but it's harder to say you are a fan of his body of work.

At this point I don't think you can really argue that though. If you are a Lady Gaga fan then you most likely identify with the electro-pop sound that has dominated her career so far. Not liking C2C doesn't make you a fake fan, but it might be an indicator that what you want from her might not match up with what Gaga wants to create going forward.

I would be completely pleased if LG5 followed some I Want Your Love disco queen 70s 80s vibes. I couldn't get more excited when we learned that Rodgers, Moroder, Garibay were on the project, so I'm not in any side hahaha i don't know what to expect from Ronson and I don't want her to work with RedOnd forever. Of course I want her to go further and be all new! But she can be new doing some disco and some rock tracks that I'd like, or she could do something like Ronson's latest song and it would leave me broken. And still I am a Gaga fan because it's not that i hate CTC or ARTPOP but it's just that I don't like them as much as I like BTW or TF.  I want her to change, one can change but not that much. Every Madonna album is different and I like them all (except Music lmao).

[froot 659]

Honestly just last year I got into Madonna, loads of people on the Madonna forums know this and still treat me as a normal fan.

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

35 minutes ago, froot said:

Honestly just last year I got into Madonna, loads of people on the Madonna forums know this and still treat me as a normal fan.

I have never treated anyone in a special way, it was just an example

[eifulien 2,954]

@KURUSHITOVSKA I agree on some parts with the OP but also disagree. I totally get your feeling about being an older fan compared to ARTPOP fans. You have the bigger knowledge and memories so in your eyes you've been her through a lot more than we, ARTPOP stans, have. However, never underestimate the (objective, non-intrusive) ARTPOP fans. Main reason being - we liked Gaga when even her fans stopped doing so. Picking someone from the mud, and falling in love with someone at their worst creates ALSO a very special connection with the person. . Yes it's different to your "Just Dance" kind of connection. But let me tell you - I'd also queue next to you and say the same exact words, but instead of holding The Fame, I'd be holding ARTPOP. And these don't invalidate our opinions or strengths of being fans. It doesn't make one superior to the other. We just liked her in different phases. And as long as we respect each other's points, I think the fanbase as divided as it is, can perfectly co-exist. [Here it's good to point out that LG5 will be a test for many of us as well, for the first time. I'm curious to see how AP stans will treat the LG5 stans]

Also, feeling disappointed, skipping some eras - it's alright. When our fave is such a versatile multi-talent, it's impossible to like absolutely everything with the same level of passion and excitement. But as sad as it may seem, we just can't expect her to keep delivering more from what YOU, I, SHE, HE, etc. fell in love with in the first place. It doesn't do her justice. I'm confident she will feel nostalgic some day and release something in the vein of TF/TFM, but I doubt it will be as soon as LG5 (although we now know she was going to, judging by RedOne collab).

I think it's easier to be open-minded and just wait for her to deliver, instead of create false expectations and hopes. You will always have the memories of TF/TFM slayage. I will always have the nostalgia of ARTPOP slayage (yeah I know it's strange to put it that way, but from my pov, ARTPOP was much more than I'd hoped for, since I wasn't aware of the drama, the expectations and everything pre-AP. It was me and the music and it remains to this day, 3 years later, one of a kind experience).

[Schwerk 7,243]

Ranking fandom is unnecessary, unfair and impossible if you ask me. 

It's not a competition, it's a deeply personal experience, so try not to compare yourself to other fans. Take Gaga herself for example. Does she have a room fillled with Bowie posters, check a fan site daily and camp out for concerts (even if she weren't famous ) NO. She not that type of person. But that doesn't mean she's not a big fan.

You can just love one album to death but still be a big fan. You can have a huge collection of stuff, or just a few downloaded cds. There are hundreds of reasons to like the multitalent that is Gaga, therefor there are hundreds of different types of fans. I think there should be more respect in general among fans. Don't act jealous, don't dismiss those that are new, just get together and enjoy your idols work. 

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

7 minutes ago, Marjol said:

Ranking fandom is unnecessary, unfair and impossible if you ask me. 

It's not a competition, it's a deeply personal experience, so try not to compare yourself to other fans. Take Gaga herself for example. Does she have a room fillled with Bowie posters, check a fan site daily and camp out for concerts (even if she weren't famous ) NO. She not that type of person. But that doesn't mean she's not a big fan.

You can just love one album to death but still be a big fan. You can have a huge collection of stuff, or just a few downloaded cds. There are hundreds of reasons to like the multitalent that is Gaga, therefor there are hundreds of different types of fans. I think there should be more respect in general among fans. Don't act jealous, don't dismiss those that are new, just get together and enjoy your idols work. 

As I said before in some comments and on the OP, it was just an easy example, I don't like comparing fans, but anyway, those who call others "fake fans" for disliking anything are also comparing.   

[djBuffoon 12,115]

5 hours ago, ReidOne said:

The Fame = here for it

The Fame Monster = here for it

Born This Way = here for it

ARTPOP = here for it

Cheek to Cheek = here for it

American Horror Story = here for it

Oscars/Sound of Music + Super Bowl/National Anthem = here for it

...she can pretty much do no wrong in my eyes. Been here since '08 and still giving me life. 

My thoughts exactly. Been here from the very beginning and she hasn't let me down yet. 

[Schwerk 7,243]

48 minutes ago, KURUSHITOVSKA said:

As I said before in some comments and on the OP, it was just an easy example, I don't like comparing fans, but anyway, those who call others "fake fans" for disliking anything are also comparing.   

I get what your saying in the OP, but I don't think it's an easy example because you used a very lengthy post to explain it I agree calling others fake fans is also comparing, but I feel similar when you say you know Gaga better than an ARTPOP stan because you've been around longer. That's not true in every case. I know early adopters that have a very 'superficial' love for her (just enjoy the music) and ARTPOP fans that love her to death. So that's why I say comparing is useless. 

[Manul 7,377]

ARTPOP is not her worst product in any way shape or form. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is. I could go the same route and say the same about The Fame, and unlike you, I have receipts to prove that - she has not revisited its music style, the singing style or the visuals in any way since then.

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

20 minutes ago, Love Drought said:

ARTPOP is not her worst product in any way shape or form. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it is. I could go the same route and say the same about The Fame, and unlike you, I have receipts to prove that - she has not revisited its music style, the singing style or the visuals in any way since then.

The Fame didn't have 3 recycled instrumentals from previous projects, pitched vocals, only 2 properly released singles... The Fame as a product it's one of her best along with BTW. Just Dance, Poker Face, LoveGame, Paparazzi, Eh Eh, Beautiful Dirty Rich, all can take a **** on ARTPOP tbh

[PopThatArt 2,193]

7 hours ago, KURUSHITOVSKA said:

This is a comment that I made on another post but I really think it expresses very well the current situation with those called "fake fans" or whatever they're called by other fans.

Being a fan is not about licking her ass, it's about following her through her trip. I've known many fans from 2008 that left her when ARTPOP happened because they couldn't see Gaga doing that and they just didn't like it but they did go to the artRAVE and still love her somehow. And I have also seen many new fans from the ARTPOP era that "omg i love her to death". I think the first case is more a real fan than the second (they're just examples!!!), because Gaga wasn't at her best during ARTPOP and she knows that, they still love her, but they didn't like that era. Would you stan her if she stopped making music forever and decided to become an full-time actress? I wouldn't, because I loved something from her that kept me with her, but she left it. And these new fans from the ARTPOP era... i don't know because I've been here since Just Dance, but I don't see the "new fans" knowing Gaga as much as older fans, and becoming a fan with the worst product the artist's had doesn't let you appreciate how precious her past works were (i'm not saying ARTPOP was that bad, but it's an example). I didn't like CTC, I didn't like ARTPOP at first, like only 50% of the album, and I'm still getting new collectible things everyday and I can't stop loving her because I know how is it like being an artist and I love her beliefs, some people believe in God and I believe in Gaga... I want her to do what she wants and needs to do, but if I don't like some product she's giving, of course I will complain. And I said complain like "i don't like this, I hate this...", not dragging her and say "she's over". CTC really saved her life and career and I can appreciate that, but what I loved from my idol and what made me love her back in the day was the pop product, The Fame-Monster, Born This Way, so it's normal that I feel weird if she's now releasing another jazz album or making alternative music or whatever, it's not the thing I love the most from her. And I'm not here to be told by other fans that I'm a fake fan because "I hated CTC", because that is something no one has the right to judge, and as I said, it doesn't make me stop loving her as an artist and as a human being.

Have you ever heard about the MDNA issue? A friend of mine is 45 and is a Madonna fan since the 80s. He has like hundreds of things, has attended ALL her tours, but Madonna released MDNA and he hated the album because he didn't feel like the album completed her quality standards and it wasn't something that he expected from her. Same happened with Evita. He still loves her, he attended the tour because he loves her, and still got the album. He's been loving the Rebel Heart era and the album and is still a fan, but hates MDNA, does this make him a fake fan after 30 years? I say no.

If I ever have the chance to meet Gaga, i would give her my The Fame vinyl, and tell her: You know why I love this record so much? Because you had the hability to conquer the world with your very first song. I understand that as an artist you need to move on and the trip is never stopping, that's why I'm here yet, but this made me love you and your way of making art and the love you have for it is keeping me here.

Fake fan is what I call someone who only supports Gaga when she has a number one and then disappear when she doesn't, or if she isn't doing pop, just like they disappeared during Cheek To Cheek and when ARTPOP didn't stay number one for a number of weeks. It is fake to only support someone when they are successful. What else is it? 

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

5 minutes ago, PopThatArt said:

Fake fan is what I call someone who only supports Gaga when she has a number one and then disappear when she doesn't, or if she isn't doing pop, just like they disappeared during Cheek To Cheek and when ARTPOP didn't stay number one for a number of weeks. It is fake to only support someone when they are successful. What else is it? 

That's what I would call a fake fan too, I wouldn't be calling someone fake fan just because they don't like any concrete thing, as I've seen here many times. Many people didn't like CTC but still here, it's just because of their taste. Only an album won't make me stop loving an artist...