Who is a bigger Superstar? Gaga or Beyonce?

[JDi 1,495]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Thanks for the advice, but I sure don't wanna learn from you

well, cognitive dissonance is a thing after all.

[Didymus 32,927]

5 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

You doubt it? 

Yes there was another way to interpret it. Literally. Not every remark made has implicature. What's odd is that it contained a slew of praises for her. Also talking about race isn't racist. I also have never made comments on this issue that would make me believably biased.

I'd like to know why you think gay men being drawn to Beyonce due to her powerful persona is an inherently bad thing.

Because by saying that you are denying that gay men can love her for any other reason than their "natural inclinations" (which is almost the same as saying that all Beyoncé praise here isn't objectively valid since it derives from an uncontrollable bias).

Besides, as I said, this forum has been generally negative about Beyoncé, which any casual lurker would know, which made me suspicious. A third reason: her work is acknowledged and praised by a group of people far extending gay men. In the context of this thread, it seemed that you were implying that Beyoncé can only be appreciated by gay men (hence "not surprised").

It's just an off comment and I think you know damn well why I replied to it the way I did. The only way I or anyone else I consider mentally ordinary could've read that reply in the way you present it now is if they didn't read the thread title. Gaga's not far behind in the poll yet I haven't seen you make a comment about how that's not surprising since gay men are naturally drawn to fierce women regardless of their skin color.

[Didymus 32,927]

5 minutes ago, JDi said:

yeah, like that one where I didn't say Gaga was bigger touring force than Madonna. or the one where you mentioned the hermaphrodite rumours, like it's not complete idiots who still believe this, while it's sensible people who associate Beyonce with thigh dancing. or the rest which were basically you going on and on about tour numbers.

you have to try even harder and I don't. that's sweet.

Honey, this thread is about GAGA vs. BEYONCE! If you're gonna bring up that Beyoncé is not as successful as I'm pretending she is because she hasn't outsold Madonna, then obviously I'm gonna bring up the fact that Gaga hasn't either and that, thus, the argument you're bringing is 100% irrelevant for this thread

I also don't believe anyone would sincerely associate Beyoncé with "high dancing" in a serious way Sure, it's the first thing that can come to mind, but are you denying that among the first thing that comes to people's minds when they hear the name "Lady Gaga" could be the fact that there was a rumor that she had a ****? I remember everyone talking about that, and I don't recall anyone ever discussing Beyoncé's thigh movements, so I do believe that's not a completely hollow argument. Besides, I only brought it up because people's popular associations don't matter ****.

I only began about tour numbers because you said she wasn't big outside the US and she hadn't had a show with a bigger attendance/gross than Gaga. Obviously very specific and I knew I could disprove that, so why shouldn't I have?

[Didymus 32,927]

8 minutes ago, JDi said:

well, cognitive dissonance is a thing after all.

lmfao

Lovely, you don't even know what the fancy words you're using mean.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

9 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Because by saying that you are denying that gay men can love her for any other reason than their "natural inclinations" (which is almost the same as saying that all Beyoncé praise here isn't objectively valid since it derives from an uncontrollable bias).

Besides, as I said, this forum has been generally negative about Beyoncé, which any casual lurker would know, which made me suspicious. A third reason: her work is acknowledged and praised by a group of people far extending gay men. In the context of this thread, it seemed that you were implying that Beyoncé can only be appreciated by gay men (hence "not surprised").

It's just an off comment and I think you know damn well why I replied to it the way I did. The only way I or anyone else I consider mentally ordinary could've read that reply in the way you present it now is if they didn't read the thread title. Gaga's not far behind in the poll yet I haven't seen you make a comment about how that's not surprising since gay men are naturally drawn to fierce women regardless of their skin color.

Saying that gay men are drawn towards her does not imply that it's the only reason nor does it imply that they necessarily enjoy her music. If you don't understand how intertwined gay and black culture are in the USA then that's your failing not mine. Where do you think ATRL lingo came from? Drag Queens and big black women.

I'm not surprised because I know that is the case. Should I be surprised given that I hold a viewpoint.

It seems you don't understand semantics and are just trying to rationalize your response despite it being clearly out of place and out of line.

I don't have to make a comparison to Gaga when I didn't even mention her. I didn't even vote on the poll. I can easily make a statement like "Gay men are drawn to Gaga because of her pro-gay messages" or "Gay men are drawn to her because she's italian" but I didn't because I didn't. 

The fact that you're making a huge deal out of this trivial issue is odd I have to say.

[Didymus 32,927]

13 minutes ago, PopThatArt said:

"endlessly captivate", I laugh. She hasn't captivated me, ever. And I think it says more about society than Beyonce, what society adheres to these days is slop and mess, everyone has become so uncultured and Beyonce is the epitome of a lack of culture. She may be big in America but that's it. American media latch on to her because she's one of the only black female artists in the game, they feel obligated to report about her and be inclusive and not appear racist. They over exaggerate her contributions to culture and music. And also, it wasn't until beyonce appeared in Telephone that she started to get attention from the younger generation, and people like to use chart positions of singles as a determining factor of greatness and superstardom, but look at Beyonce, musically, only one or two of the dozen or so singles she has released cracked the top 20 in the past decade. Musically, her impact is slim to nil, she's done nothing to innovate culture the way Gaga has. 

If she's only big in America why is she outselling Gaga in Europe? Like why is that argument still standing? She's doing an all-stadium world tour and has been getting more tour success every single time outside of the US Meanwhile, Gaga had to give up playing in stadiums (unless you want to count the one in Greece in 2014, which I'm sure you don't) while Beyoncé updated all her arenas to them. Don't blame me or Beyoncé for that, that's just the way it is.

I never spoke about how she contributed to culture or music, so I don't get why you had to reply to me about that. This isn't about that, it's about who's the biggest superstar, I don't get why that's so hard for people to understand. You have your own criteria for what that word means, I have my own, it ends there. You don't need to try to convince me, just post your opinion on your own next time, I have nothing to say about it.

[JDi 1,495]

Just now, Didymus said:

Honey, this thread is about GAGA vs. BEYONCE! If you're gonna bring up that Beyoncé is not as successful as I'm pretending she is because she hasn't outsold Madonna, then obviously I'm gonna bring up the fact that Gaga hasn't either and that, thus, the argument you're bringing is 100% irrelevant for this thread

I also don't believe anyone would sincerely associate Beyoncé with "high dancing" in a serious way Sure, it's the first thing that can come to mind, but are you denying that among the first thing that comes to people's minds when they hear the name "Lady Gaga" could be the fact that there was a rumor that she had a ****? I remember everyone talking about that, and I don't recall anyone ever discussing Beyoncé's thigh movements, so I do believe that's not a completely hollow argument. Besides, I only brought it up because people's popular associations don't matter ****.

I only began about tour numbers because you said she wasn't big outside the US and she hadn't had a show with a bigger attendance/gross than Gaga. Obviously very specific and I knew I could disprove that, so why shouldn't I have?

yeah, as superstars. and I said Gaga is a better superstar than Beyoncé.

too bored of your rhetoric to read the rest. take it as a win. you enjoy winning arguments with word count rather than substance it seems.

[JDi 1,495]

8 minutes ago, Didymus said:

lmfao

Lovely, you don't even know what the fancy words you're using mean.

mmm is this a fancy word to you? aww

and I know damn well what it means. you know, like everything psychological, it's broader than the definition you looked up. and precisely because it's cognitive dissonance I said you have to come to my conclusions on your own.

[teo 609]

 

 

5 hours ago, Didymus said:

Bey. She managed to endlessly captivate her audiences for nearly two decades, tour success is growing, critical acclaim is growing, still an unparallelled ****ing monster on stage,... I mean, just imagine Bey and Gaga walking next to each other on the street. Who would you be most starstruck by? That's right.

If you had asked me in 2008-09 tho

Edit: Apparently some people are convinced they'd be more starstruck by Gaga (sadly we can't put that theory to the test), so I take back my admittedly poor phrasing. It's just my imagination, I'd be far more shocked and in awe of the fact that I was in the presence of Bey than Gaga.

I'll go to Gaga and I won't even look at Beyonce.  But that's not really the question here.

 

Right now Beyonce is the biggest star in America and there's no denying that. And the rest of the world doesn't really care about them both. Like I can't remember the last time when Beyonce had a hit in Europe and we all that it has been ages since that happen to Gaga also.

[Didymus 32,927]

2 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

Saying that gay men are drawn towards her does not imply that it's the only reason nor does it imply that they necessarily enjoy her music. If you don't understand how intertwined gay and black culture are in the USA then that's your failing not mine. Where do you think ATRL lingo came from? Drag Queens and big black women.

Who the **** cares about any of that, you're not even from the US, neither am I, and there's no way you checked everyone's profile in here to make sure there was a US majority in here You were talking about this thread and the specific praise we were giving which didn't even ****ing have anything to do with more than the superiority of her sales and her dancing Didn't know those two topics were intertwined with black culture.

4 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

It seems you don't understand semantics and are just trying to rationalize your response despite it being clearly out of place and out of line.

I don't have to make a comparison to Gaga when I didn't even mention her. I don't even have to vote. I can easily make a statement like "Gay men are drawn to Gaga because of her pro-gay messages" or "Gay men are drawn to her because she's italian" but I didn't because I didn't. 

The fact that you're making a huge deal out of this trivial issue is odd I have to say.

It isn't odd because I explained exactly why I responded the way I did: I thought you were being dismissive of Beyoncé, her fans, this thread and being borderline racist. I already said it was possible you really mean what you're saying now (which, if I may, can be translated as: "I didn't give a **** about what this thread is about, I just posted something random about what I thought about gay people and their appreciation of Beyoncé" - the randomness of which only justifies my original point: there's no way I would expect that from you, which is why I read more into your post than you claim there is in it now), but that I didn't really believe you, and also stated my reasons why.

Could've ended there, but you keep insisting there's nothing wrong about what you wrote and that my response was the one that's out of order. Fair enough, I don't care, I tried to explain what I thought and then I responded to an explicit question from you: "why was it wrong of me to post that" (peraphrasing). And of course, predictably, after answering that question you're now accusing me of spinning everything out of proportion and making a big deal out of it, well sorry dude, I won't reply to your questions in the future then

Or your comments in general

[Aga Gydal 3,133]

Beyonce's reached a threshold of fame this year that I think places her well above all her contemporaries. 

So yeah she's way bigger than Gaga is, and Gaga isn't second place either. I think some stans in here need to get some perspective. Gaga lost her place when she over-exposed herself and then completely under-delivered in 2013. Beyonce on the other hand changed the dynamic with Self-Titled, and this year trumped all of her peers on both quality and creativity. We love Gaga for her brassy boldness, but Lemonade delivered that in spades. 

If Gaga delivers a hugely successful album campaign this time and manages to top it again with LG6 then we can talk. Til then, I'd place her somewhere near or behind Rihanna, who's behind Katy, who's behind Taylor, who's behind Bey. Adele's probably around too. 

[LUO YI 6,089]

Some of you saying this is for talk **** about Gaga when to be honest is the truth.

But I'll say "Let's wait for LG5" too

By now it's Beyoncé 

[Raikou 1,169]

Beyonce, obviously!

Gaga's had her time at the very top, but she rose and fell so quickly, it couldn't be sustained.

[JDi 1,495]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Who the **** cares about any of that, you're not even from the US, neither am I, and there's no way you checked everyone's profile in here to make sure there was a US majority in here You were talking about this thread and the specific praise we were giving which didn't even ****ing have anything to do with more than the superiority of her sales and her dancing Didn't know those two topics were intertwined with black culture.

It isn't odd because I explained exactly why I responded the way I did: I thought you were being dismissive of Beyoncé, her fans, this thread and being borderline racist. I already said it was possible you really mean what you're saying now (which, if I may, can be translated as: "I didn't give a **** about what this thread is about, I just posted something random about what I thought about gay people and their appreciation of Beyoncé" - the randomness of which only justifies my original point: there's no way I would expect that from you, which is why I read more into your post than you claim there is in it now), but that I didn't really believe you, and also stated my reasons why.

Could've ended there, but you keep insisting there's nothing wrong about what you wrote and that my response was the one that's out of order. Fair enough, I don't care, I tried to explain what I thought and then I responded to an explicit question from you: "why was it wrong of me to post that" (peraphrasing). And of course, predictably, after answering that question you're now accusing me of spinning everything out of proportion and making a big deal out of it, well sorry dude, I won't reply to your questions in the future then

Or your comments in general

boy, are you wind...

[teo 609]

1 minute ago, Prince Bananas said:

Some of you saying this is for talk **** about Gaga when to be honest is the truth.

But I'll say "Let's wait for LG5" too

By now it's Beyoncé

Yeah this thread is kind of pointless. Like if they both released albums at the same time it would make more sense to compare them like this, even thought it'll still be unnecessary.