Who is a bigger Superstar? Gaga or Beyonce?

[Didymus 34,379]

6 minutes ago, JDi said:

she still hasn't had a higher grossing or more attended tour than Gaga and Madonna. her tickets are more expensive. the countries she visits are way less. the rest of my answer to how she sells can be considered racist.

I don't get why on earth that's a good argument when she's about to have the biggest, highest-grossing tour of her career Her global tour success is rising, unlike Gaga's. That's not an argument to cast aside. If she manages to sell out the stadiums on her next tour, she will be outselling Gaga's most successful tour with just 40 dates compared to 200+. Not even your lousy "Gaga charges less for tickets" (which is only really applicable to artRAVE) can compete with that. Just look at the gross per date and you'll see that on many dates Beyoncé made less money than Gaga despite having a higher attendance (talking about BTWB and MB).

I also don't really get the "she didn't outsell Madonna" argument since.. neither did Gaga. And this thread is about who's the biggest superstar, Beyoncé or Gaga, so all the arguments you're using to tear down Beyoncé here can easily (I have to say a lot more easily) apply to Gaga as well, but I'm not surprised you're not showing the same vigour in doing that.

23 minutes ago, JDi said:

people outside the US generally associate her with Crazy In Love and Single Ladies and thigh-shakes.

Yes, and people associate Gaga with a meat dress, the fact that she has a penis, Poker Face and Bad Romance and her constant copying of Madonna. Who gives a ****.

24 minutes ago, JDi said:

and I'm not off-topic because I said Gaga feels the most like a superstar. she's got the quality and feels like a 20th century superstar. she's the exception.

Well, that's fine, but then why are you criticizing Beyoncé without offering arguments FOR Gaga? "She's got the quality" is not gonna cut if after you're using specifics to bash Beyoncé. If she's the exception, why isn't it translating into commercial success (anymore)? You're not done talking, so don't pretend you are. If you make big statements you better be able to back them up.

26 minutes ago, JDi said:

and what were your arguments, again? 90k tickets sold where Gaga sold 110k?

What are you talking about? Gaga never performed at the Wembley stadium (except as an opener for Take That). I guess you're talking about Twickenham, which is misleading since that audience was spread over two dates, not one, and only one date sold out that fast. Let's wait until we have the actual data before you discredit people.

Besides, you're again not taking into account that Gaga's tour success has declined massively. Yes she performed for 110k people over two dates, but in 2014 she couldn't do stadiums in England anymore and had to settle for the O2 where she had three dates while Beyoncé in 2013 did 6 (!) shows in that venue, and performed for more than double the audience Gaga had. And then let's not forget she also sold out Twickenham with 45.060 people only a month later, bringing her total London attendance to over a 140.000 people while artRAVE's London total was a meager 42.845. Same dynamic with other dates, so don't.

[Didymus 34,379]

37 minutes ago, JDi said:

why is she so special to you tho?

she's a product. and not a very imaginative one. she's very much not special at all. you know, the kind of person you can picture crying themselves to sleep over it.

I don't like her albums that much. I appreciate Lemonade but I already think it's overrated. I'm just talking about her star power, dance ability and her status as a rising commercial power.

I, unlike many (incl. you) can praise someone for obvious reasons without thinking they're my favorite artist. Beyoncé isn't anywhere near my favorite artists but that doesn't mean I won't roll my eyes when people deny her success and relevance based on nothing but delusion

[JDi 1,495]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

I don't get why on earth that's a good argument when she's about to have the biggest, highest-grossing tour of her career Her global tour success is rising, unlike Gaga's. That's not an argument to cast aside. If she manages to sell out the stadiums on her next tour, she will be outselling Gaga's most successful tour with just 40 dates compared to 200+. Not even your lousy "Gaga charges less for tickets" (which is only really applicable to artRAVE) can compete with that. Just look at the gross per date and you'll see that on many dates Beyoncé made less money than Gaga despite having a higher attendance (talking about BTWB and MB).

I also don't really get the "she didn't outsell Madonna" argument since.. neither did Gaga. And this thread is about who's the biggest superstar, Beyoncé or Gaga, so all the arguments you're using to tear down Beyoncé here can easily (I have to say a lot more easily) apply to Gaga as well, but I'm not surprised you're not showing the same vigour in doing that.

Yes, and people associate Gaga with a meat dress, the fact that she has a penis, Poker Face and Bad Romance and her constant copying of Madonna. Who gives a ****.

Well, that's fine, but then why are you criticizing Beyoncé without offering arguments FOR Gaga? "She's got the quality" is not gonna cut if after you're using specifics to bash Beyoncé. If she's the exception, why isn't it translating into commercial success (anymore)? You're not done talking, so don't pretend you are. If you make big statements you better be able to back them up.

What are you talking about? Gaga never performed at the Wembley stadium (except as an opener for Take That). I guess you're talking about Twickenham, which is misleading since that audience was spread over two dates, not one, and only one date sold out that fast. Let's wait until we have the actual data before you discredit people.

Besides, you're again not taking into account that Gaga's tour success has declined massively. Yes she performed for 110k people over two dates, but in 2014 she couldn't do stadiums in England anymore and had to settle for the O2 where she had three dates while Beyoncé in 2013 did 6 (!) shows in that venue, and performed for more than double the audience Gaga had. And then let's not forget she also sold out Twickenham with 45.060 people only a month later, bringing her total London attendance to over a 140.000 people while artRAVE's London total was a meager 42.845. Same dynamic with other dates, so don't.

great dedication. too bad Beyoncé only pays people to make her look like the person you think you're defending.

and to answer your question about "how it's not translating" for Gaga, it is translating, only not in buyers that will remember her as another pop bitch that shook her thighs in the distance while singing about how she slays, but in such who will remember her for her unique icon.

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, JDi said:

great dedication. too bad Beyoncé only pays people to make her look like the person you think you're defending.

and to answer your question about "how it's not translating" for Gaga, it is translating, only not in buyers that will remember her as another pop bitch that shook her thighs in the distance while singing about how she slays, but in such who will remember her for her unique icon.

I'll take this nonsensical reply as an acknowledgment of defeat.

Nice clockin' ya.

[Didymus 34,379]

40 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

I was simply making the observation that gay men are drawn towards powerful fierce black divas. This is partly due to our common feeling of disenfranchisement. Gay culture and black culture are very intertwined. Is it an insult to say that Beyonce is a powerful fierce diva now? 

If that was genuinely your intent, which I doubt, then I apologize for misinterpreting it, but on the other hand, there was literally no other way for me to read it differently. You enter a discussion thread at page 6, ignore all the arguments people have brought and literally link all her praise to a mere "natural inclination". It's not even on-topic to be honest.

42 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

 And what's with the attitude? I didn't even quote anyone or address anyone's posts to make an argument. I don't care for who is the bigger superstar. If you have some issues with me don't project your own assumptions into my post. 

Well, I can't help projecting when you're writing something that is undoubtedly biased and borderline racist looking. You didn't make any effort to explain yourself the way you're doing now, so I don't think my response was out of order at all.

If you don't care about the question then maybe it's best to keep comments that can easily be read as vitriolic Beyoncé hatred out of here

[JDi 1,495]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

I don't like her albums that much. I appreciate Lemonade but I already think it's overrated. I'm just talking about her star power, dance ability and her status as a rising commercial power.

I, unlike many (incl. you) can praise someone for obvious reasons without thinking they're my favorite artist. Beyoncé isn't anywhere near my favorite artists but that doesn't mean I won't roll my eyes when people deny her success and relevance based on nothing but delusion

I can praise her too, for trying so hard. it pays off I guess. but stop with this empty success argument. Backstreet Boys were huge too. if they didn't lose their youth the way Beyoncé isn't using her diva attitude, they'd also have longevity but it still wouldn't make them impressive.

Beyoncé is relevant only because there haven't been enough quality black female performers to play the popstar game.

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, JDi said:

I can praise her too, for trying so hard. it pays off I guess. but stop with this empty success argument. Backstreet Boys were huge too. if they didn't lose their youth the way Beyoncé isn't using her diva attitude, they'd also have longevity but it still wouldn't make them impressive.

Beyoncé is relevant only because there haven't been enough quality black female performers to play the popstar game.

The backtracking is real.

You started out by saying Beyoncé wasn't as big as her competitors outside of the US, that Rihanna and Gaga were most successful overall, and now that I've provided you with hard proof that Beyoncé is enjoying more commercial success than any of those two, you have to switch to another argument Pathetic.

This thread isn't about empty success. If you wanna fire off on Beyoncé, use the other threads where you can easily do that. This is about a very simple question: who's the biggest superstar? A possible emptiness in Beyoncé's irrelevance isn't on topic and it doesn't even matter. We're not debating whose success is most deserved here..

And vomiting at that last sentence there. Disgusting.

[JDi 1,495]

6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I'll take this nonsensical reply as an acknowledgment of defeat.

Nice clockin' ya.

if you think an essay of detractions makes you look more sensible, you must think people are pretty easy.

well, so does Beyoncé and she's obviously right so there's your acknowledgement.

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, JDi said:

if you think an essay of detractions makes you look more sensible, you must think people are pretty easy.

well, so does Beyoncé and she's obviously right so there's your acknowledgement.

Detractions? It was a point-by-point presentation of counterarguments to what you've been claiming. Gurl. No.

[JDi 1,495]

Just now, Didymus said:

The backtracking is real.

You started out by saying Beyoncé wasn't as big as her competitors outside of the US, that Rihanna and Gaga were most successful overall, and now that I've provided you with hard proof that Beyoncé is enjoying more commercial success than any of those two, you have to switch to another argument Pathetic.

This thread isn't about empty success. If you wanna fire off on Beyoncé, use the other threads where you can easily do that. This is about a very simple question: who's the biggest superstar? A possible emptiness in Beyoncé's irrelevance isn't on topic and it doesn't even matter. We're not debating whose success is most deserved here..

And vomiting at that last sentence there. Disgusting.

it's true and she knows it and is thankful so you must be too.

and no I didn't change my argument. Rihanna is still the more successful pop star. she's got more popular songs and is better known globally. and Gaga is still the better superstar. wait until you're old. you're not the brightest social analyst.

[PopThatArt 2,193]

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

10 minutes ago, Didymus said:

If that was genuinely your intent, which I doubt, then I apologize for misinterpreting it, but on the other hand, there was literally no other way for me to read it differently. You enter a discussion thread at page 6, ignore all the arguments people have brought and literally link all her praise to a mere "natural inclination". It's not even on-topic to be honest.

Well, I can't help projecting when you're writing something that is undoubtedly biased and borderline racist looking. You didn't make any effort to explain yourself the way you're doing now, so I don't think my response was out of order at all.

If you don't care about the question then maybe it's best to keep comments that can easily be read as vitriolic Beyoncé hatred out of here

You doubt it? 

Yes there was another way to interpret it. Literally. Not every remark made has implicature. What's odd is that it contained a slew of praises for her. Also talking about race isn't racist. I also have never made comments on this issue that would make me believably biased.

I'd like to know why you think gay men being drawn to Beyonce due to her powerful persona is an inherently bad thing.

[Didymus 34,379]

3 minutes ago, JDi said:

wait until you're old. you're not the brightest social analyst.

Thanks for the advice, but I sure don't wanna learn from you

[JDi 1,495]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Detractions? It was a point-by-point presentation of counterarguments to what you've been claiming. Gurl. No.

yeah, like that one where I didn't say Gaga was bigger touring force than Madonna. or the one where you mentioned the hermaphrodite rumours, like it's not complete idiots who still believe this, while it's sensible people who associate Beyonce with thigh dancing. or the rest which were basically you going on and on about tour numbers.

you have to try even harder and I don't. that's sweet.

[PopThatArt 2,193]

5 hours ago, Didymus said:

Bey. She managed to endlessly captivate her audiences for nearly two decades, tour success is growing, critical acclaim is growing, still an unparallelled ****ing monster on stage,... I mean, just imagine Bey and Gaga walking next to each other on the street. Who would you be most starstruck by? That's right.

If you had asked me in 2008-09 tho

Edit: Apparently some people are convinced they'd be more starstruck by Gaga (sadly we can't put that theory to the test), so I take back my admittedly poor phrasing. It's just my imagination, I'd be far more shocked and in awe of the fact that I was in the presence of Bey than Gaga.

"endlessly captivate", I laugh. She hasn't captivated me, ever. And I think it says more about society than Beyonce, what society adheres to these days is slop and mess, everyone has become so uncultured and Beyonce is the epitome of a lack of culture. She may be big in America but that's it. American media latch on to her because she's one of the only black female artists in the game, they feel obligated to report about her and be inclusive and not appear racist. They over exaggerate her contributions to culture and music. And also, it wasn't until beyonce appeared in Telephone that she started to get attention from the younger generation, and people like to use chart positions of singles as a determining factor of greatness and superstardom, but look at Beyonce, musically, only one or two of the dozen or so singles she has released cracked the top 20 in the past decade. Musically, her impact is slim to nil, she's done nothing to innovate culture the way Gaga has.