Sanders Campaign Manager: Hillary's Foreign Policy Caused ISIS

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

6 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

I do think the vote deserves criticism. I don't care what state you represent or why you voted the way you did. In foresight it was a mistake and a mistake costed lots of money and lots of innocent lives. Not everyone made the same mistake, it's worth noting when we talk about judgment.

No you should care, because back then it was seen that the war would save lives if it prevented WMDs from being targeted on the civilized world. That New York was a HUGE victim of some of those attacks made her role even more pressuring. That the UN itself found it may be necessary speaks volumes.

So no, don't revise history in an attempt to criticize one's intentions.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

3 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

No you should care, because back then it was seen that the war would save lives if it prevented WMDs from being targeted on the civilized world. That New York was a HUGE victim of some of those attacks made her role even more pressuring.

So no, don't revise history in an attempt to criticize one's intentions.

I didn't revise history, I'm sure many people who voted for the war had great intentions. I don't wanna take away from that. But in the end, the conflict was a big mistake and everyone who voted the way Hillary did is responsible. The Iraq war did cost a lot of money and a lot of people, including innocent people in the Middle East, lost their lives. That's what happened. It's not like no one voted against the war, people did because they didn't think with the info they had was sufficient. So not everyone made this mistake but she did. Not her alone of course, the majority of Americans made this mistake.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

2 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

I didn't revise history, I'm sure many people who voted for the war had great intentions. I don't wanna take away from that. But in the end, the conflict was a big mistake and everyone who voted the way Hillary did is responsible. The Iraq war did cost a lot of money and a lot of people, including innocent people in the Middle East, lost their lives. That's what happened. It's not like no one voted against the war, people did because they didn't think with the info they had was sufficient. So not everyone made this mistake but she did. Not her alone of course, the majority of Americans made this mistake.

Well the thing is everyone who voted for it is well aware of the situation. It's simply that criticizing them for it is completely out of place because ultimately the events of the war were caused by executive actions not legislative ones.

Even Bernie supported the legislative war effort. Let's not.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

Just now, LebaneseDude said:

Well the thing is everyone who voted for it is well aware of the situation. It's simply that criticizing them for it is completely out of place because ultimately the events of the war were caused by executive actions not legislative ones.

I think its worth talking about now just because we have people in the race who were opposed to the war when it happened (Did they prove if Trump was against it? I don't remember how that ended). So it's interesting to compare the judgment on that issue because something like that could come up again, especially with terrorism becoming more and more talked about.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

17 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

I think its worth talking about now just because we have people in the race who were opposed to the war when it happened (Did they prove if Trump was against it? I don't remember how that ended). So it's interesting to compare the judgment on that issue because something like that could come up again, especially with terrorism becoming more and more talked about.

Yes but you have to remember that the judgement was based on events at the time.

At the time, the presence of WMDs by Iraq was taken seriously by the international spere. Even the UN took an interest in it. Ultimately the war was initiated before proof of WMDs had been established. That happened after the vote. The vote was intended to show solidarity in regards to initiating military procedures if WMDs has been found.

Furthermore, had the executive decisions taken during the war not been horrible, the war could have taken a far different turn, and history could just have easily have criticized Bernie's judgement in not voting for it.

Perhaps there could have been better judgment or foresight or whatever you want to refer to, but one can apply that to almost everything anyone ever does, most especially in the American people not voting for the idiot called George Bush.

In the end, Hillary voted and Bernie did not. The entire point is that this particular topic is not as simple as "Hillary did it", which this campaign manager ultimately tried to do, when that is entirely and completely wrong. George Bush and Cheney's war actions caused ISIS to be born, and Obama's foreign policy is what exacerbated the situation. 

Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get me wrong, I commend Bernie for voting against the war. I just don't think this particular exchange should be done in the first place. This is only giving the GOP more ammo when the eventual nominee is chosen, especially since this bullshit that the manager is trying to spew is regurgitated directly from the GOP talking points.

If you want to apply foresight, this is a good place to go at it. I sincerely wish these vicious attacks would stop, before it ends up ****ing over the democratic nominee where it comes to undecided or independent voters... Hell, even hardcore Bernie or Hillary supporters that don't realize that abstaining from voting to "send a message" would be the equivalent of voting for the Republican nominee who most definitely does NOT have their best interests in mind.

[Born To Slay 10,996]

10 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

Yes but you have to remember that the judgement was based on events at the time.

At the time, the presence of WMDs by Iraq was taken seriously by the international spere. Even the UN took an interest in it. Ultimately the war was initiated before proof of WMDs had been established. That happened after the vote. The vote was intended to show solidarity in regards to initiating military procedures if WMDs has been found.

Furthermore, had the executive decisions taken during the war not been horrible, the war could have taken a far different turn, and history could just have easily have criticized Bernie's judgement in not voting for it.

Perhaps there could have been better judgment or foresight or whatever you want to refer to, but one can apply that to almost everything anyone ever does, most especially in the American people not voting for the idiot called George Bush.

In the end, Hillary voted and Bernie did not. The entire point is that this particular topic is not as simple as "Hillary did it", which this campaign manager ultimately tried to do, when that is entirely and completely wrong. George Bush and Cheney's war actions caused ISIS to be born, and Obama's foreign policy is what exacerbated the situation. 

Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't get me wrong, I commend Bernie for voting against the war. I just don't think this particular exchange should be done in the first place. This is only giving the GOP more ammo when the eventual nominee is chosen, especially since this bullshit that the manager is trying to spew is regurgitated directly from the GOP talking points.

If you want to apply foresight, this is a good place to go at it. I sincerely wish these vicious attacks would stop, before it ends up ****ing over the democratic nominee where it comes to undecided or independent voters... Hell, even hardcore Bernie or Hillary supporters that don't realize that abstaining from voting to "send a message" would be the equivalent of voting for the Republican nominee who most definitely does NOT have their best interests in mind.

I'm not saying there was no reason to vote for the war, I get that a lot of people supported the war for whatever reason. And that Hillary is far from having sole responsibility for the war and Isis, in fact as u said Bush and Obama are a lot more responsible. I'm not trying to exclusively vilify Hillary. Even tho I support Bernie, I don't dislike her.

All that said, I don't buy into the whole GOP ammo thing. They should run against eachother as if they're actually running against eachother. They're not on the same side right now and won't be until the convention. Bernie and Hillary should both fight as hard as possible for every vote.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

40 minutes ago, Born To Slay said:

All that said, I don't buy into the whole GOP ammo thing. They should run against eachother as if they're actually running against eachother. They're not on the same side right now and won't be until the convention. Bernie and Hillary should both fight as hard as possible for every vote.

You don't have to buy it. It's real.

Feel free to google GOP responses to Bernie's attacks. You won't find much on Hillary because the GOP is aware that Hillary is the likely nominee so they're focusing on her.

Here's one of many:

 

The contrasts between them should be kept to debates, not personal attacks. 

Anyway I enjoyed our discussion.

[MJHolland 12,725]

2 hours ago, LeoFameMonster said:

I think ill stay right on it

be my guest little boy

[LeoFameMonster 1,592]

2 hours ago, MJHolland said:

be my guest little boy

careful what you wish for, you might fall in love.

[thefamebitch 834]

Military industrial complex, look it up 

[Katharine Hepburn 4,607]

Can you Americans contain this to a single thread. This three ringed circus of an election is annoying 

[outtahere 336]

You can't blame anyone for ISIS, as much as I dislike Hillary that is ridiculous. 

[outtahere 336]

On April 11, 2016 at 9:32 PM, CustomGueseppi said:

Can you Americans contain this to a single thread. This three ringed circus of an election is annoying 

Agreed. I'm embarrassed this is my country right now. 

[Whispering 18,865]

On April 11, 2016 at 8:32 PM, CustomGueseppi said:

Can you Americans contain this to a single thread. This three ringed circus of an election is annoying 

You could always avoid the threads.  

[Morphine Prince 109,680]

On 4/11/2016 at 8:32 PM, CustomGueseppi said:

Can you Americans contain this to a single thread. This three ringed circus of an election is annoying 

No.