UK EU membership referendum

[christinahoney 383]

I hope the UK leaves. 

[retrosexual123 1,125]

I'm kind of torn but probably voting out.

I live in London and have met many EU citizens, I myself, lived in Spain thanks to the EU with my parents.

I strongly believe living in the UK is a privilege. Having said that, I don't understand why Polish/Lithuanian/German people have a better chance at it than Peruvian people for example. Why should Romanians be allowed in the country when Chileans can only dream of it? I think we should have a points based system. Definitely. For everyone. To make it fair. 

A second reason I'm voting out (call me stupid or whatever but it's really close to my heart) is that many of the Eastern European people I have met in London are homophobic. Maybe not outright but I strongly believe that they think that being gay is wrong. It has been ingrained into their upbringing by the USSR and I don't believe people who think this way should have the privilege of living in the UK so easily. I'm not generalising with this, I'm just saying that the UK is a country which treats everyone equally and having people come live here that didn't grow up with this mentality, is a complete set back to all the hard work that has been put into this. 

Many Europeans that I've met also take for granted the fact that they can come and make a new life for themselves in the UK. 'It's Europe, it's my right' - yes, it is, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is a great opportunity which shouldn't be easily taken for granted. I know many an EU citizen that thinks this way. 

Plus having this freedom of movement opens up lots of problems. I know of Ukranian (outside of eu) citizens who can easily get Romanian passports (eu) illegaly. They are then free to come in to the UK and work... This can happen because in Romania and these other countries, the customs and way of life are very different. It is very easy to bend the rules and bribe people. I've also known people who have BOUGHT lithuanian driving licences and can come to the UK pay £50 and get a UK driving licence which, for us, really cost us an arm and a leg. 

I also know of a Lithuanian lady who, ages ago, when Lithuania didn't exist, came to the UK illegaly, did drugs, sold them... and now she is a happy British Citizen, I think this is an insult to honest, hard working British people like my ancestors. 

Thirdly, I believe that as a country we will do just fine outside of the EU. As the video says it, we are the 5th economy in the world. The video explains it all pretty well.

When we joined the then 'EU' it was different, smaller and under other circumstances. It is very different now. Imagine if Turkey were to join the EU... I'm not being racist I'm just saying that allowing 73 million muslims to come and live here is crazy. (And also I've had very bad personal experiences with turkish partners, from my own personal experience, I consider them extremely clingy and vulgar) The pressure it would put on society... I know London is multicultural, but sometimes you walk around and all you see is shops with names in other languages... In arabic which you can't even make sense of. It is so sad sometimes... 

I go to Aldi and I need to ask a question and a poor 65 year old lady from Eastern Europe cannot help me because she cannot understand what I'm saying... It's not fair on her or on me... 

So yeah, these are the main points... and a bit of a rant... Just waiting on my postal vote and then sending it off. 

So as a summary of all of this: I think coming to the UK is a privilege for anyone. We are a free society that looks after its citizens. Anyone who wants to come here is welcome, but fairly. It shouldn't be a free-for-all. I want as many Peruvians in the UK as Polish people... I want the people that come here to adjust to a UK way of life, accept everyone and follow our laws and rules. If people have to work hard to come here, they will do all of this. 

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, go ahead and refute it, but don't attack me  Love ya, see ya, bye. 

 

[hmm 979]

On 19/05/2016 at 4:32 PM, retrosexual123 said:

I'm kind of torn but probably voting out.

I live in London and have met many EU citizens, I myself, lived in Spain thanks to the EU with my parents.

I strongly believe living in the UK is a privilege. Having said that, I don't understand why Polish/Lithuanian/German people have a better chance at it than Peruvian people for example. Why should Romanians be allowed in the country when Chileans can only dream of it? I think we should have a points based system. Definitely. For everyone. To make it fair. 

A second reason I'm voting out (call me stupid or whatever but it's really close to my heart) is that many of the Eastern European people I have met in London are homophobic. Maybe not outright but I strongly believe that they think that being gay is wrong. It has been ingrained into their upbringing by the USSR and I don't believe people who think this way should have the privilege of living in the UK so easily. I'm not generalising with this, I'm just saying that the UK is a country which treats everyone equally and having people come live here that didn't grow up with this mentality, is a complete set back to all the hard work that has been put into this. 

Many Europeans that I've met also take for granted the fact that they can come and make a new life for themselves in the UK. 'It's Europe, it's my right' - yes, it is, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is a great opportunity which shouldn't be easily taken for granted. I know many an EU citizen that thinks this way. 

Plus having this freedom of movement opens up lots of problems. I know of Ukranian (outside of eu) citizens who can easily get Romanian passports (eu) illegaly. They are then free to come in to the UK and work... This can happen because in Romania and these other countries, the customs and way of life are very different. It is very easy to bend the rules and bribe people. I've also known people who have BOUGHT lithuanian driving licences and can come to the UK pay £50 and get a UK driving licence which, for us, really cost us an arm and a leg. 

I also know of a Lithuanian lady who, ages ago, when Lithuania didn't exist, came to the UK illegaly, did drugs, sold them... and now she is a happy British Citizen, I think this is an insult to honest, hard working British people like my ancestors. 

Thirdly, I believe that as a country we will do just fine outside of the EU. As the video says it, we are the 5th economy in the world. The video explains it all pretty well.

When we joined the then 'EU' it was different, smaller and under other circumstances. It is very different now. Imagine if Turkey were to join the EU... I'm not being racist I'm just saying that allowing 73 million muslims to come and live here is crazy. (And also I've had very bad personal experiences with turkish partners, from my own personal experience, I consider them extremely clingy and vulgar) The pressure it would put on society... I know London is multicultural, but sometimes you walk around and all you see is shops with names in other languages... In arabic which you can't even make sense of. It is so sad sometimes... 

I go to Aldi and I need to ask a question and a poor 65 year old lady from Eastern Europe cannot help me because she cannot understand what I'm saying... It's not fair on her or on me... 

So yeah, these are the main points... and a bit of a rant... Just waiting on my postal vote and then sending it off. 

So as a summary of all of this: I think coming to the UK is a privilege for anyone. We are a free society that looks after its citizens. Anyone who wants to come here is welcome, but fairly. It shouldn't be a free-for-all. I want as many Peruvians in the UK as Polish people... I want the people that come here to adjust to a UK way of life, accept everyone and follow our laws and rules. If people have to work hard to come here, they will do all of this. 

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, go ahead and refute it, but don't attack me  Love ya, see ya, bye. 

 

Most of your reasons for leaving seem to be based on your anecdotal experience of people who have migrated to the UK  

Why is the Lithuanian woman an insult to 'hard working British people' but the numerous British criminals aren't? I don't even get how her naturalisation could be relevant to EU membership - bar voting she would've had most of the rights of British people already. As far as I'm aware, she would have become a British citizen based on Britain's own nationality laws; nothing enforced by the EU.

You can condemn Eastern European nations of being homophobic in nature or whatever but it really hasn't been long since the UK was acting in the same manner. Legalisation of same sex activity was only in 1967 - 20 years behind Sweden, 30 behind Denmark and over 150 years after the Netherlands did similar  I know that's not the only factor of determining how gay accepting a country's values (or a person individually) is but as you say, considering some of these countries are only relatively recently becoming more developed its natural that their legislation might not exactly be at the standards of the Nordic nations for example.

The same goes for Britain 'treating everyone equally' - the UK has just as many racist, homophobic and misogynistic thugs as any other nation and at times; even the legislation fails people. Considering its colonialist past, and even relatively recent/current treatment of ethnic minorities and the Irish, it's not exactly (and certainly wasn't) some sort of egalitarian utopia. 

If Turkey were to ever join the EU (or gain freedom of movement across the continent), 73 million of its population would certainly not be migrating to the UK, as it stands (or at least using 2009 stats) - of European nations, the UK has only the eighth largest Turkish diaspora, behind Germany, France, Netherlands, Austria, Switzerland, Sweden and Denmark, so surely these places would be of far more interest to potential Turkish migrants? 

I don't really care if people are voting to leave, but it's quite grating when it comes from a position of 'Britain is better than the rest of Europe'...  

(And just for clarification this post isn't supposed to be read as a 'Britain is worse than the rest of Europe' obviously) 

[Luc 4,776]

On 19/05/2016 at 5:32 PM, retrosexual123 said:

I'm kind of torn but probably voting out.

I live in London and have met many EU citizens, I myself, lived in Spain thanks to the EU with my parents.

I strongly believe living in the UK is a privilege. Having said that, I don't understand why Polish/Lithuanian/German people have a better chance at it than Peruvian people for example. Why should Romanians be allowed in the country when Chileans can only dream of it? I think we should have a points based system. Definitely. For everyone. To make it fair. 

A second reason I'm voting out (call me stupid or whatever but it's really close to my heart) is that many of the Eastern European people I have met in London are homophobic. Maybe not outright but I strongly believe that they think that being gay is wrong. It has been ingrained into their upbringing by the USSR and I don't believe people who think this way should have the privilege of living in the UK so easily. I'm not generalising with this, I'm just saying that the UK is a country which treats everyone equally and having people come live here that didn't grow up with this mentality, is a complete set back to all the hard work that has been put into this. 

Many Europeans that I've met also take for granted the fact that they can come and make a new life for themselves in the UK. 'It's Europe, it's my right' - yes, it is, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is a great opportunity which shouldn't be easily taken for granted. I know many an EU citizen that thinks this way. 

Plus having this freedom of movement opens up lots of problems. I know of Ukranian (outside of eu) citizens who can easily get Romanian passports (eu) illegaly. They are then free to come in to the UK and work... This can happen because in Romania and these other countries, the customs and way of life are very different. It is very easy to bend the rules and bribe people. I've also known people who have BOUGHT lithuanian driving licences and can come to the UK pay £50 and get a UK driving licence which, for us, really cost us an arm and a leg. 

I also know of a Lithuanian lady who, ages ago, when Lithuania didn't exist, came to the UK illegaly, did drugs, sold them... and now she is a happy British Citizen, I think this is an insult to honest, hard working British people like my ancestors. 

Thirdly, I believe that as a country we will do just fine outside of the EU. As the video says it, we are the 5th economy in the world. The video explains it all pretty well.

When we joined the then 'EU' it was different, smaller and under other circumstances. It is very different now. Imagine if Turkey were to join the EU... I'm not being racist I'm just saying that allowing 73 million muslims to come and live here is crazy. (And also I've had very bad personal experiences with turkish partners, from my own personal experience, I consider them extremely clingy and vulgar) The pressure it would put on society... I know London is multicultural, but sometimes you walk around and all you see is shops with names in other languages... In arabic which you can't even make sense of. It is so sad sometimes... 

I go to Aldi and I need to ask a question and a poor 65 year old lady from Eastern Europe cannot help me because she cannot understand what I'm saying... It's not fair on her or on me... 

So yeah, these are the main points... and a bit of a rant... Just waiting on my postal vote and then sending it off. 

So as a summary of all of this: I think coming to the UK is a privilege for anyone. We are a free society that looks after its citizens. Anyone who wants to come here is welcome, but fairly. It shouldn't be a free-for-all. I want as many Peruvians in the UK as Polish people... I want the people that come here to adjust to a UK way of life, accept everyone and follow our laws and rules. If people have to work hard to come here, they will do all of this. 

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, go ahead and refute it, but don't attack me  Love ya, see ya, bye. 

 

I understand how the wealth and values built up in the UK seem to be used and partly destroyed by migrants.. but remember that the EU also gives a great opportunity for East European LBGT, who can migrate to the West too, and also allows for export of West-European values to those countries. Migrants who come from East-Europe often leave being way more tolerant. An example is one of my better friends, who came from Poland eight years ago. She's totally accepting of homosexuality.

Also, migration to the UK won't stop when the UK leaves the EU. It might actually increase. Remember how the migrants from Pakistan, India, Lebanon, etc didn't come to the UK because of the EU. They came because the UK government wanted them to come. It would actually make more people try to go to the UK, considering the cooperation between for example France and the UK in Calais would significantly decline.

It would also do nothing to remove the current migrants in the UK.

As for living situation, it would almost surely affect you. London house prices will decline and interest on a mortgage will increase. London will be less attractive to foreign investors and business (banks in particular). Trade with the rest of the EU would be much lower, leading to even more unemployment and higher prices. There's literally no benefit for the UK economically. Regulations would become less, but after taking in consideration the loss of competitiveness due to losing their entry in the EU's internal market, the competitiveness would still decrease. What do you get in return? Yes, less regulations which will lead to way more pollution in London!

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

Uh oh

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-poll-idUSKCN0YR0YB

Looks like "Leave" is the majority vote right now according to exit polls.

[LastNight 5,943]

On 5/19/2016 at 4:32 PM, retrosexual123 said:

I'm kind of torn but probably voting out.

I live in London and have met many EU citizens, I myself, lived in Spain thanks to the EU with my parents.

I strongly believe living in the UK is a privilege. Having said that, I don't understand why Polish/Lithuanian/German people have a better chance at it than Peruvian people for example. Why should Romanians be allowed in the country when Chileans can only dream of it? I think we should have a points based system. Definitely. For everyone. To make it fair. 

A second reason I'm voting out (call me stupid or whatever but it's really close to my heart) is that many of the Eastern European people I have met in London are homophobic. Maybe not outright but I strongly believe that they think that being gay is wrong. It has been ingrained into their upbringing by the USSR and I don't believe people who think this way should have the privilege of living in the UK so easily. I'm not generalising with this, I'm just saying that the UK is a country which treats everyone equally and having people come live here that didn't grow up with this mentality, is a complete set back to all the hard work that has been put into this. 

Many Europeans that I've met also take for granted the fact that they can come and make a new life for themselves in the UK. 'It's Europe, it's my right' - yes, it is, but it doesn't take away the fact that it is a great opportunity which shouldn't be easily taken for granted. I know many an EU citizen that thinks this way. 

Plus having this freedom of movement opens up lots of problems. I know of Ukranian (outside of eu) citizens who can easily get Romanian passports (eu) illegaly. They are then free to come in to the UK and work... This can happen because in Romania and these other countries, the customs and way of life are very different. It is very easy to bend the rules and bribe people. I've also known people who have BOUGHT lithuanian driving licences and can come to the UK pay £50 and get a UK driving licence which, for us, really cost us an arm and a leg. 

I also know of a Lithuanian lady who, ages ago, when Lithuania didn't exist, came to the UK illegaly, did drugs, sold them... and now she is a happy British Citizen, I think this is an insult to honest, hard working British people like my ancestors. 

Thirdly, I believe that as a country we will do just fine outside of the EU. As the video says it, we are the 5th economy in the world. The video explains it all pretty well.

When we joined the then 'EU' it was different, smaller and under other circumstances. It is very different now. Imagine if Turkey were to join the EU... I'm not being racist I'm just saying that allowing 73 million muslims to come and live here is crazy. (And also I've had very bad personal experiences with turkish partners, from my own personal experience, I consider them extremely clingy and vulgar) The pressure it would put on society... I know London is multicultural, but sometimes you walk around and all you see is shops with names in other languages... In arabic which you can't even make sense of. It is so sad sometimes... 

I go to Aldi and I need to ask a question and a poor 65 year old lady from Eastern Europe cannot help me because she cannot understand what I'm saying... It's not fair on her or on me... 

So yeah, these are the main points... and a bit of a rant... Just waiting on my postal vote and then sending it off. 

So as a summary of all of this: I think coming to the UK is a privilege for anyone. We are a free society that looks after its citizens. Anyone who wants to come here is welcome, but fairly. It shouldn't be a free-for-all. I want as many Peruvians in the UK as Polish people... I want the people that come here to adjust to a UK way of life, accept everyone and follow our laws and rules. If people have to work hard to come here, they will do all of this. 

This is my opinion and I'm entitled to it, go ahead and refute it, but don't attack me  Love ya, see ya, bye. 

 

I respect everyone's right to their opinions and I think it's important to have an open discussion about these kind of things, I do however, take issue with the way you articulated this. One of your arguments is to do with homophobia, the kind of fear and hatred that you are talking about is based on ignorance and yet you yourself seem to make several ignorant and sweepingly judgemental statements.

As the LGBTQ+ community we are often subjected to stereotypes and generalisation and if that is something you take issue with then I would think you would be less quick to refer to Turkish people as "clingy and vulgar", to insinuate that the majority of Eastern European people are "homophobic" and to make statements such as "I'm not being racist I'm just saying that allowing 73 million muslims to come and live here is crazy." Number one: 73 million people would not be moving into the UK, Muslim or not, and I don't think there is an issue with another 73 million people becoming part of the EU either. Number two: you give off an attitude of 'I'm not being racist but...' which actually just emphasises the fact that there are prejudice undertones to your statement. This is made especially obvious by the fact that you needed to specify that the '73 million people' are Muslim and later go on to lament the Arabic shops you see around London, shops that contribute to our economy and our society. I personally love the diversity of the UK, I think living in a multi-cultural society is massively beneficial.

It seems that your arguments are based largely on personal experience (which is important and certainly our individual experience of the world does indeed shape our opinions,) but to take random anecdotes about Lithuanian drug dealers and Eastern European shop workers and have them be the crux of some of your arguments seems a little microcosmic, especially when you seem to ignore the UK born-and-bred criminals who are also an insult to hardworking British people. You can't point out foreign crooks but then gloss over the many wrongs committed by the British themselves.

I am proud to be from the UK and I agree that it is a privilege to live here, but to say that the UK treats everyone equally is nonsense - both in terms of the Government and how some citizens treat one another. No society is truly free and no not all citizens are looked after as they should be. You seem to be idealising the UK and demonising immigrants when we have plenty of problems all of our own: we have our own racists, homophobes and sexists - that will not change whether we vote in or out.

I think you make some good points about coming to the UK, respecting our laws and working hard to contribute to our society but I think you also need to look outside yourself and your own experiences and not speak so generally. Perhaps also consider that the freedom of movement also applies to UK citizens and our ability to move easily around Europe if we should choose, something that would be much more difficult if we do leave. 

Having said this, I don't know what I'm going to vote yet but I sure hope that when I do I base my decision on something other than mild racism and personal anecdote and instead think about the bigger picture, society as a whole and future generations. 

[Economy 52,861]

All I say is good thing Britain doesnt use the Euro and in some aspects is already somewhat seperate from EU in some autonomous decisions (Like Switzerland)

 

If they leave shockwaves should be lower than if it was France or Germany leaving

[Dominic 11,922]

Not long now. I'm voting to remain. 

What are you guys voting? Briefly... 

[hmm 979]

Remain here, but I've got a very bad feeling that leave will win  

Migrants and Brussels have become the scapegoat for failings of successive British governments and that such a vicious right wing is now so prominent in British politics again is scary but c'est la vie, or more importantly it will be la vie after this referendum I guess  

[LaLuna 12,732]

Ahhh aren't referendums fun? We've had a couple of those in Quebec and I was either not born yet or not old enough to vote  Quite frankly, it's scary, it's such a huge decision to make. 

I'm not educated enough on the subject of the UK referendum to give my opinion, I just hope everything works out for the best for everyone in the UK.

[lego 44,165]

Do you mind if I post this here?

 

 

 

[bionic 50,111]

You should all vote leave  

[Harry 26,836]

5 minutes ago, bionic said:

You should all vote leave  

no plz don't

[faux 2,190]

People who'll vote to leave are ignorant and brainwashed  I can't believe they're serious.

[Dayman 6,251]

I can't wait for the impending global recession if the leave votes win.