Is it just me or Beyonce's fans are racist af?

[Soleils 9]

44 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the problem - some people around here don't agree with what I say within the first two sentences, so immediately choose to discredit the entire thing or not even bother reading the rest of it. I repeat over and over that if they read the rest, they'd understand me, even if they don't agree. The first paragraph is just me getting started - the last paragraph is usually when I'm at my strongest, so you have to keep going.

I'm not saying B:M is a single entity, but the actions of individual members can have a negative light on the whole group, the same as any other movement. Yes, they may not all be like that, but if some members are acting out, this has to be addressed and the group has to make it clear what they do and don't stand for.

What do you mean the "model minority?" Asians experience probably the worst racism right now, especially the Muslims. They get accused of being terrorists and even get their properties set on fire and suchlike. They are also far more likely to hear phrases like "go home" than blacks are. They have a lot lesser representation in the media, especially East Asians. They're frequently considered the most unattractive race and get their accents mocked. I'd say they have it far worse than blacks (not that it's a competition). Yet, this seems to not matter a jot to Black Lives Matter protesters - it's like they think blacks are the only ones who experience negative repercussions due to racism. The face of anti-racism should not be so self-centered.

He was a racist. "i'He thought blacks were "the original people of the world" and that whites were "white devils" created by an evil scientist called Yakub. His religion, Nation Of Islam, taught that blacks were superior to whites and that whites would one day be extinct. He wanted to get all blacks to convert to his religion, believing that the Christian religion that a lot of blacks are members of, was a white man's invention forced on them. He wanted the US government to pay reparations to all blacks. He thought blacks and whites should not co-exist. He was pro-segregation, wanting blacks to get their own region in the US and wanted them all to go back to Africa some day. He didn't agree with the civil rights movement's rule of nonviolence and encouraged blacks to resort to violence if need be.

Sure, he apparently changed over time but he still supported black nationalism and right up until his death, he still maintained that blacks had a right to achieve advancement through any means necessary. Maybe he truly was beginning to change or maybe it was all a cover when he got bad press. We'll never know. But there are plenty of people around today, even whites, who think he had the right ideas. And that concerns me.

"I"m not saying they're a single entity but that the actions of a few can have a bad effect on all, and I'm ignorant enough to now prejudge the entire group based off the actions of the few despite the fact that doesn't make alot of sense."

 

Asians as in Indian and East Asian in America, do not experience the "worst racism". 

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

17 minutes ago, VampireHeart said:

 

You obviously don't believe that people can change, your personal cynicism shows that. Remember that next time you defend Iggy btw.

 

http://islam.uga.edu/malcomx.html

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/saudiarabia/1387524/Mecca-made-Malcolm-X-change.html

 

I'm not a cynic, I'm realistic. I defend Iggy because there's no evidence that those tweets even existed (Photoshopping is a thing) and they expressed ignorance more than outright racism even if they were. The "runaway slavemaster" line was actually suggested to her by a black man, apparently, and she apologised for it. That's it. Nothing as serious as the stuff Malcolm X said. It's not even comparable. If I really am a cynic, well, being a bit cynical can  keep us safe, stops us trusting people who are suspicious, stops us getting hurt, etc. It's a great piece of human evolution. You should try it sometime.

1 minute ago, Soleils said:

"I"m not saying they're a single entity but that the actions of a few can have a bad effect on all, and I'm ignorant enough to now prejudge the entire group based off the actions of the few despite the fact that doesn't make alot of sense."

 

Asians as in Indian and East Asian in America, do not experience the "worst racism". 

I never said I judged the entire group, but there's a lot of bad apples that are spoiling things for those who genuinely want to make a difference. And that this can make some people tar the whole lot with the same brush. It's the same of all groups. Us Gaga fans should know that.

You really think they don't experience the worst racism? Indians in America say that they get mistaken for Muslims all the time and are therefore assumed to be terrorists. Islamaphobia is rife in America. And mocking East Asian accents and eye shape, making jokes about the men's small genitals and sexualising the women is routine. These complaints come from Asians in America. You have some nerve calling me ignorant.

[lego 44,165]

Nation of Islam is not Islam, it's a sect, a cult with their own prophet and opposing teachings. When Malcom X exposed Elijah Muhammed he was assassinated by 3 members of this cult.

And you don't believe in his change. Most people remember him by those quotes. And Christianity was religion of their white oppressors which was forced upon them, even icons of Jesus depict him as a white man and not Middle Eastern looking. Considering the time he lived in, I wouldn't blame him for some things.

 

1 minute ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm not a cynic, I'm realistic. I defend Iggy because there's no evidence that those tweets even existed (Photoshopping is a thing) and they expressed ignorance more than outright racism even if they were. The "runaway slavemaster" line was actually suggested to her by a black man, apparently, and she apologised for it. That's it. Nothing as serious as the stuff Malcolm X said. It's not even comparable. If I really am a cynic, well, being a bit cynical can  keep us safe, stops us trusting people who are suspicious, stops us getting hurt, etc. It's a great piece of human evolution. You should try it sometime.

 

 

Nice way of skipping and ignoring the links I gave you. 

How is Iggy's apology sincere? How would you know? Did she REALLY change? Can you prove those tweets were photoshopped? Didn't she apologize for them too? You're selective and biased.

And no thanks, I'd never want to be like you. 

[lego 44,165]

17 minutes ago, Soleils said:

"I"m not saying they're a single entity but that the actions of a few can have a bad effect on all, and I'm ignorant enough to now prejudge the entire group based off the actions of the few despite the fact that doesn't make alot of sense."

 

Asians as in Indian and East Asian in America, do not experience the "worst racism". 

 

She's talking from British perspective. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

1 minute ago, VampireHeart said:

Nation of Islam is not Islam, it's a sect, a cult with their own prophet and opposing teachings. When Malcom X exposed Elijah Muhammed he was assassinated by 3 members of this cult.

And you don't believe in his change. Most people remember him by those quotes. And Christianity was religion of their white oppressors which was forced upon them, even icons of Jesus depict him as a white man and not Middle Eastern looking. Considering the time he lived in, I wouldn't blame him for some things.

 

 

Nice way of skipping and ignoring the links I gave you. 

How is Iggy's apology sincere? How would you know? Did she REALLY change? Can you prove those tweets were photoshopped? Didn't she apologize for them too? You're selective and biased.

And no thanks, I'd never want to be like you. 

I didn't say it was Islam. Obviously, it's a twisted cult if they believe this stuff. But it was his religion, like it or not.

I dig deeper to find the truth. I find out if people really are who they say they are. There's a lot of shocking things about famous people that they don't want us to know about and would have you believe that they're nice people (Beyonce is a prime example of this). But you can never really trust anyone completely. People's history is very important to me and makes me consider whether to trust them or not. And Malcolm's is too questionable for me. The corruption in Christianity is irrelevant to this discussion. No religion is perfect anyway. There's reasons why whites depict Jesus as white sometimes but they're so obvious (and it would work the same in reverse) I won't waste time explaining. It's weird how you're somehow tying that in with slavery when it has no connection.

I didn't skip or ignore the links (ironic, as most people do it to me), I just didn't agree with them. I have no solid way of proving that Iggy is sincere but from her behaviour and the things she's said about race since then, she seems genuine to me (the fact she's alive to justify this change obviously helps too). It's a shame that very few people have seen how intelligent she truly is because they're so biased. She did a very good interview about how the signing of white rappers and suchlike isn't racist. I once posted it here and no one wanted to know. I like to think I'm a good judge of character and I've got a good vibe off her. The celebrities who I suspect of being bad eggs? I'm right 95% of the time. My years of being bullied ensures I know a snake in the grass when I see one and can sort out the fakes from the real deal.

Well, that's nice. Nice to speak to you too.

[Kermit 15,807]

Spoiler

 You guys are too much.

@Haroon can a mod lock this? 

[lego 44,165]

16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I didn't say it was Islam. Obviously, it's a twisted cult if they believe this stuff. But it was his religion, like it or not.

I dig deeper to find the truth. I find out if people really are who they say they are. There's a lot of shocking things about famous people that they don't want us to know about and would have you believe that they're nice people (Beyonce is a prime example of this). But you can never really trust anyone completely. People's history is very important to me and makes me consider whether to trust them or not. And Malcolm's is too questionable for me. The corruption in Christianity is irrelevant to this discussion. No religion is perfect anyway. There's reasons why whites depict Jesus as white sometimes but they're so obvious (and it would work the same in reverse) I won't waste time explaining. It's weird how you're somehow tying that in with slavery when it has no connection.

I didn't skip or ignore the links (ironic, as most people do it to me), I just didn't agree with them. I have no solid way of proving that Iggy is sincere but from her behaviour and the things she's said about race since then, she seems genuine to me (the fact she's alive to justify this change obviously helps too). It's a shame that very few people have seen how intelligent she truly is because they're so biased. She did a very good interview about how the signing of white rappers and suchlike isn't racist. I once posted it here and no one wanted to know. I like to think I'm a good judge of character and I've got a good vibe off her. The celebrities who I suspect of being bad eggs? I'm right 95% of the time. My years of being bullied ensures I know a snake in the grass when I see one and can sort out the fakes from the real deal.

Well, that's nice. Nice to speak to you too.

 

It's not a religion, it's a cult. Those two things are not the same. And he was no longer member of the cult after his trip to Mecca and he was killed because of that. I find it disrespectful to talk about him the way you do. You disagree with the links? Those are the evidences, his statements after Hajj, what is it you disagree with? His point of view at that time or you're implying he was lying? Idgi.

The rest of your post is you bragging about yourself as usual. I'm not interested in that.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

6 minutes ago, VampireHeart said:

 

It's not a religion, it's a cult. Those two things are not the same. And he was no longer member of the cult after his trip to Mecca and he was killed because of that. I find it disrespectful to talk about him the way you do. You disagree with the links? Those are the evidences, his statements after Hajj, what is it you disagree with? His point of view at that time or you're implying he was lying? Idgi.

The rest of your post is you bragging about yourself as usual. I'm not interested in that.

It doesn't really matter what it's referred to. Religion can refer to anything that someone makes #1 in their lives. Anything/anyone can be anyone's religion. We'll never be truly sure if he was lying or not because he's dead and he was an elusive person anyway. But simply put, I find it difficult to trust someone who was once as extreme as he was. It's hard to shake someone free of racism so strong. The best racist converts are the ones who were just a bit ignorant and followed the crowd. But trying to convert a racist who was pro segregation and thought whites were the bane of the world's existance? I don't think that's so easy to switch off. White racists who claim to have have changed are rarely believed, why do converted black racists get accepted without question?

I'm not bragging. Just stating my views. And we all have talents for things, don't we?

[lego 44,165]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It doesn't really matter what it's referred to. Religion can refer to anything that someone makes #1 in their lives. Anything/anyone can be anyone's religion. We'll never be truly sure if he was lying or not because he's dead and he was an elusive person anyway. But simply put, I find it difficult to trust someone who was once as extreme as he was. It's hard to shake someone free of racism so strong. The best racist converts are the ones who were just a bit ignorant and followed the crowd. But trying to convert a racist who was pro segregation and thought whites were the bane of the world's existance? I don't think that's so easy to switch off. White racists who claim to have have changed are rarely believed, why do converted black racists get accepted without question?

I'm not bragging. Just stating my views. And we all have talents for things, don't we?

You should know that he wasn't lying because he was murdered for that reason.

You are trash talking about a dead man who did more good than bad, who clearly stated his change and paid with his life. His daughter and close family and friends knew him better than...you. You don't have to believe, just don't claim that he was this and that when you're dismissing his own words and beliefs without any evidence.

And yes that was bragging.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

7 minutes ago, VampireHeart said:

You should know that he wasn't lying because he was murdered for that reason.

You are trash talking about a dead man who did more good than bad, who clearly stated his change and paid with his life. His daughter and close family and friends knew him better than...you. You don't have to believe, just don't claim that he was this and that when you're dismissing his own words and beliefs without any evidence.

And yes that was bragging.

And people who assassinate usually aren't in their right mind. They're fanatical, insane. The kind of people who could kill based on a misunderstanding. I'm sure a group as nuts as this one would react this way if they had the merest inkling that someone was changing their allegiance. It doesn't mean that he wasn't lying.

I stated facts about him before the change that can't be argued and my conclusions based on that. I even stated that we'll never know what he truly thought. That implies that I can't come to a solid conclusion about him. The X at the end of his name truly was fitting because he was so mysterious. I'm just highly doubtful, that's all. But his past cannot be denied. It's not like I'm spouting lies. You just don't agree with the conclusion I reached.

It's funny how one off-hand comment ended in this off-topic discussion.

[lego 44,165]

5 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And people who assassinate usually aren't in their right mind. They're fanatical, insane. The kind of people who could kill based on a misunderstanding. I'm sure a group as nuts as this one would react this way if they had the merest inkling that someone was changing their allegiance. It doesn't mean that he wasn't lying.

I stated facts about him before the change that can't be argued and my conclusions based on that. I even stated that we'll never know what he truly thought. That implies that I can't come to a solid conclusion about him. The X at the end of his name truly was fitting because he was so mysterious. I'm just highly doubtful, that's all. But his past cannot be denied. It's not like I'm spouting lies. You just don't agree with the conclusion I reached.

It's funny how one off-hand comment ended in this off-topic discussion.

 

His change and reasons which led to his death are well documented and cannot be denied either and they are more important, because that's what most people remember him by. He is well respected in black community and don't try to tell me how they're all anti-white and racist because of that. His early beliefs don't affect you either, you live in a different time and place.

I don't care if you're doubtful, if you studied Islam as you claimed before, you would know why - his trip to Mecca and going to Hajj, where he met real scholars and learned about Islam (he learned why NOI was wrong) - you would know why experience like that would change his mind. It doesn't even make sense, why would he lie and risk his life? What's the benefit? 

I'm sure there are things you thought were right in your life at one point, but later regret them and I'm sure you would hate it if people keep bringing them up and never trust you again. 

Yeah it's off topic, I'm just shocked by some of your statements. I actually thought before that I agree with you on most subjects. Not anymore.

Goodnight. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

21 minutes ago, VampireHeart said:

 

His change and reasons which led to his death are well documented and cannot be denied either and they are more important, because that's what most people remember him by. He is well respected in black community and don't try to tell me how they're all anti-white and racist because of that. His early beliefs don't affect you either, you live in a different time and place.

I don't care if you're doubtful, if you studied Islam as you claimed before, you would know why - his trip to Mecca and going to Hajj, where he met real scholars and learned about Islam (he learned why NOI was wrong) - you would know why experience like that would change his mind. It doesn't even make sense, why would he lie and risk his life? What's the benefit? 

I'm sure there are things you thought were right in your life at one point, but later regret them and I'm sure you would hate it if people keep bringing them up and never trust you again. 

Yeah it's off topic, I'm just shocked by some of your statements. I actually thought before that I agree with you on most subjects. Not anymore.

Goodnight. 

So, at most, he's a man who jumped from ideology to ideology and shouldn't have settled in such an extreme way on just one if he could be swayed that easily? Does that make you happy?

Yes, I've said things I regret in the past that I wouldn't want to be judged by in the present but they were just stuff that hardly affected anyone. I didn't have extremist views like his. Completely different situation. This is partly why I say it's hard to believe when someone switches their beliefs from one extreme to the next so easily. Maybe I'm just a stubborn person, but once I've made up my mind about something, that's pretty much it, as are most people. My views on certain things are so steadfast that no one could convince me differently because my research on the matters and my conviction in them is too strong. I don't believe that someone can have such racist, overblown ideals and then change so easily. Is that really so unreasonable?

You know, it breaks my heart when someone says that they don't think they can like me anymore because I happen to say something that they just don't agree with. I try so hard to make people like me and like to think we can be civil to people of all beliefs. It hurts that you'd be so dismissive of me because we see the world a slightly different way.

[Soleils 9]

2 hours ago, VampireHeart said:

 

She's talking from British perspective. 

I don't know where they're from, that's why I specified, in America.

[Soleils 9]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm not a cynic, I'm realistic. I defend Iggy because there's no evidence that those tweets even existed (Photoshopping is a thing) and they expressed ignorance more than outright racism even if they were. The "runaway slavemaster" line was actually suggested to her by a black man, apparently, and she apologised for it. That's it. Nothing as serious as the stuff Malcolm X said. It's not even comparable. If I really am a cynic, well, being a bit cynical can  keep us safe, stops us trusting people who are suspicious, stops us getting hurt, etc. It's a great piece of human evolution. You should try it sometime.

I never said I judged the entire group, but there's a lot of bad apples that are spoiling things for those who genuinely want to make a difference. And that this can make some people tar the whole lot with the same brush. It's the same of all groups. Us Gaga fans should know that.

You really think they don't experience the worst racism? Indians in America say that they get mistaken for Muslims all the time and are therefore assumed to be terrorists. Islamaphobia is rife in America. And mocking East Asian accents and eye shape, making jokes about the men's small genitals and sexualising the women is routine. These complaints come from Asians in America. You have some nerve calling me ignorant.

In America my dear Asians are considered the "model minority" and fair much better than Black and Hispanics.

Blacks in america meanwhile deal with much higher unemployment rates even for in demand jobs with same qualifications. I mean are you really now going to argue that the oh several hundred years of oppression plus the jim crow era ending oh barely over 50 years ago, and all the things that were done to target blacks in this country magically don't really matter?

 

"Indians get mistaken fro muslims!" Okay and so? Sorry to break it to you but America doesn't have as much anti-muslim sentiment as Europe in general does. You think only asians get mocked for accents and features, hah! Nerve to call you ignorant, if anything you've just proved you are a little bit more than ignorant, and just a touch worse my dear.

 

I mean let's look at the systemic issues within the justice system for a moment, a very very huge issue. Black and hispanics are more likely to end up in jail because they're more likely to be targets of investigations, because it's assumed they are up to no good. Think about stop and frisk for instance, whites were far more likely to have committed a crime when stopped while blacks and hispanics weren't. The reason for this was that blacks and hispanics were stopped at ridiculously high numbers, while only suspicious whites were stopped. 

 

Then you have to consider the fact that for crimes that are the same/similar black and hispanic minors are charged as adults many times over white and asians are. They get longer prison sentences, are more likely to be sentenced to death, and more likely to be killed as a result of it.

 

But no no, some people say Asians are terriorists and they say "ching chong" perhaps and stretch their eyes, but no such racist thing ever happens to blacks in this country, I mean that black church that was attacked by a white terrorist totally didn't happen because those issues don't exist in this country. The major issues are facing Asians.

 

Perhaps the problem is that issues face all minorities yet some people are highly sensitive to what the model minority faces.

 

She's talking from British perspective. 

I don't know where they're from, that's why I specified, in America.

[StrawberryBlond 13,287]

On 15/02/2016 at 10:22 PM, Soleils said:

In America my dear Asians are considered the "model minority" and fair much better than Black and Hispanics.

Blacks in america meanwhile deal with much higher unemployment rates even for in demand jobs with same qualifications. I mean are you really now going to argue that the oh several hundred years of oppression plus the jim crow era ending oh barely over 50 years ago, and all the things that were done to target blacks in this country magically don't really matter?

 

"Indians get mistaken fro muslims!" Okay and so? Sorry to break it to you but America doesn't have as much anti-muslim sentiment as Europe in general does. You think only asians get mocked for accents and features, hah! Nerve to call you ignorant, if anything you've just proved you are a little bit more than ignorant, and just a touch worse my dear.

 

I mean let's look at the systemic issues within the justice system for a moment, a very very huge issue. Black and hispanics are more likely to end up in jail because they're more likely to be targets of investigations, because it's assumed they are up to no good. Think about stop and frisk for instance, whites were far more likely to have committed a crime when stopped while blacks and hispanics weren't. The reason for this was that blacks and hispanics were stopped at ridiculously high numbers, while only suspicious whites were stopped. 

 

Then you have to consider the fact that for crimes that are the same/similar black and hispanic minors are charged as adults many times over white and asians are. They get longer prison sentences, are more likely to be sentenced to death, and more likely to be killed as a result of it.

 

But no no, some people say Asians are terriorists and they say "ching chong" perhaps and stretch their eyes, but no such racist thing ever happens to blacks in this country, I mean that black church that was attacked by a white terrorist totally didn't happen because those issues don't exist in this country. The major issues are facing Asians.

 

Perhaps the problem is that issues face all minorities yet some people are highly sensitive to what the model minority faces.

I have it on good authority that Asians do experience dreadful racism in America. You are clearly only coming at this from your personal perspective. I'm basing it on what Asian Americans are actually claiming. Your use of the term "model minority" is so racist but you are under the delusion it isn't, which says a lot.

You don't think being assumed to be of the wrong nationality and religion is deeply offensive? And to then be assumed to be a terrorist because of this untrue assumption? Have a bit of empathy. Of course America has a lot of anti Muslim sentiment - this is where 9/11 happened! That moment has demonised Muslims ever since. Now, of course blacks can get mocked based on accents and features too, but it's nowhere near the same level, lets be real.

The justice system is general is a mess everywhere. Everyone is suffering for it. In America, it's a lot worse than others. I haven't watched that series, Making A Murderer, but apparently it talks about the problems with how cops operate. It says that if you were the only person at the scene of the crime, they'll find it hard not to believe you did it and are unlikely to drop this impression, even when evidence is provided to the contrary. Also, if you're poor and/or uneducated, your chances of being implicated are even higher. This means it covers all races. I read up on crime stories all the time and I read an extraordinary amount of stories of unjust imprisonments of whites, some who were put on death row, even though there was no evidence implicating them as guilty whatsoever. There are so many factors at work in deciding what your fate is. Gender is a massive one - the police are just less likely to suspect women and give them shorter jail sentances, particularly if they have children. And I say this as a woman. This is why jails are mostly full of men. Yes, there is a problem in the amount of blacks and Hispanics being arrested and jailed but are you saying the ones who are genuinely guilty shouldn't go down for what they did? If you're guilty, you pay, if you're innocent, you go free. America is still working out this equation but it's nuts to start painting all convicts as victims of racism when we don't know the full story and because it's the PC way to be.

I never said blacks don't experience bad racism. They do, but some of it arises from issues they themselves have made the conscious decision to be a part of. They chose to get into gangs, do drugs, pull drive bys, steal and suchlike. Yes, being poor can sometimes drive people to do these things, but plenty of poor people don't. Sometimes, you have to look at the real cause of the problem. Plenty of poor people live within the law, no matter how many jobs they have to work to do so. If you're poor but make the right life decisions, you're far more likely to survive and do well in the world. But some people don't want to take responsibility for their actions and put the blame on outside factors. Do you think poor white people who commit crime are to blame for their lives not working out? If so, why do you give a free pass to blacks?

No, I'm not sensitive to what the "model minority" faces. I care about all issues affecting all minorities. Which is why I'd like to see them all at the forefront. For them all to be on the same level and treated with the same amount of respect and gravitas. And we won't get that if you start ranking minorities and giving them sub sections.