What about Bartholomew?

[Head Empty 22,847]

1 hour ago, Didymus said:

Spoiler

 

The only way to test if a character is necessary is to ask yourself: what did it add? What did it add to the season? What did it add to the narrative? Could the character easily have been removed without a real impact on any of the character's movements?

I honestly can't answer those questions with anything sensible except for the last one: yes. Writing a good script is about making sure that everything has a purpose and that everything you write adds to the narrative. Everything else is a distraction that weighs down the screenplay. This is actually the professional outlook and I did a year (granted, only a year but it was enough) of film school and I was literally taught this: anything that doesn't add to the narrative development should be discarded.

I agree that a character can show up, do something important and then disappear, but in this case that doesn't apply. In the case of Bartholomew, the viewer was presented with an introduction. We saw where the character came from, we saw what it could do, we saw the danger of it breaking out (that's called a set-up) and we saw its mysterious character at the end, the episode climax where we saw its face.

All of that is set-up material. But then he never showed. So literally everything you did is a waste and it's just a way to carry the story further without really having anything happen that was central to anyone's storyline. 'cause really, it wasn't central and it could've been easily removed and no one would've cared or felt like something was missing. That's bad writing. And again: even if he appears again in the finale, it's still bad writing for the reason I mentioned above.

Well, agreed, but what subplots were developed by Bartholomew? What did we gain? What did we learn? What did its presence add to the next episodes? Absolutely nothing. That's a problem. And that's the problem I'm talking about.

I mean, sure about keeping things to the viewer's imagination but in this case that's not even an option. Bartholomew is just in his room, the end. We know he's dangerous but nothing's happening. The end. We know the Countess loves him as a child, but then again, she also has those other kids she loves and apparently she loves them more than Bartholomew, so again: what's the relevance? What do we gain as viewers?

That's just my pov and I think it's legit.

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

Spoiler

 

1) Horrifying baby spawn with implications of being born as an incomplete child. That is pretty horrifying on its own. It doesn't help that it's actually sentient and moves around.

2) Humanizes the Countess and shows that she actually has feelings towards children. Before Bartholomew, we didn't know about her relationship with the kids. How many people were surprised how hesitant she was to have to essentially drain her kids to death to get better in the penultimate episode? It's because they didn't actually think about the implications of Bartholomew such as yourself.

3) Connection with previous AHS series. Call it fanservice. It's not as if that doesn't make people happy.

 

 

I think both of you make good points. It's not that the character of Bartholomew is bad or useless, but the way the character was used in the season is very clumsy. As with a lot of arcs in this season, tension is created for a single episode to the point where it can sometimes be considered a cliffhanger, but in the end that tension is not resolved and dissapears into the next arc that is created. It doesn't just happen with Bartholomew, but also with quite a handful of other stories. Off the top of my head these include the mattress man, addiction demon, the Naomi Campbell character, Donovan/Iris, the Halloween murderers, vampire kids and arguably also the Liz/Tristan story. All these stories were hugely featured in the episode where they were introduced, but never truely impacted the main arcs and never really got the closure/climax that they were set up to receive. They're efficient ways to make exciting episodes, but horribly inefficient to steadily and cohesively build tension thoughout an entire season.

[Edit: put your quotes in spoilers because of length]

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

26 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

#1 is basically meaningless.

 

Why? AHS is a horror show and this is a horror element.

Perhaps it means nothing to you, but it may have for others.

Children carry a lot of emotional baggage and are frequently used as source of horror.

Not to mention it was creepy as ****. 

Seeing Bartholomew's face was the 1st time I cringed in horror on the show. Not even the rape scene fazed me.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

10 minutes ago, Totodile said:

 

I think both of you make good points. It's not that the character of Bartholomew is bad or useless, but the way the character was used in the season is very clumsily. As with a lot of arcs in this season, tension is created for a single episode to the point where it can sometimes be considered a cliffhanger, but in the end that tension is not resolved and dissapears into the next arc that is created. It doesn't just happen with Bartholomew, but also with quite a handful of other stories. Off the top of my head these include the mattress man, addiction demon, Donovan/Iris, the Halloween murderers, vampire kids and arguably also the Liz/Tristan story. All these stories were hugely featured in the episode where they were introduced, but never truely impacted the main arcs and never really got the closure/climax that they were set up to receive. They're efficient ways to make exciting episodes, but horribly inefficient to steadily and cohesively build tension thoughout an entire season.

They're simply doodads. They're there to spice up and add horror to the show. They don't necessarily have to be connected to the main plot.

Compare it to a drama show. Imagine a scene where the main actress is smoking a cigarette in a lobby and talking to a stranger. They talk about seemingly irrelevant things. Maybe she's a lawyer and the stranger talks to her about the unfairness of the system. It may be there to set up the setting and the mood, but is potentially irrelevant to the plot. It doesn't matter.

Not to mention it keeps you on your toes in anticipation of a continuation or closure. Sometimes you don't get one. Maybe you're disappointed, but why did you expect anything to come of it? What's going to happen? Often it's best left to the imagination. That's more horrifying than the real thing.

Edit: Also the show isn't over. Some of them may yet be resolved.

[Anastasios 573]

without bartholomew we wouldnt have seen the connection to the murderhouse

 

[Head Empty 22,847]

25 minutes ago, LebaneseDude said:

They're simply doodads. They're there to spice up and add horror to the show. They don't necessarily have to be connected to the main plot.

Compare it to a drama show. Imagine a scene where the main actress is smoking a cigarette in a lobby and talking to a stranger. They talk about seemingly things. Maybe she's a lawyer and the stranger talks to her about the unfairness of the system. It sets up the setting and the mood, but is potentially irrelevant to the plot. It doesn't matter.

I agree that these things might be needed in some way to flesh out character arcs, but the storylines I mentioned barely serve in the way that you describe. The writers spent huge chunks of an episode to build Bartholomews character and added creepiness and suspense surrounding his being - only to barely ever reference this supposed threat in the coming episodes. As I said, it made for one enticing episode arc, but it did not have much purpose for the rest of the season.

As for what you said about him in relation to The Countess: they could've easily achieved the same thing by using the blond kids. Those characters were already introduced even before the season had started, but were criminally underused later on (with the exception of Holden). Their creepy innocence alone would've been enough to humanize The Countess, while keeping a consistent and imminent threat within the Hotel. Plus it would increase the impact of their final scene with The Countess in Episode 11. It would only make the plot more focussed.

Perhaps the finale will redeem some of what I said in here, but for the most part I have to agree with @Didymusin saying that there are certainly some amateurish writer-related flaws that are already set in stone.

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

23 minutes ago, Totodile said:

Perhaps the finale will redeem some of what I said in here, but for the most part I have to agree with @Didymusin saying that there are certainly some amateurish writer-related flaws that are already set in stone.

I think you may be taking AHS a little too seriously. It's clear that the lack of subplot coherence is intentional. Some things are just there because they are cool, fun, or scary to see. That is all. 

TV shows do it all the time. It's more of an issue in movies.

[lavenderblondee 3,695]

3 hours ago, Didymus said:

Omg I totally forgot about this.

Another plotline going nowhere I guess.

that's how I feel with most of the plots this season.

[Judas Oyster 1,868]

*running away so I don't read this thread*

Idk if this is for the newest episode but if it is then you could have put a spoiler or something 

 

fcccckk I read the post above me

ok bye I'm gonna act like I didn't read this =)

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

44 minutes ago, Judas Oyster said:

*running away so I don't read this thread*

Idk if this is for the newest episode but if it is then you could have put a spoiler or something 

 

fcccckk I read the post above me

ok bye I'm gonna act like I didn't read this =)

It's AHS on a Gaga site what were you expecting

[Schwerk 6,556]

47 minutes ago, Judas Oyster said:

*running away so I don't read this thread*

Idk if this is for the newest episode but if it is then you could have put a spoiler or something 

 

fcccckk I read the post above me

ok bye I'm gonna act like I didn't read this =)

Wait what?

The finale hasn't aired yet. There's no spoilers in here, just theories.

[Judas Oyster 1,868]

1 hour ago, LebaneseDude said:

It's AHS on a Gaga site what were you expecting

a spoiler tag

[Judas Oyster 1,868]

1 hour ago, Marjol said:

Wait what?

The finale hasn't aired yet. There's no spoilers in here, just theories.

are u being real now? or just making me read it? 

it's thursday in Norway so don't know if its out yet xd

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

1 minute ago, Judas Oyster said:

a spoiler tag

Once again you're in the AHS section on a Lady Gaga website. The entire subforum is full of spoilers.

[Judas Oyster 1,868]

Just now, LebaneseDude said:

Once again you're in the AHS section on a Lady Gaga website. The entire subforum is full of spoilers.

You got a point, I just didn't see it was the AHS section and don't know who Bartholomew is, so by the threads title I didn't know what it was about until it almost was too late :P 

[LebaneseDude 6,146]

Just now, Judas Oyster said:

You got a point, I just didn't see it was the AHS section and don't know who Bartholomew is, so by the threads title I didn't know what it was about until it almost was too late :P 

Ah well sorry about that.