LG5: The return to quality?

[Didymus 34,379]

@Imperial POP

People are being too nice tbh. Keep you disrespectful attitude out of here, this thread isn't even about whether or not the albums deserve to be called good or bad, so any more comments about it I will report for flamebait and derailing tbh. This is a forum for god's sake If you have to actually quote someone to say you don't respect their opinion then maybe you should take some time off since dealing with opinions other than yours is like the most basic thing you need to be able to do here.

[giskardsb 12,565]

In actual response to the OP, I do hope Gaga takes time to produce the best she feels capable of.  I don't think that means a return to TF/M tho, I think she's really concentrating on whatever she really wants to be known as, as an artist, and probably concentrating  more on songwriting. I hope so anyway since I really want to know if she can live up to that songwriting award. 

[Didymus 34,379]

3 minutes ago, PoshLife said:

I'm late to the discussion, but I've seen so many artists that I follow lately talking trash about their previous work. I know it's mostly to hype the new stuff, but it makes me feel weird in a way that's hard to articulate. It's just like, okay so can I get my money back if you admit it's no good?

It's just sort of a slight to fans who have stuck by her through those supposedly low-quality eras. Should we not have?

Good point.

My fan experience is different, but when I think of all the LM's being sucked into the industry game and "over-supporting" her (as in almost dedicating their life to make her more commercially successful - something she didn't really try to stop, and in some cases she encouraged it) during BTW and ARTPOP I do feel a bit bitter.

That's what pop artists do though.. Meh. Don't know. But didn't think of it like that.

[Bambino 24,288]

I hope she's taking her time to finish the album and I hope things will done right this time. Because if they aren't done right, and the album doesn't turn out to do the way she or her label wanted, you know, she's just gonna do an interview and make more excuses about how she wasn't given time to finish the album, or how she was forced to do things, and how things were just so messy so she had to do things quickly, and all that. Y'all know it.

I just think y'all shouldn't take what she's saying very seriously. Watch her do another interview, and say completely different things.

[Benji 20,113]

7 minutes ago, PoshLife said:

I'm late to the discussion, but I've seen so many artists that I follow lately talking trash about their previous work. I know it's mostly to hype the new stuff, but it makes me feel weird in a way that's hard to articulate. It's just like, okay so can I get my money back if you admit it's no good?

It's just sort of a slight to fans who have stuck by her through those supposedly low-quality eras. Should we not have?

We all grow as people and artists though.

If you're active on Social media, take a look at the app Timehop and be prepared to cringe. I've written statuses on Facebook that regardless of likes at the time or whatever are awful to reread. I've produced work I was immensely proud of in the past but I know I can create stronger work now. I'm also aware of circumstances having an effect on that work or post on Facebook.

It's worth noting that Gaga hasn't once said that Born This Way or ARTPOP are bad, she's just realised in hindsight that neither were created at times she felt she was at her best, she's not even contradicted herself that much when it comes to ARTPOP. She said the album is an explosion of her rage, then on reflection she realised that rage caused her to create something she wasn't truly happy with... a bit like writing an angry tweet. You think you're expressing yourself perfectly but on reflection, you were so under the influence of your anger that you didn't write what you wanted to.

[Didymus 34,379]

2 minutes ago, Benji said:

We all grow as people and artists though.

If you're active on Social media, take a look at the app Timehop and be prepared to cringe. I've written statuses on Facebook that regardless of likes at the time or whatever are awful to reread. I've produced work I was immensely proud of in the past but I know I can create stronger work now. I'm also aware of circumstances having an effect on that work or post on Facebook.

It's worth noting that Gaga hasn't once said that Born This Way or ARTPOP are bad, she's just realised in hindsight that neither were created at times she felt she was at her best, she's not even contradicted herself that much when it comes to ARTPOP. She said the album is an explosion of her rage, then on reflection she realised that rage caused her to create something she wasn't truly happy with... a bit like writing an angry tweet. You think you're expressing yourself perfectly but on reflection, you were influenced by your anger.

That's nice.

And it does sound logical (the Timehop omg, I feel ya), on the other hand I'm not sure it covers everything PoshLife said. It's not so much about delivering an album, thinking it's fantastic and then in hindsight realizing it actually wasn't that amazing. Gaga is not talking about something like that, she's referring to entire phases of her career being under enormous label pressure and it affecting her work (and not just musically, in the same interview she said that, visually, it's even more palpable that she's being pulled in a hundred directions). That's not something you don't notice in the moment.

So I'm not sure.

I also found a subtle difference in tone here.

2014: Gaga stated she never changed herself, despite the industry pressure, and she never gave up on her authenticity. Then, to my annoyance, she claimed that if she ever had to do that, she would go back to singing in bars and she'd be perfectly happy there.

2016: Gaga states she "tried her best" to stay true to her authenticity but at the same time she literally refers to two specific albums as examples of what happens when she is allowed to breathe and genuinely create. As in the Billboard interview, she says that she can't function properly as an artist in the situation she was in during ARTPOP (and now apparently also during BTW). I mean, you remember her saying that she was telling herself "you're too good for this ****" while writing for ARTPOP. So she did know when she was in it but she still slapped a smile on her face and proclaimed that ARTPOP was her best album to date. Like she says in this interview: she became a doll just trying to stay in the game.

it's that kind of.. it's not really lying (though, is it?) but I think that does give more weight to what PoshLife is saying. This isn't some hindsight thing and she was only ever honest with us when everything collapsed. And I'm not that cynical, but I do think there's a possibility she's only being honest now because to say anything else but "I screwed up but I can do better" would be a career suicide.

[GawdGa 1,399]

get that promo fame and fame monster!! 

LG5 is gonna be a showcase of gaga's raw talent

[Miky 9,491]

6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

you remember her saying that she was telling herself "you're too good for this ****" while writing for ARTPOP

Can you give me a link to this interview or where it was please? I would love to read it

[Didymus 34,379]

4 minutes ago, Miky said:

Can you give me a link to this interview or where it was please? I would love to read it

http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/women-in-music/6784920/lady-gaga-billboard-woman-of-the-year-2015-cover-story

The part I mentioned is under the "WHEN DID YOU BECOME THE FASHIONABLE ROBOT?" subtitle (two subtitles above the timeline at the bottom fo the article).

[Miky 9,491]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

http://www.billboard.com/articles/events/women-in-music/6784920/lady-gaga-billboard-woman-of-the-year-2015-cover-story

The part I mentioned is under the "WHEN DID YOU BECOME THE FASHIONABLE ROBOT?" subtitle? (two subtitles above the timeline at the bottom fo the article).

Thank you!

[Chic 20,830]

As a songwriter, my opinions change on my work all the time. That can be delicate based on life and attitude changes, and I can't imagine how it must be for Gaga, who's been in the public eye so much as one of the world's biggest pop stars for many years, has constant criticism, and goes through stages of depression. It's not difficult to see why album reception might change her views on her music! Also, the mindset can be vastly different and cause there to be a disconnect between quality in her mind, and the newest sparks shine the brightest.

I wrote a song called Opiate Lips last year about this dude I dated who was a total pothead, as depressed as I was and generally not a guy you'd show off to your parents...or anyone, for that matter. And I had this very sullen attitude coursing through the song, but I was writing about a type I liked at the time. It was hypnotic R&B.

Now I'm dating someone who's entirely respectable and would be a joy to show off to my father (if he gave a **** ) and my music has become more soothing, pleasant, loving and reserved. There are songs from last year I really can't connect with anymore, entire album concepts I concocted that I just don't feel represent me the same way. That affects how I feel about them. I'm sure it happens with Gaga too, and although she may be disappointed, she probably understands that they in some form represent chapters of her life to her.

[blackstar 11,512]

ARTPOP is my favourite album (because I became a fan of her in ARTPOP era) but The Fame Monster is the best one. With the song lyrics, the music, concept, visuals... Born This Way and The Fame are amazing as well but not as much as The Fame Monster. ARTPOP has amazing instrumentals but the lyrics are not the best. Even she said by herself that while she was working on ARTPOP that she was focusing on the beats more than actuall lyrics so... (sorry for bad engllish)

[ViviLittleM 3]

Just now, mxe98 said:

ARTPOP is my favourite album (because I became a fan of her in ARTPOP era) but The Fame Monster is the best one. With the song lyrics, the music, concept, visuals... Born This Way and The Fame are amazing as well but not as much as The Fame Monster. ARTPOP has amazing instrumentals but the lyrics are not the best. Even she said by herself that while she was working on ARTPOP that she was focusing on the beats more than actuall lyrics so... (sorry for bad engllish)

Recycled instrumentals

[Didymus 34,379]

8 minutes ago, Chic said:

and although she may be disappointed, she probably understands that they in some form represent chapters of her life to her.

Absolutely, she admits that.

But, still, I'm gonna keep pushing against your take on it (represented by the rest of your post), because:

"I couldn’t write for two f---ing years. For ARTPOP, I was doing beats instead. I didn’t want to be near that damn [piano]. It was too emotional. I would start to play and sing, and my mind would go, ‘You are way too talented for this ****. F---, your voice sounds good. F---, that’s a beautiful chord. F---, that’s an amazing lyric. Why are you letting these people run you into the ground? When did you become the fashionable robot?’ Can’t being an artist be enough? Is talent ever the thing? I think for Adele it is. I think for Bruno Mars it is. But that’s what I learned from working with Tony: If talent isn’t the thing, then you are way off-base."

+ her saying she became a doll just trying to stay in the game instead of being an artist in this interview. I get your logic, but you're not listening to what she says. This is about not even being able to create something up to your standards because of outer pressure and I see no reason to state that she somehow didn't realize that until everything crashed.

Sure, the epiphany and the change of direction came later, but it's not like she somehow didn't realize the amounts of pressure she was under and didn't notice how it was affecting her creativity. The fact that she didn't want to be anywhere near her main writing device is proof that she knew exactly what was going on but kept following the direction she thought people needed from her (also implied in both interviews). To me, it seems that the shattering of the latter idea is really what allowed her to break free at all.

[Benji 20,113]

27 minutes ago, Didymus said:

That's nice.

And it does sound logical (the Timehop omg, I feel ya), on the other hand I'm not sure it covers everything PoshLife said. It's not so much about delivering an album, thinking it's fantastic and then in hindsight realizing it actually wasn't that amazing. Gaga is not talking about something like that, she's referring to entire phases of her career being under enormous label pressure and it affecting her work (and not just musically, in the same interview she said that, visually, it's even more palpable that she's being pulled in a hundred directions). That's not something you don't notice in the moment.

So I'm not sure.

I also found a subtle difference in tone here.

2014: Gaga stated she never changed herself, despite the industry pressure, and she never gave up on her authenticity. Then, to my annoyance, she claimed that if she ever had to do that, she would go back to singing in bars and she'd be perfectly happy there.

2016: Gaga states she "tried her best" to stay true to her authenticity but at the same time she literally refers to two specific albums as examples of what happens when she is allowed to breathe and genuinely create. As in the Billboard interview, she says that she can't function properly as an artist in the situation she was in during ARTPOP (and now apparently also during BTW). I mean, you remember her saying that she was telling herself "you're too good for this ****" while writing for ARTPOP. So she did know when she was in it but she still slapped a smile on her face and proclaimed that ARTPOP was her best album to date. Like she says in this interview: she became a doll just trying to stay in the game.

it's that kind of.. it's not really lying (though, is it?) but I think that does give more weight to what PoshLife is saying. This isn't some hindsight thing and she was only ever honest with us when everything collapsed. And I'm not that cynical, but I do think there's a possibility she's only being honest now because to say anything else but "I screwed up but I can do better" would be a career suicide.

*There's so much to get through here eek

She's always given off the impression of being in control at that current point in time without letting much slip about any issues behind set until that time has passed. I meant in general though, it's quite easy to look back on and rationalise issues when you're not living in the effects of them. She was bound to be aware at the time as well, but could she come out and say "This isn't me" because as you say, to say anything else other than "this is my best etc." would be career suicide.

* I was writing like a massive essay, then realised I went down a massive tangent so I'll save it for another time