PETA protest at Gaga's car outside Billboard Event

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

On 12/11/2015 at 7:38 AM, MonsterMum said:

Fur looks good, so stone me.

Have you ever seen a video of an animal skinned alive for it's skin? Yeah, it happens. Not always, but as long as this industry exists, animals are enslaved and tortured for their skin. Disgusting, no aesthetic no matter how 'beautiful' is worth the suffering of another being.

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

18 hours ago, PMKKARDASHiAN said:

Did they really tho?   Yea I don't own slaves. Fukking shoot me for liking meat... half the animals in nature eat other animals... your argument holds no merit

Are we obligate carnivores? No, we are on the very low spectrum of omnivores, however we can survive perfectly well on a plant based diet. and the average vegan has way less of a carbon footprint than any environmentally conscious meat eater. Also way less water, land space, way more efficient environmentally. Your 'other animals' argument is invalid, we have no requirement for animal flesh unlike carnivorous animals.

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

23 hours ago, Born To Slay said:

My point there was just that our society isn't really humane and morality isn't 100% objective. And you can help stop the torture by not participating in it. 

 

23 hours ago, Didymus said:

Well, that's why they're so unbelievable, though

Our society just doesn't work that way. How the hell can you purify the food industry without purifying everything else? Doesn't the same "if you don't need it to survive, go without it" argument apply everywhere in human society? Because it does, but people don't give a **** about that. They don't want to survive, they wanna live and they think that consuming means living.

If you're not gonna tackle thàt underlying pattern, I don't see the point of calling for change in one area of society just because animals look so cute and innocent and helpless, 'cause even if you succeed, there will still be similar issues you ignored even though they involve actual people. I can't help but laugh at people who are proud of not eating meat while they don't pay attention to any other dimension in their lives. I'm not saying everyone needs to be perfect and change the world, I'm just saying that the underlying arguments of these people and organizations like PETA rarely make any sense which is why they'll never command much attention and support.

The difference between animal welfare and other issues is that choosing to eat animal products is becomjng ridiculously easy in a society where plant foods are so abundant (obviously excluding food deserts and a small minority of the world). What are you suggesting, just because we can't be perfect and not avoid causing any harm by simply living life, we shouldn't care at all? Eg. Try living without using fossil fuels, it would be bloody hard. Try living without buying electronics or products made in unethical conditions... you'd literally have to give up most of what you own... but try living without animal products? Easy - you can live a perfectly healthy life & contribute way less to global warming and the destruction of our environment, and not to mention you don't contribute to ~ 70 billion animals who are enslaved & suffer unnecessarily. It's not a black and white issue, veganism is not about being perfect but causing minimal harm to the living & feeling beings we share this planet with.

[mister max 18,480]

gags looks very bothered  

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

13 hours ago, ARTPOPdidntflop said:

We're omnivores, not carnivores

Technically true, yes... i think of omnivores on a spectrum, eg. you have humans whose 'optimum' diet is very low in animals products, and you have dogs on the other end of the omnivorous spectrum who can survive entirely on meat but can also digest plants. We can live perfectly healthy lives without any form of animal products. Animal products are not necessary for humans, therefore it is a choice whether we farm & butcher animals. If you reject violence, it's only logical for the majority of the western world to go vegan, or at the very least vegetarian with the exception of ethically raised eggs & honey.

[JackTheTripper 866]

There is apsolutley no reason to use fur from skinned and tortured animals, with todays tehnology and craftsmmasnhip, since sintetcic fur can have the same propertis, if you are into fur. If you are using, or wearing real fur-i´m sorry you are bad person, and you have no excuse. Having said that you shpuld also know That PETA is a horrible organization, End does not justify the means, they are cruel, unethical and pure mean... while i  stand in favour of those that say that every form of human life deserve the right to live and be respected, PETA has proved with their actions  that they are bullys and   hate people. it is not jus opinion its common fact.... Support the organizations that deserve to be supported.... 

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

4 hours ago, ARTPOPdidntflop said:

This makes no sense.

 

I think you should educate yourself from something that isn't frilly internet sources. This is just random facts thrown in together.

Correlation doesn't = Causation

Prior to the 1980s, rural Asians (somewhere close to ~500 million people) subsisted on rice. These are some of the leanest, healthiest people on record, and ever since the western boom in China, obesity & lifestyle related disease has skyrocketed (other factors also include environmental toxins among other things, but diet is key). The Okinawans are another example, whose diet formerly consisted of ~60-70% sweet potatoes, some rice, and under 5% animal protein... I can link to many more population studies if interested. In my opinion, the 'optimal' & natural human diet is probably that which has a tiny bit of animal protein, eg. small insects, bivalves & other small creatures... (this would be most similar to chimpanzees, our closest relatives) and the rest coming from starches (humans unlike chimpanzees have evolved to better digest starchy foods, we have more copies of the enzyme amylase in our saliva which helps to digest complex carbohydrates), fruits, vegetables, and some nuts and seeds (this study comes to mind which identifies the role of starches in human evolution http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2015/08/10/starchy-carbs--not-a-paleo-diet--advanced-the-human-race.html) However, in the world we live in where it so incredibly easy to replace that small amount of animal protein with other foods & a b12 supplement, why the hell wouldn't we? In terms of health, there is absolutely no evidence in all of the medical literature that grains, legumes & other starchy foods (eg. potatoes, root vegetables), which funnily enough are demonised by the western world (how many people do you know who think potatoes, rice & fruit (omgz sugar) make you fat?) are anything but beneficial to the average human. However, you will find literally HUNDREDS of studies which associate the world's leading causes of death (heart disease, type 2 diabetes, certain types of cancer, hypertension etc.) with animal protein, specifically red meats & dairy (which is ****ing breast milk for baby cows lets be honest) & (the World Health Organisation's recent classification of processed and red meats as class 1 & 2 carcinogens will hopefully wake up a few people into realising how unessential and potentially harmful animal protein is for us.)  A vegan diet is recognised as healthy by all major dietetic associations (though the position paper which says this was retracted a few years ago for misleading information but general message still valid), it is perfectly clear that a plant based diet is not only cheap, but the most environmentally sustainable diet (in a world of 7 billion where a large percentage go hungry, why the **** is half of the grain grown in the world fed to animals who westerners have the 'choice' to eat? It makes no sense, it's so incredibly inefficient and takes up way more land & water than any plant based diet). I could go on and on, and it is certainly good to have discussions on both sides of the argument which clearly I enjoy doing but it's pretty obvious at this point in time that the majority of the human population needs to move away from meat and animal protein onto something less cruel, more sustainable & less artery clogging. 

[Better Day 5,766]

Fur is ok if the animal has died naturally. 

[Dominic 11,922]

I detest those who choose to wear fur and I'm very big on animal rights and take part in a lot of charity work however I am also hypocritical as I eat meat so I find it difficult to judge.  

[AgusPop 4,141]

 

[ARTPOPdidntflop 3,987]

8 hours ago, kevinthesheep said:

Technically true, yes... i think of omnivores on a spectrum, eg. you have humans whose 'optimum' diet is very low in animals products, and you have dogs on the other end of the omnivorous spectrum who can survive entirely on meat but can also digest plants. We can live perfectly healthy lives without any form of animal products. Animal products are not necessary for humans, therefore it is a choice whether we farm & butcher animals. If you reject violence, it's only logical for the majority of the western world to go vegan, or at the very least vegetarian with the exception of ethically raised eggs & honey.

Being vegan isn't cost effective though. It is a privileged lifestyle.

[FlopFan 71]

Like many people sayed I'm against fur and killing animals for money benefits  but at same time I'm not contributing eating it  so there is a hypocritical statement. In the other hand it's sad how powerful this industry is. In my country there are laws to regulate these illegal practices with animals.

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

4 hours ago, ARTPOPdidntflop said:

Being vegan isn't cost effective though. It is a privileged lifestyle.

It's a misconception, vegan CAN be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. The cheapest staple foods are all vegan by default - rice, oats, maize, potatoes, beans & legumes, & other certain vegetables. I guess it is a matter of educating people and families how to cook with these foods, as a lot of people especially those on a lower income opt for fast food which per calorie is generally more expensive than what could be prepared at home. Also an issue of government subsidies - last time i checked in the US, 63% of subsidies which turns out to be around $20 billion, go towards meat and dairy farmers & animal feed - it's a complex process but essentially means that these products cost less. If this amount of money were put towards growing fruits, vegetables and other human crops, we could see dirt cheap produce. It's all a matter of money and unfortunately the food industry doesn't generally have the best interest of the people at heart. 

[ARTPOPdidntflop 3,987]

41 minutes ago, kevinthesheep said:

It's a misconception, vegan CAN be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. The cheapest staple foods are all vegan by default - rice, oats, maize, potatoes, beans & legumes, & other certain vegetables. I guess it is a matter of educating people and families how to cook with these foods, as a lot of people especially those on a lower income opt for fast food which per calorie is generally more expensive than what could be prepared at home. Also an issue of government subsidies - last time i checked in the US, 63% of subsidies which turns out to be around $20 billion, go towards meat and dairy farmers & animal feed - it's a complex process but essentially means that these products cost less. If this amount of money were put towards growing fruits, vegetables and other human crops, we could see dirt cheap produce. It's all a matter of money and unfortunately the food industry doesn't generally have the best interest of the people at heart. 

It's just not realistic unless the prices of those foods are lowered. Also not everyone has the time to lead a vegan lifestyle. McDonalds is very very very cheap

[kevinthesheep 2,947]

1 hour ago, ARTPOPdidntflop said:

It's just not realistic unless the prices of those foods are lowered. Also not everyone has the time to lead a vegan lifestyle. McDonalds is very very very cheap

By buying & cooking in bulk, cooking vegan dishes such as soups/curries/stews/pasta dishes etc. as well as having breakfast staples like oatmeal can be cheaper than any meal containing meat or dairy. Despite that, I completely understand what you're saying that most people will favour convenience over ~15-20 minutes of food preparation, and unfortunately the fact is that the most some people know about food and nutrition comes from the very same people that are trying to sell them junk food (tv, media, government programs etc.)