How in anyway is ARTPOP flopping Gaga's fault?

[Whispering 18,865]

It didn't flop.

2.3 worldwide, 2 top 10 pop hits and a tour that was in the top ten of the year is not a flop era. If that is a flop era, then there are only one or two females every year who don't flop. I could list some albums that did flop in the last couple of years, but they would be from females that members here worship....so I won't.  

[Didymus 32,781]

6 minutes ago, CurlyBae said:

She did not..

"For ARTPOP, I was doing beats instead. I didn’t want to be near that damn [piano]. It was too emotional. I would start to play and sing, and my mind would go, ‘You are way too talented for this ****. F---, your voice sounds good. F---, that’s a beautiful chord. F---, that’s an amazing lyric. Why are you letting these people run you into the ground? When did you become the fashionable robot?’ Can’t being an artist be enough? Is talent ever the thing? I think for Adele it is. I think for Bruno Mars it is. But that’s what I learned from working with Tony: If talent isn’t the thing, then you are way off-base."

"This is the year I did what I wanted instead of trying to keep up with what I thought everyone else wanted from me."

That's enough for me.

No, she didn't say the album sucked, obviously, but it wasn't the truthful, daring, boundary-crushing artistic expression she and we wanted for a number of reasons. I don't see why there's anything wrong with admitting that.

[JbGaga 2,261]

Most annoying thing Gaga does for me personally is blame everyone for her mistakes or mis calculations or just ish in general. Take ownership in how you can fix it and move on. It was not well revived, It was poorly executed, and dint live up to expectations, Thats ok . However I do think we have beaten this ARTPOP thing to death. It is really really really really really x20 time to move on people. Seriously ARTPOP has been over for idk how long.

 

Over it, Still love Gaga and im waiting for the next masterpiece

[Whispering 18,865]

21 minutes ago, Didymus said:

"For ARTPOP, I was doing beats instead. I didn’t want to be near that damn [piano]. It was too emotional. I would start to play and sing, and my mind would go, ‘You are way too talented for this ****. F---, your voice sounds good. F---, that’s a beautiful chord. F---, that’s an amazing lyric. Why are you letting these people run you into the ground? When did you become the fashionable robot?’ Can’t being an artist be enough? Is talent ever the thing? I think for Adele it is. I think for Bruno Mars it is. But that’s what I learned from working with Tony: If talent isn’t the thing, then you are way off-base."

"This is the year I did what I wanted instead of trying to keep up with what I thought everyone else wanted from me."

That's enough for me.

No, she didn't say the album sucked, obviously, but it wasn't the truthful, daring, boundary-crushing artistic expression she and we wanted for a number of reasons. I don't see why there's anything wrong with admitting that.

I didn't interpret the passages you bolded in the same way you did. I don't believe she was saying that the music was subpar. In the thread discussing this paragraph, there were several interpretations and several people who weren't sure what she meant...so there isn't a clear consensus on what Gaga is or is not saying here. 

That may very well be your interpretation, but that doesn't mean that is what she was trying to communicate in her comment. 

[Didymus 32,781]

Just now, Whispering said:

I didn't interpret the passages you bolded in the same way you did. In the thread discussing this paragraph, there were several interpretations and several people who weren't sure what she meant...so there isn't a clear consensus on what Gaga is or is not saying here.

That may very well be your interpretation, but that doesn't mean that is what she was trying to communicate in her comment. 

Well.. can I ask how you can interpret this any other way? Yes, a lot of people in the other thread said they didn't get it but they didn't even try to interpret it at all So that doesn't really count to me.

[Dangerous Man 9,245]

It's nobody's fault.As much as I love the album, It wasn't just well received by the gp and the critics.  Though, it could have slayed a bit without the mess that happened during the era.

[Whispering 18,865]

5 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well.. can I ask how you can interpret this any other way? Yes, a lot of people in the other thread said they didn't get it but they didn't even try to interpret it at all So that doesn't really count to me.

My comment in that thread:

"No, I don't think she was basing her album. Gaga is saying that she took a different approach to making this album due to several factors, including her mental state during that time. She didn't want to sit down at the piano and poor her soul into playing and that type of writing because she was too fragile at that time. In a way, she was protecting herself...which is what clinically depressed people do. 

ARTPOP is a product of that pain...but even moreso the self-protection from the pain. Gaga really wasn't in the right place to release and promote an album, but to not do so could have killed her. 

Like most people who have survived a severe bout of clinical depression, Gaga is still working out what she went through and what it all means in her head. It takes a long time to work through the after effects of severe depression. Most people experience a PTSD-like reaction after they come out of the depression."

 

[Didymus 32,781]

Just now, Whispering said:

My comment in that thread:

"No, I don't think she was basing her album. Gaga is saying that she took a different approach to making this album due to several factors, including her mental state during that time. She didn't want to sit down at the piano and poor her soul into playing and that type of writing because she was too fragile at that time. In a way, she was protecting herself...which is what clinically depressed people do. 

ARTPOP is a product of that pain...but even moreso the self-protection from the pain. Gaga really wasn't in the right place to release and promote an album, but to not do so could have killed her. 

Like most people who have survived a severe bout of clinical depression, Gaga is still working out what she went through and what it all means in her head. It takes a long time to work through the after effects of severe depression. Most people experience a PTSD-like reaction after they come out of the depression."

I read that one and I like it but that does not address the parts I bolded thoroughy.

In fact, most people who disagree with my interpretation never even mentioned those parts at all. I wonder why How much clearer can you get with "If talent isn’t the thing, then you are way off-base." Mix that with her Austin statements about how she didn't even want to release some (obviously the best) of her music because she didn't want "the system" to ruin them, add to that the fact that a finished ARTPOP album was most probably rejected by Interscope in 2012, add to thàt the fact that she admitted in 2014 that all of her albums were edited by Interscope to take out her vibrato and I think we have a very convincing case of her feeling like her work was not expressing herself well enough.

What made ARTPOP particularly subpar was that it was supposed to be an artist breaking free. We all know that's the opposite of what happened, most directly in the era, yes, but I think we have enough clues (esp. now with this interview) that it reflected in the music. Without insulting anyone, I think that the people who disagree with that are just distorting things for their own comfort.

[Whispering 18,865]

8 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well.. can I ask how you can interpret this any other way? Yes, a lot of people in the other thread said they didn't get it but they didn't even try to interpret it at all So that doesn't really count to me.

More comments from others:

She's certainly not saying that she hates ARTPOP, she's expressed numerous times that she absolutely adores ARTPOP, in my opinion, it's this album—as of now—that truly defines her as "Lady Gaga": using music as her form of artistic media to express her thoughts into the world. 
 

I think what she means by this quote is that she just didn't want to work on the piano, and now looking back on the album. She was heavily using beats (i.e. Swine), and didn't use the piano as often (i.e. Dope and Gypsy).

No, she doesn't hate the album itself. Maybe she was disappointed with the management of the era and the bad outcome they got but I'm sure she loves the album.

She said several times she loves ARTPOP and that it was misunderstood by people.

using ARTPOP as a channel for her frustration make it an artistic statement, even if its a different one that the artistic statement she might have otherwise made.

 

 

[Didymus 32,781]

6 minutes ago, Whispering said:

More comments from others:

She's certainly not saying that she hates ARTPOP, she's expressed numerous times that she absolutely adores ARTPOP, in my opinion, it's this album—as of now—that truly defines her as "Lady Gaga": using music as her form of artistic media to express her thoughts into the world.

I think what she means by this quote is that she just didn't want to work on the piano, and now looking back on the album. She was heavily using beats (i.e. Swine), and didn't use the piano as often (i.e. Dope and Gypsy).

No, she doesn't hate the album itself. Maybe she was disappointed with the management of the era and the bad outcome they got but I'm sure she loves the album.

She said several times she loves ARTPOP and that it was misunderstood by people.

using ARTPOP as a channel for her frustration make it an artistic statement, even if its a different one that the artistic statement she might have otherwise made.

All of these ignore the main cornerstone of what she said:

"‘You are way too talented for this ****. F---, your voice sounds good. F---, that’s a beautiful chord. F---, that’s an amazing lyric. Why are you letting these people run you into the ground?"

And for that reason they don't apply to me, especially since they all rely on her previous statements, most of them made before her big breakthrough, a breakthrough that is embodied in this very interview. I'm sure she loves the album and the era as a valuable learning experience (I believe she even literally said that somewhere in the interview) but that doesn't mean the music was up to her abilities, even at the time, and that was the only point I wanted to make here: what I see, mostly, in people's comments about Gaga being responsible for ARTPOP "flopping" is that she didn't do what she wanted and aimed to please the wrong people. How can you possibly deny that she admitted that in this interview?

[Dramatica 13,264]

29 minutes ago, JbGaga said:

Most annoying thing Gaga does for me personally is blame everyone for her mistakes

 

[A Real Panda 889]

The album was never really given a chance to "speak for itself", in my opinion. There were a lot of good songs and potential hits, despite what a lot of here who say ARTPOP was bad simply because it didn't sell like her previous albums. Her being a polarizing figure was at it's peak post Born This Way. Gaga did a lot of bold moves for someone new-ish and that's fine with me but it turned off casual listeners. Issues with Born This Way (Constant Madonna comparisons, that bone-y looks she donned which was fine with me, too many religious lyrics on BTW, $0.99 deal, etc.)

The following mess-es that happened pre-ARTPOP / post-BTW: Gaga's Feuds with other people were making more headlines, Health concerns, Manager leaving before album's release, Negative BS Articles by trolls, etc.

Like majority of the many articles released on 2013 pertaining to Gaga was not about the music. Sadly, ARTPOP suffered.

[Whispering 18,865]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

I read that one and I like it but that does not address the parts I bolded thoroughy.

In fact, most people who disagree with my interpretation never even mentioned those parts at all. I wonder why How much clearer can you get with "If talent isn’t the thing, then you are way off-base." Mix that with her Austin statements about how she didn't even want to release some (obviously the best) of her music because she didn't want "the system" to ruin them, add to that the fact that a finished ARTPOP album was most probably rejected by Interscope in 2012, add to thàt the fact that she admitted in 2014 that all of her albums were edited by Interscope to take out her vibrato and I think we have a very convincing case of her feeling like her work was not expressing herself well enough.

What made ARTPOP particularly subpar was that it was supposed to be an artist breaking free. We all know that's the opposite of what happened, most directly in the era, yes, but I think we have enough clues (esp. now with this interview) that it reflected in the music. Without insulting anyone, I think that the people who disagree with that are just distorting things for their own comfort.

Yes, my comment does address how I interpreted the meaning behind what Gaga said, including the parts you bolded. 

That's not what Gaga said at SXSW and that's purely an assumption about ARTPOP being rejected in 2012. She has always said that Interscope has been a supportive label and she greatly trusted Jimmy Iovine. The had a very good relationship. Yes, Gaga is frustrated with the manipulation of her voice for the final product. 

You have enough "clues" because of your individual interpretations of comments and events, but that doesn't make those things facts. People that disagree with you simply don't interpret these things the way you did and they aren't basing their opinions on speculations. There is a vast difference between you piecing all your opinions together to form a speculation and what is actual facts! There is way too much we don't know or understand, so we are all left with our individual opinions and interpretations of past events. 

[MaryJaneHolland 77,348]

STFU 

ARTPOP wasn't a flop

Get ****ing over it 

Let ARTPOP era rest in peace 

[Didymus 32,781]

7 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Yes, my comment does address how I interpreted the meaning behind what Gaga said, including the parts you bolded. 

That's not what Gaga said at SXSW and that's purely an assumption about ARTPOP being rejected in 2012. She has always said that Interscope has been a supportive label and she greatly trusted Jimmy Iovine. The had a very good relationship. Yes, Gaga is frustrated with the manipulation of her voice for the final product. 

You have enough "clues" because of your individual interpretations of comments and events, but that doesn't make those things facts. People that disagree with you simply don't interpret these things the way you did and they aren't basing their opinions on speculations. There is a vast difference between you piecing all your opinions together to form a speculation and what is actual facts! There is way too much we don't know or understand, so we are all left with our individual opinions and interpretations of past events. 

A supportive label that manipulates her voice against her will. That makes sense.

I'm not stating any fact except that Gaga admitted that she didn't do what she wanted for ARTPOP and that she tried to please all the wrong people. That is a fact, since that is literally what she's saying in our most recent interview. It doesn't mean she doesn't love ARTPOP (but that's not even what this thread is about so can we knock it off with that boring subject pls), it just means that she recognizes that she hasn't been utilizing all of her gifts and that she has to express her artistic self first and foremost - meaning (and only THIS is my interpretation) that especially ARTPOP, since that project was supposedly all about brave creativity and whatever, didn't live up to even her own expectations, let alone that of the disappointed fans who blame her for it (as in, like I said on the first page: because she didn't do what she preached).

So I wanna tie this nicely again to my first post, before people will think I'm hating on her again: what I see mostly in people blaming her for ARTPOP "flopping" is that the music was not a reflection of her talent or creativity. And yes, I think it's an undisputable fact that she admitted that in her most recent interview and everyone who thinks it's not is just lying for no reason since admitting that does not mean she doesn't love ARTPOP and it does not mean she didn't use ARTPOP as a creative vehicle at all.