What happened back in 2013 (Gaga's artistic freedom)

[vertigostick 2,384]

In the wake of Gaga's speech at Yale where she mentioned she wanted to "quit", I thought about what led to this situation... Here's my theory.

I believe even with her old management she used to be in the position of deciding or at least co-deciding what she wants to do. She's never been just a puppet. But it was up until a certain point when things started going wrong and forces changed: my theory is that it all began with her hip injury and the BTW Ball cancellation. They lost money, it messed up their schedule...

Few months before, in a move to keep her brand alive and make even more money between album campaigns, they launched the perfume Fame (which Gaga agreed to do and made the best out of it with a very artistic campaign...). After her injury, they wanted ARTPOP to be released asap, but were not satisfied with the result. Gaga had to work on some tracks again, it was taking them too long... Applause was released in "emergency" and it was not as big as they hoped.

So, when the invicible money-making machine she had become started showing its first "cracks", they wanted to take over control and tell her what to do... Leading to the whole Venus/DWUW release mess, the video that never saw the light of the day... Sponsors like Akon who invested on her brand jumped off ship, Troy went away... 

Add the media backlash on top of it all, it must have been quite a terrible time for her...

To sum it up: IMO she's always been involved in everything, but when she realized the people behind her are also in it for the money and expect her to do more and more, it was already too late to go back and sort it out.

[SpaceJam 292]

In the wake of Gaga's speech at Yale where she mentioned she wanted to "quit", I thought about what led to this situation... Here's my theory.

I believe even with her old management she used to be in the position of deciding or at least co-deciding what she wants to do. She's never been just a puppet. But it was up until a certain point when things started going wrong and forces changed: my theory is that it all began with her hip injury and the BTW Ball cancellation. They lost money, it messed up their schedule...

Few months before, in a move to keep her brand alive and make more money between albums, they launched the perfume Fame (which Gaga agreed to do and made the best out of it with a very artistic campaign...). After her injury, they wanted ARTPOP to be released asap, but were not satisfied with the result. Gaga had to work on some tracks again, it was taking them too long... Applause was released in "emergency" and it was not as big as they hoped.

So, when the invicible money-making machine she had become started showing its first "cracks", they wanted to take over control and tell her what to do... Leading to the whole Venus/DWUW release mess, the video that never saw the light of the day... Sponsors like Akon who invested money on her brand jumped off ship, Troy went away... 

Add the media backlash on top of it all, it must have been quite a terrible time for her...

To sum it up: IMO she's always been involved in everything, but when she realized the people behind her are also in it for the money and expect her to do more and more, it was already too late to go back and sort it out.

Yeah Interscope wanted an album of all hits and rushed her  so sad =/

[SpaceJam 292]

In the wake of Gaga's speech at Yale where she mentioned she wanted to "quit", I thought about what led to this situation... Here's my theory.

I believe even with her old management she used to be in the position of deciding or at least co-deciding what she wants to do. She's never been just a puppet. But it was up until a certain point when things started going wrong and forces changed: my theory is that it all began with her hip injury and the BTW Ball cancellation. They lost money, it messed up their schedule...

Few months before, in a move to keep her brand alive and make even more money between album campaigns, they launched the perfume Fame (which Gaga agreed to do and made the best out of it with a very artistic campaign...). After her injury, they wanted ARTPOP to be released asap, but were not satisfied with the result. Gaga had to work on some tracks again, it was taking them too long... Applause was released in "emergency" and it was not as big as they hoped.

So, when the invicible money-making machine she had become started showing its first "cracks", they wanted to take over control and tell her what to do... Leading to the whole Venus/DWUW release mess, the video that never saw the light of the day... Sponsors like Akon who invested on her brand jumped off ship, Troy went away... 

Add the media backlash on top of it all, it must have been quite a terrible time for her...

To sum it up: IMO she's always been involved in everything, but when she realized the people behind her are also in it for the money and expect her to do more and more, it was already too late to go back and sort it out.

I wonder what those OG tracks were for ARTPOP

[vertigostick 2,384]

Yeah Interscope wanted an album of all hits and rushed her  so sad =/

According to Gaga, Interscope has always been very supportive... I think the pressure came mainly from her ex-management team...

[SpaceJam 292]

According to Gaga, Interscope has always been very supportive... I think the pressure came mainly from her ex-management team...

Interscope was pressed tho, they were mad that BTW didnt do as well, thats why it was 99 cents for the first week they were worried, but troy being mad does not surpise me.

[djBuffoon 12,075]

Yeah Interscope wanted an album of all hits and rushed her  so sad =/

I keep reading this theory here, but it doesn't hold water. With very, very few exceptions (namely "DWUW", "Applause", "GUY"), ARTPOP doesn't at all sound like Gaga was interested in commercial success. Not that the album is overtly experimental, but the sounds, the topics, and the way she goes about discussing them are... unusual to the pop landscape. Moreso than people give it credit for.

A far cry from The Fame Monster, where basically any track could have feasibly been a single.

[Alien Tulip 12,428]

I wish we would just forget 2013 happened. It was a really sad time for her. It was almost like we was watching her slowly deteriorating like Britney Spears in 2007 but not as bad  Let's be grateful Gaga is healthier now and so much happier in her life. 

[SpaceJam 292]

I wish we would just forget 2013 happened. It was a really sad time for her. It was almost like we was watching her slowly deteriorating like Britney Spears in 2007 but not as bad  Let's be grateful Gaga is healthier now and so much happier in her life. 

it was near 2007 spears levels almost

[gagzus 15,655]

Actually it slowly started in 2012 i believe she said it started with Troy telling her she had to look more attractive to market herself better hence why she dressed more glamorous, got lip injections and was sultry and then when AP wasn't TF or TFM 2.0 with BTWs 1st week sales then well... They tried to control her more & Troy eventually quit because she refused and said no

[Benji 20,113]

Well it is really a grey area. ARTPOP, on paper sounded like the perfect album that would have been a huge cash cow for Interscope, however something happened behind the scenes that caused that to not work out. Interscope and even Troy have always been very supportive of Gaga so I feel like there's a lot that we don't know about.

Troy would not have got a deal with Apple and got an app built if he didn't believe in Gaga's vision. I've always personally doubted the whole blaming of Troy for the situation.

Interscope was pressed tho, they were mad that BTW didnt do as well, thats why it was 99 cents for the first week they were worried

It was confirmed somewhere that Gaga (her team) didn't really have anything to do with it. It was a deal Amazon came up with to promote their services.

[Alien Tulip 12,428]

it was near 2007 spears levels almost

I agree and to be honest I feel like if things got worse she possibly would have been hospitalized. People forget that Gaga's other grandfather died in 2013, her godfather also died and her childhood dog died the same day Troy left her. I was really worried for her and when I watched Ellen 2013 interview I knew something was so strange about her, she looked so exhausted and nervous but still put on a smile but her overall energy in that interview was worrying and she showed that sign when she told Ellen "I'm surprised you still like me".

[SpaceJam 292]

I agree and to be honest I feel like if things got worse she possibly would have been hospitalized. People forget that Gaga's other grandfather died in 2013, her godfather also died and her childhood dog died the same day Troy left her. I was really worried for her and when I watched Ellen 2013 interview I knew something was so strange about her, she looked so exhausted and nervous but still put on a smile but her overall energy in that interview was worrying and she showed that sign when she told Ellen "I'm surprised you still like me".

She looked so depressed during the youtube awards

[SpaceJam 292]

I was just watching that video of her crying and walking slowly for like 20 min to her car  =((((   

[Benji 20,113]

I keep reading this theory here, but it doesn't hold water. With very, very few exceptions (namely "DWUW", "Applause", "GUY"), ARTPOP doesn't at all sound like Gaga was interested in commercial success. Not that the album is overtly experimental, but the sounds, the topics, and the way she goes about discussing them are... unusual. (I think this is an attribute btw.)

A far cry from The Fame Monster, where basically any track could have feasibly been a single.

I have to disagree with you, dear.

The main topics on the album are s-x / relations or partying? Sure, it's not a conventional approach but when has Gaga been conventional? She doesn't want a romance, she wants an unhealthy relationship, she wants a Bad Romance etc.

She worked with a producer who was making hits (Zedd) and generally used that sound through-out the album. She rarely strayed away from the pop-song formula, but when she did it was never far away from a recognizable sound that was present in the last year's charts.

The Fame was her debut, it was slightly ahead of American trends thanks to following European trends. The Fame Monster was sonically abrasive and risque with a sound that could have easily been turned on. Born This Way was extremely different to the charts in it's production and general theme of pro-LGBT+ and self empowerment but ARTPOP was pretty content with being what it is, a fun album.

Most of ARTPOP could have been singles. In fact, all of them could have if some were tweaked but you can't say the same for any of her previous albums, even The Fame Monster.

Now, I'm far from calling ARTPOP basic or any negative connotation, but if we had to label a Gaga album as being interested in commercial success, I would have to say it's ARTPOP.

[djBuffoon 12,075]

I have to disagree with you, dear.

Partying is a very small aspect of the album. There are references to it here or there, and it's most straightforwardly prevalent on "MANiCURE", correct? You could argue "Mary Jane" or "Donatella", but those songs really aren't about partying. The topics are (agreed) love, but also much moreso about artistry and personas, with many different avenues explored within those two core ideas.

You've chosen to read the album as surface-level, and the album works that way. But I think the album also holds up to closer scrutiny. As for the sound of the album, we'll have to agree to disagree. Gaga has never created genres, (Born This Way was/is her most boundary-pushing, for sure) but she her gift is taking disparate genres that don't usually go together and blending them in a way that is, yes, unusual. Can you name any songs in public consciousness that closely resemble "Venus","Sexxx Dreams", "Mary Jane Holland", "GUY", "Swine", "Aura"?

Even more recognizable ones like "Fashion!" and "Jewels n Drugs" incorporate sonic elements and layers that are (to me, at least) surprising and different. And no, I do not think most of these would have worked as singles. And if so, you really don't think they would stand out, in any way, as unlike the rest of what's out there?