Germany now expects up to 1.5 million refugees

[Truth 90]

I live directly in front of a refugee centre and my [jewish] family is living on the same street as a refugee centre. Neither me or my family experienced any hatred from refugees.  It would be wrong to generalize a group of people by some individuals. 

Fine, but my point is that you cannot be sure if in 2 years (when there will be roughly 4 mln immigrants more) you and your family will still be safe. Imagine the refugee centre will have no free space for more immigrants and they will be waiting on the streets, unfortunately, also being hostile towards anyone who has a house or flat (because it is somehow observed already in Austria). It is not solely about your religion, it is that those people expect to obtain everything they demand quickly, but the reality is that they will be forced to wait. Even German system may not resist such tension.

[kimchi 98]

 

So you see my point, because all I mean is not to refuse any help. What I'm saying is that there should be a control of who is entering the country and therefore not everyone should be allowed to come in. First of all, people should show all of the documents they have, it should be checked whether they are not criminals, members of IS, etc. The same goes for the their medical complaints, how can anyone know if they do not have HIV or any exotic illnesses. For example, when I was to travel to Africa, I had to be inoculated, while they are surely not. However, it is difficult to fix this mistake if there are quite big groups of those who are disrespectful towards the western culture and think they are above the law.

You gave the example of those people from Eastern Europe. I'm sure that situation happened, but I highly doubt there were all sleeping on the streets in front of  your family's house or that they were entering their garden to camp there . I had nothing against immigrants, until my family from Austria started calling me and complaining that they are scared of them and nobody has any solution how to help. The funny thing is that they also were very welcoming, they had a spare flat and they let 2 Syrian families to live there (for free!), so I think they are far from being nationalistic.

So to sum up what I said, opening the boarders the way Germany does and inviting everyone, even illegal immigrants is simply insane! It is not helping anyone, even IS will also be free to enter. Don't you think it's possible? Those who had to escape will be forced to do that again, but the question where if every country seem to forget about the security laws

I actually agree on most of what you said. The way people enter the country at the moment is not coordinated but is also a result of the mess the EU created when everyone started to do different things. I strongly believe that the German administration has to check now everybody that entered the country and then decide if he/she can stay or not. There will be many many of those 1,5 Mio people that won't get a resident permission after all. I do not agree on letting all the people stay in Germany who came from a safe country and just came here for economic reasons.

I think one of the reasons it is like it is now is that Germany is surrounded by other EU countries so we actually had no idea how to control the borders or how the organize a structured way of immigration at our border - there is no border anymore, nobody is working there and we don't have enough police officers to secure the border. I always loved the idea of open borders and I enjoyed it a lot while traveling in Europe but now it's just a mess.

My main point is - How do we make sure that actual refugees from Syria who fled from there and have good intentions, who want to settle down in Europe and work and live here, how can we maintain a possibility for them to immigrate? How can we separate them from the "bad guys"? I have no answer for that but refusing anyone to enter the countries is not a solution.

[kimchi 98]

 

Fine, but my point is that you cannot be sure if in 2 years (when there will be roughly 4 mln immigrants more) you and your family will still be safe. Imagine the refugee centre will have no free space for more immigrants and they will be waiting on the streets, unfortunately, also being hostile towards anyone who has a house or flat (because it is somehow observed already in Austria). It is not solely about your religion, it is that those people expect to obtain everything they demand quickly, but the reality is that they will be forced to wait. Even German system may not resist such tension.

I still don't think that most of them are the way you describe them but there is a valid point: The waiting times right now for apartments and working permissions are insane. They need to be fixed asap. Everyone that arrives here and is able to work should work asap. When so many people from different religions and cultures are perched together in refugee camps I'm not surprised that the situation often escalates. 

They need to earn money, to have a structured day and to get in touch with the locals. Sitting in a camp the whole day would make me mad as well.

[Truth 90]

I still don't think that most of them are the way you describe them but there is a valid point: The waiting times right now for apartments and working permissions are insane. They need to be fixed asap. Everyone that arrives here and is able to work should work asap. When so many people from different religions and cultures are perched together in refugee camps I'm not surprised that the situation often escalates. 

They need to earn money, to have a structured day and to get in touch with the locals. Sitting in a camp the whole day would make me mad as well.

I've never called every immigrant bad (in fact it is enough that 1% of them is obnoxious and it is a huge problem as nobody has any control over them). It is true I exaggerate to some extent, but I do because the whole situation is ridiculous and illegal immigrants who refuse to register and leave their finger prints are bad to me, indeed, as they violate the laws (however, I think everyone knows that there are also those who do what they are told and I have nothing against them until they break the law). However, I can even clarify that I mean only the group of illegal immigrants (especially those who tend to be aggressive). Since my first post I've been talking about the illegal ones, so I thought it was clear.

Also, it seems unfair that if I wanted to travel for example to Australia (I live in Switzerland now) I'd need a visa and I wouldn't be able to take even scissors with me, because I'd be treated like a criminal otherwise - and I've never done anything illegal. to contrast, there are millions of people who try to enter 1 certain country in Europe and nobody does anything relevant about this situation, but opening the boarder and welcoming them (I've explained you my chief worries earlier, such as their lack of inoculation, no documents etc., which I think should be checked before they enter, not after, because later it may be too late as for example diseases will spread).

Do you know how many people live in the poverty in Africa and in Asia? Billions. Can you imagine they all come to Germany? I do not. It is good to help, but in my opinion only those who urgently need asylum should stay. Everybody should help in a clever way, not in such a thoughtless one. The main mistake (to my mind) that Germany makes is that they let everybody in. Just let's imagine what will happen in countries like Hungary, Croatia, Hungary if the message "we'll take everyone" is spread. Maybe German economy can survive (provided that those immigrants are likely to assimilate), but how about poor European countries that will have to deal with all those people who are aggressive when they are supposed to show their documents?

There is another threat, also. Because there is a possibility that some of the newcomers will value their own culture more than European one and they will refuse to assimilate. But I hope it will not happen, anyway at the moment nobody can tell what will. So I'm not going to rant on the imaginary things :)

[Truth 90]

I actually agree on most of what you said. The way people enter the country at the moment is not coordinated but is also a result of the mess the EU created when everyone started to do different things. I strongly believe that the German administration has to check now everybody that entered the country and then decide if he/she can stay or not. There will be many many of those 1,5 Mio people that won't get a resident permission after all. I do not agree on letting all the people stay in Germany who came from a safe country and just came here for economic reasons.

I think one of the reasons it is like it is now is that Germany is surrounded by other EU countries so we actually had no idea how to control the borders or how the organize a structured way of immigration at our border - there is no border anymore, nobody is working there and we don't have enough police officers to secure the border. I always loved the idea of open borders and I enjoyed it a lot while traveling in Europe but now it's just a mess.

My main point is - How do we make sure that actual refugees from Syria who fled from there and have good intentions, who want to settle down in Europe and work and live here, how can we maintain a possibility for them to immigrate? How can we separate them from the "bad guys"? I have no answer for that but refusing anyone to enter the countries is not a solution.

I know I've written a lot, but I'll only comment on this, too. In my opinion, letting everybody in is also not a solution. To be frank, I do not have any solution. What I think is that if we invite them (by saying that everybody is welcome) we are responsible for their death (e.g. when their boats sink). I guess that fighting with all those smugglers first would be crucial.

But anyway, I hope you understand me, I'm not hostile towards anyone. I simply don't understand this chaos.

[Whispering 18,865]

I just can't at those kind of answers.

You would send those people back into a WAR ZONE or let them die on their way to Europe?

 

During this crisis, many finally show their real face. "Pity? Yes, but please don't come to my country."

 

Half of these refugees are coming for economic reasons. They are not coming from war zones. There are millions upon millions of people in war zones in countries all over the world. There is no way to take all these people in and support them. 

There are hundreds of millions without food or clean drinking water in sub-Saharan Africa right now. Why not go and get them, before allowing economic refugees of people who are already settled in camps? Also, I know the camps are not a very good situation, but the starving people in Africa (which number over 200 million) would love to be living in these tent camps where at least they have access to some food and clean water. 

The reality of the situation (however sad it may be) is that the developed countries of the world cannot take in all the people who need help, are living in hunger, and are living in war zones. If Europe really opened their borders for everyone that needed economic relief and safer conditions, their countries' infrastructures and economies would collapse. 

[Alii 2,039]

I can't wait to see how this will end up. Our culture is very different and very wrong. 

I can totally see anti-semitism, homophobia and s-xism rise in Germany. 

[kimchi 98]

Half of these refugees are coming for economic reasons. They are not coming from war zones. There are millions upon millions of people in war zones in countries all over the world. There is no way to take all these people in and support them. 

There are millions upon millions of people without food or clean drinking water in Africa right now. Why not go and get them, before allowing economic refugees of people who are already settled in camps? Also, I know the camps are not a very good situation, but the starving people in Africa would love to be living in these tent camps where at least they have access to some food and clean water. 

The reality of the situation (however sad it may be) is that the developed countries of the world cannot take in all the people who need help, are living in hunger, and are living in war zones. If Europe really opened their borders for everyone that needed economic relief and safer conditions, their countries infrastructure and economies would collapse. 

I know! I agree that we can't take all the immigrants with economic reasons. But they won't be able to stay in the EU anyways, it will take some time; but Germany, for example, hired hundreds of new employees to deal solely with residence permits/deportations of economic refugees.

I guess that out of the 1,5 Mio, only 500.000 or even less are actual refugees from Syria (don't quote me on that).

I don't think letting everybody enter the EU is the right strategy. I just didn't like the way Truth said Germany tries to doom the whole Europe again, for the 3rd time  [:fail:].

Sentences like this make me really sad because it's against everything Germans want to stand for these days  

[kimchi 98]

 

I know I've written a lot, but I'll only comment on this, too. In my opinion, letting everybody in is also not a solution. To be frank, I do not have any solution. What I think is that if we invite them (by saying that everybody is welcome) we are responsible for their death (e.g. when their boats sink). I guess that fighting with all those smugglers first would be crucial.

But anyway, I hope you understand me, I'm not hostile towards anyone. I simply don't understand this chaos.

Overall we seem to be quite on the same page actually  I just have a slightly different viewpoint or perception just because I'm German (although at the moment not living in Germany - maybe I would think differently if I see all the mess back home with my own eyes).

The best solution - of course - would be to "make" a stable and safe Syria again that some of those people can go back to their home country. But I have no clue how we can make that happen...

[RAMROD 117,978]

I hope the job opportunity is plentiful in the future in Germaby for both locales and refugees, otherwise

 

[Goosey 3,017]

1,500,000 refugees is 1,500,000 mouths to feed, you have housing, schooling, welfare, healthcare, et cetera. What are they providing to the country in return? What is the benefit Merkel is touting?

[Truth 90]

Overall we seem to be quite on the same page actually  I just have a slightly different viewpoint or perception just because I'm German (although at the moment not living in Germany - maybe I would think differently if I see all the mess back home with my own eyes).

The best solution - of course - would be to "make" a stable and safe Syria again that some of those people can go back to their home country. But I have no clue how we can make that happen...

I couldn't agree more, making Syria (and other countries such as Afghanistan) a safe place to live and develop would be the best thing to do in order to help all those people and resolve this whole crisis. Although it seems to be extremely tough, I still believe that peace is possible to establish there :)

Also, I'm sorry for my first comment if it really upset you. It wasn't supposed to be offensive, it is just painful for me to watch how so many countries (like Hungary, Croatia, Austria, Greece, Italy, etc.) struggle to deal with all those illegal immigrants (many of them are not even from Syria) who were promised to find their place in Germany and the German government does nothing about this, but keeps repeating that they will shelter everybody. I look at it from the prospective of someone who has a family in Austria, so you cannot blame me for that. To me Germany does wrong, because it is an egoistic and thoughtless way of helping, without considering what other EU countries say. But I don't blame the regular German people for that, it is natural they want to help and may God bless them. However, it is good to be considerate, because there are poor Europeans as well.

It is nice we mostly agree with each other! I enjoyed our discussion and I hope that by the time you come back home in Germany, the situation will be already under control, so that nothing will become worse and you'll not have to go through any unpleasant situation. Take care and thanks for sharing your views! :)

[Qualle1 1,385]

I am very sorry, but these estimated figures are a nightmare! I have always been pro-regugees - but we can NOT handle so many refugees in such a short time. More than 10.000 refugees have been coming to Germany on a daily basis within the last couple of months. We have - even though we are a highly developed country - only limited capacities to supply the refugees with food, medication, pocket money and especially with housing in so called refugee-camps. The situation gets more and more chaotic from week to week - and the colder autumn has just begun!  The entire German administration is in a kind of "state of emergency" and the previous pro-refugees mood in the general public is about to change drastically.

To think, that we can cope with 1.500.000 refugees alone in 2015 is absolutely naiv and dangerous!

[Qualle1 1,385]

@Simon

http://www.spiegel.tv/filme/gewalt-fluechtlingscamps/

[Morphine Prince 109,926]

@Simon

http://www.spiegel.tv/filme/gewalt-fluechtlingscamps/

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