Redstreak 6,653 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I disagree, I don't see any point going after geriatrics 70 years after the fact. Guy would have been age 12-24 during Nazi era, perfect age for indoctrination. Do Nazi hunters keep lowering the bar for the types they will prosecute just to keep it going? I bet they didn't prosecute people like him in 1945-55 because they would have had to lock up hundreds of thousands if they went after everyone involved with the SS or the death camps. I actually agree with you on this. Take a moment to think of just flexibility, love, and trust~ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,090 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 It was an army that was official under Germany, so yes. Well that is true, but if you see footage the nazis filmed themselves you see them laughing and smiling while shooting women and children in the heads. yeah but im sure many werent like that. remember as bad as things were, the media when talking about thigns will always show the most extreme if ur talking about how cruel these soldiers were, obviously ur not gonna show people the average soldier, your going to show them the most barbaric. It doesnt make the footage untrue, but it might give people a twisted view of what the norm was. If u have 5 videos and ur making a documentry ur gonna show maybe the 2 videos that showed the worst of it. Not to mention only the craziest would film themselves doing that to begin with its like black slavery in the US. There was actually many slave owners that were fair and didnt beat their slaves and treated them well and thats a known thing because of real stories we have from back then. Things like what ud see in the movie "12 years a slave" for instance was basically the worst most evil owners. They werent all like that, but because when ur talking about the slavery problem ur gonna mention stuff like wipping and hanging etc, people get the idea that that was the norm among all slaves when in fact it wasnt that extreme in most cases My point is, while many seemed to take pleasure in doing these things, im sure there were also many soldiers that didnt like what was happening but out of fear they wouldnt say anything and they would just obey their orders Again doesnt excuse anything, but during oppresive dictatorships where people feared going against them, most wouldnt dared to defy the ones in power. They ruled by fear thats how it was, and so even if a third or even half the people didnt like what was happening, theree was never enough courageous ones to take a stand... they would just go with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
homomo 23,883 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm not sure if I agree with this or not. He's 94 years old. Auschwitz opened up in 1940 and closed in 1942. That would make him roughly 19 - 21 years old when the suffering happened. It also states that he was a medic, and didn't actually kill the people. Yes, he was an accessory, but he had to obey orders, or else he could be charged with treason against the Nazi's, and be killed off. As tragic as it is for the millions of Jews, homos-xuals, blacks, and others who were murdered, I don't believe this man has to pay the price for all of it. He was doing what he was ordered to do, with the risk of being killed if he didn't. My ancestry is German. I've heard many stories from family about world war I and II, and many about the holocaust. Yes, most soldiers believed it was right, and killed with glory, but some didn't agree, and just did it in order to survive. Don't drag me for this, but this man could have just been fearful of being murdered too. Nonetheless, he didn't personally kill anyone. He was just there. 0110100001100101011011000110110001101111 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RainingOnMe 7,280 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm not sure if I agree with this or not. He's 94 years old. Auschwitz opened up in 1940 and closed in 1942. That would make him roughly 19 - 21 years old when the suffering happened. It also states that he was a medic, and didn't actually kill the people. Yes, he was an accessory, but he had to obey orders, or else he could be charged with treason against the Nazi's, and be killed off. As tragic as it is for the millions of Jews, homos-xuals, blacks, and others who were murdered, I don't believe this man has to pay the price for all of it. He was doing what he was ordered to do, with the risk of being killed if he didn't. My ancestry is German. I've heard many stories from family about world war I and II, and many about the holocaust. Yes, most soldiers believed it was right, and killed with glory, but some didn't agree, and just did it in order to survive. Don't drag me for this, but this man could have just been fearful of being murdered too. Nonetheless, he didn't personally kill anyone. He was just there. I agree partially. But he did murder these people, he wasn't a bystander. He did actually murder these people. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurqaSwg 4,681 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 damm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Five Ten 70 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I don't agree with the persecution of those who are made to follow orders (but there are so many arguments made like that - and who is telling the truth and who actually wanted to do the killing?) It's interesting that we're also now on the right side of history. Can you imagine, had the Nazi's won WWII, we would think of this man as a war hero and not a murderer? Scary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 so someone who was really young, easily brainwashed, possibly even forced and scared to defy Hitler during that opprossive time, if hes changed 70 years later u still hate him? I wonder how many ppl on this thread if put in the same circumstances back then especially at a certain age wouldnt end up doing the EXACT same things... :roll: Its so easy now to judge when we dont live in an oppressive society like back then where Governments were not only manipulative with propaganda but on top of that execution for failure to serve ur Country in war and being seen as a traitor was common. Things were totally different While you cannot excuse the things some of these people did, I cant feel "hate" taking into account different factors. Especially for someone who was 12 or 14 a frikkin 70 years ago. Id need more info an need more details before hating someone. U cant get bits and pieces of the story from a big puzzle from so long ago and decide u hate someone u dont know You have no right to judge when you didn't lost family there. People like this stupid men are the reason why my grandma grew up without a father and without brothers. He is the reason why my granny still has nightmares. So please I have all right to hate him. If I lived back then they would have killed me to, so I shouldn't hate him? Yeah sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MahoganySnitch 67 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 yeah but im sure many werent like that. remember as bad as things were, the media when talking about thigns will always show the most extreme if ur talking about how cruel these soldiers were, obviously ur not gonna show people the average soldier, your going to show them the most barbaric. It doesnt make the footage untrue, but it might give people a twisted view of what the norm was. If u have 5 videos and ur making a documentry ur gonna show maybe the 2 videos that showed the worst of it. Not to mention only the craziest would film themselves doing that to begin with its like black slavery in the US. There was actually many slave owners that were fair and didnt beat their slaves and treated them well and thats a known thing because of real stories we have from back then. Things like what ud see in the movie "12 years a slave" for instance was basically the worst most evil owners. They werent all like that, but because when ur talking about the slavery problem ur gonna mention stuff like wipping and hanging etc, people get the idea that that was the norm among all slaves when in fact it wasnt that extreme in most cases My point is, while many seemed to take pleasure in doing these things, im sure there were also many soldiers that didnt like what was happening but out of fear they wouldnt say anything and they would just obey their orders Again doesnt excuse anything, but during oppresive dictatorships where people feared going against them, most wouldnt dared to defy the ones in power. They ruled by fear thats how it was, and so even if a third or even half the people didnt like what was happening, theree was never enough courageous ones to take a stand... they would just go with it Your point about slavery is interesting, but I should mention that in principle, it wasn't at all "Fair". I have no issue discussing the Polly Shines in the world (who called her masters nice and plump who only hit their slaves when their slaves acted out, but granted this was for an interview with the WPA in 1938(?), with a white interviewer who transcribed the interview from notes and memory back in the 30s, so who knows if bias/bad transcribing took their toll). but that shouldn't mean that this pleasant treatment was the norm either, y'know? Sure, they all weren't like Fassbender's character, but they also weren't all like Shine's master either. The whole institution was based on the dehumanization of a certain people. A Guard in the camps must have treated a Jewish POW nicely, sure, but that shouldn't negate the harm of the overall system that put both those people there in the first place. (not saying that you, Economy, are doing that, just saying so generally). As for those who are caught up in this system (like the man in the OP), I probably would be happy at this if I did have a personal investment in it, like ancestors that passed away at the hands of the system that employed this man. But I don't. IDK how I feel about this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,090 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 You have no right to judge when you didn't lost family there. People like this stupid men are the reason why my grandma grew up without a father and without brothers. He is the reason why my granny still has nightmares. So please I have all right to hate him. If I lived back then they would have killed me to, so I shouldn't hate him? Yeah sure.ummm actually, it means i have an unbiased opinion and a heart without vengance Family of victims arent allowed in the jury for a reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,090 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Your point about slavery is interesting, but I should mention that in principle, it wasn't at all "Fair". I have no issue discussing the Polly Shines in the world (who called her masters nice and plump who only hit their slaves when their slaves acted out, but granted this was for an interview with the WPA in 1938(?), with a white interviewer who transcribed the interview from notes and memory back in the 30s, so who knows if bias/bad transcribing took their toll). but that shouldn't mean that this pleasant treatment was the norm either, y'know? Sure, they all weren't like Fassbender's character, but they also weren't all like Shine's master either. The whole institution was based on the dehumanization of a certain people. A Guard in the camps must have treated a Jewish POW nicely, sure, but that shouldn't negate the harm of the overall system that put both those people there in the first place. (not saying that you, Economy, are doing that, just saying so generally). As for those who are caught up in this system (like the man in the OP), I probably would be happy at this if I did have a personal investment in it, like ancestors that passed away at the hands of the system that employed this man. But I don't. IDK how I feel about this.well it wasnt "fair on principal that they were slaves to begin with. But i was just trying to make a point Not every slave owner beat their slaves or treated them so brutally like what comes to mind when u think of slaver of the 1800s. Its not untrue and so when looking back at history we discuss the wrong doings. But because thats whats focused on, its easy to get the idea that certain conditions were the common norm when in fact those were just the worst cases For just about everything in history that happens bad, the worst points will be focused on... Just like when a legend passes away ppl focus on the good and nobody talks about their negatives and almost make them sounds like saints So with regards to videos or the way soldiers "took pleasure" and "laughed" as they tortured and killed ppl, im sure there were MANY soldiers that werent like that and just follwed their orders they were forced to do Not trying to justify anything so. Just viewing things from all angles thats all :yes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zsolti 2,688 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Giving me AHS Asylum teas. mte Please correct me if I make any grammar mistakes, I want to master English as much as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Draco 2,531 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I'm glad he's being put down or whatever but I think it's time to put a bit more of effort on those who are becoming the new nazi movement... I agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calmar 22,808 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 He's 94? And they find satisfaction on giving him thousands of manslaughter counts now? That's more symbolic than effective than anything. I see it as a waste of time at this point. Whether or not he relished his job, he would have been my age or younger, and I have no reservations when I say that in seventy years, if I'm alive, I'm going to be a very different person than I am (ideologically, emotionally, etc. Not just because I have liver spots.) I agree with VenusOddity in that there are more pressing NSDAP matters now than making roadside shows out of geriatrics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 ummm actually, it means i have an unbiased opinion and a heart without vengance Family of victims arent allowed in the jury for a reason Yeah sure, cold-hearted person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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