aaronyoji 2,007 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 yes, lets all attack kim with stan logic: invalidating her opinion because we are pop stans who think one dimensionally and cant comprehend it AND invalidating her opinion because we dont have the musical expanded knowledge to know who sonic youth is and because she doesnt have a number one hit at the moment. yall are ****ing sad. and she has a ****ing point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,370 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 This criticism is so stupid. Lana's idea of feminism hits the nail on the head - when a woman is free to do anything. i.e. anything meaning she has the same opportunities as a man. The irony of this is, this is another female degrading another female for who she wants to be - how counter productive. :applause: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faux 2,190 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lol at the people saying "who is this?" As if she's writing this for 'recognition'! She's a respected musician and has been for over thirty years; your ignorance of her doesn't change that fact. You'd all be screaming "yaaasss".... "drag haaa!" if she were someone you liked. :roll: No irony. She's being critical of the message and ideas Lana Del Ray chooses to promote in her music, not "who she wants to be". You're wrong. :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 You're wrong. :) Stunning argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMILE2NE1 3,566 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Lol at the people saying "who is this?" As if she's writing this for 'recognition'! She's a respected musician and has been for over thirty years; your ignorance of her doesn't change that fact. You'd all be screaming "yaaasss".... "drag haaa!" if she were someone you liked. :roll: No irony. She's being critical of the message and ideas Lana Del Ray chooses to promote in her music, not "who she wants to be". She is alluding to suicide in her insult to Lana. This is worse than anything that Lana has done and makes Kim in her actions. I don't care what her ideology is. how you behave and what comes out of your mouth speaks more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 She is alluding to suicide in her insult to Lana. This is worse than anything that Lana has done and makes Kim in her actions. I don't care what her ideology is. how you behave and what comes out of your mouth speaks more. She's alluding to Lana Del Rey's work, and suggesting there's a difference between what she says and what she does because it ain't actually that great to die young, get raped, "go out on a hot flame of d--gs and depression", that it's a shıtty load of ideas to be promoting. She isn's saying "go kill yourself LDR"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homogenik 5 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 no lies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XoXoJoanneGaga 629 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Older women go off about younger women "not understanding Feminism" all the time but it's completely misguided. Lana's artistic persona and how many old men she sleeps with has nothing to do with equal pay or rights, to try and restrict what's okay for her to do as a woman is the opposite of feminism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 ... to try and restrict what's okay for her to do as a woman is the opposite of feminism. Where exactly does Kim Gordon say Del Rey has no right to say what she does? Where exactly is she saying she shouldn't be allowed to say what she says? She doesn't. At no point is she suggesting taking away anyone's freedom to say whatever they please. And it's just an absolutely bizarre idea that feminism means that whatever a woman says and does is somehow beyond criticism, that we can no longer voice an opinion on someone's behaviour because they're female and can do whatever they want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XoXoJoanneGaga 629 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Where exactly does Kim Gordon say Del Rey has no right to say what she does? Where exactly is she saying she shouldn't be allowed to say what she says? She doesn't. At no point is she suggesting taking away anyone's freedom to say whatever they please. And it's just an absolutely bizarre idea that feminism means that whatever a woman says and does is somehow beyond criticism, that we can no longer voice an opinion on someone's behaviour because they're female and can do whatever they want. But it has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism is about equal pay and equal rights for women, Lana having an artistic persona that fetishizes her sleeping with older men and doing d--gs is totally unrelated to feminism and isn't working against it at all. Where's the logic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 But it has nothing to do with feminism. Feminism is about equal pay and equal rights for women, Lana having an artistic persona that fetishizes her sleeping with older men and doing d--gs is totally unrelated to feminism and isn't working against it at all. Where's the logic? I guess it depends on whether you think artists should feel any sense of responsibility for the behaviour their songs promote in the wider world, or not. To women as a group, in this case. Whether such things as role-models exist. Whether what you're putting out there is useful and uplifting or encourages and glamourises self-destruction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
XoXoJoanneGaga 629 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I guess it depends on whether you think artists should feel any sense of responsibility for the behaviour their songs promote in the wider world, or not. To women as a group, in this case. Whether such things as role-models exist. Whether what you're putting out there is useful and uplifting or encourages and glamourises self-destruction. Sure, but that's a separate discussion from feminism. Lana's artistic persona is just that, a persona that fuels her art. It's not hurting feminism or promoting anti-feminist values. If she wants to go after young female artists for promoting bad values - not that I think she should - I can think of dozens that would make more sense to target. But the whole idea of older people complaining that younger people don't get values has been going on for ever, old people were saying the same thing about the rock n roll generation (aka Kim Gordon's generation) 50 years ago, it's a cycle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
field 98 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Sure, but that's a separate discussion from feminism. Lana's artistic persona is just that, a persona that fuels her art. It's not hurting feminism or promoting anti-feminist values. If she wants to go after young female artists for promoting bad values - not that I think she should - I can think of dozens that would make more sense to target. But the whole idea of older people complaining that younger people don't get values has been going on for ever, old people were saying the same thing about the rock n roll generation (aka Kim Gordon's generation) 50 years ago, it's a cycle. I don't think it is separate. To me it reads like Gordon's saying we don't even have the basics down (equal pay, equal rights) and women like Lana Del Rey aren't really helping when their lyrics feed into a really regressive idea of what women are/can be. But yeah, not sure why Del Rey in particular, maybe just an example of what - I agree - is pretty widespread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatfoxyfeeling 12,641 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I'm over women going after one and other in the industry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contra 145 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I wonder what she says about Courtney, http://loudwire.com/sonic-youth-kim-gordon-courtney-love-mentally-ill-billy-corgan-cry-baby/ gawd I need to read that memoir Concerning Kim's opinion on Lana and her individuality, I wouldn't take sides because I love them both too much. And trust me this is not about relevancy at all, Kim's been long enough in the music scene to feel jelly over Lana or make poor attempts to get noticed by badmouthing a young female artist whose mindset is different than Kim's (and will possibly change with time) . It's just her expressing her thoughts and I'm completely fine with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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