Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread 2.0

[lego 44,165]

I just named Hamas 'cause it's (or should be) common knowledge.

I don't disagree with you, but I don't think that makes Fays1's post any less simplistic and misleading.

Well I think he meant they, as in Palestinian people. That is what they want basic human and equal rights. I don't know if it's in one state or two, but that is true they want end of occupation.

He's right about this conflict not having solely religious motivation. There is no like 1 imam who yells from minbar and all Palestinians follow him in jihad, as some dumb people believe.

The incitement from religious & political figures do exist on both sides. 

I don't know why some focus on the one side only, is it because Israel is trying to make Hamas and ISIS equal? 

Idk. 

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

There will always be attacks aslong as Israel dont accept a one state solution.. there is no religious motives as palestinians are only asking for their civil rights and a state for everybody.. christians and other religions like the samatirans live with muslims peacefully and are all fighting togather against israel so where is the religious motives? what do you think was the motives of the Israeli genocide against the Palestinians inside the Sabra and Shatila camp? they Jews blocked the camp at night not allowing anyone to leave and allowed the christian forces to murder 3500 women and children inside their homes for two days.

False.

Blatanly ignorant of the Imam's in the region.

[Didymus 34,380]

Well I think he meant they, as in Palestinian people. That is what they want basic human and equal rights. I don't know if it's in one state or two, but that is true they want end of occupation.

He's right about this conflict not having solely religious motivation. There is no like 1 imam who yells from minbar and all Palestinians follow him in jihad, as some dumb people believe.

The incitement from religious & political figures do exist on both sides. 

I don't know why some focus on the one side only, is it because Israel is trying to make Hamas and ISIS equal? 

Idk. 

He said there was NO religious motivation or dimension at all. That's a difference. I 100% agree with your post here though.

[mmm 879]

I don't think you need to be presented with "arguments" to know that Hamas is blatantly antisemitic when it suits them and uses Islamic themes such as martyrdom to stimulate and promote Palestinian violence. And that's just on the official level.

And even if there were only political motives - Palestine isn't innocent of disproportionate violence and to justify it under the guise of "they're only asking for civil rights" is an almost comical manipulation of the facts.

I wouldnt say Hamas is antisemitic.. thats like saying nelson mandela and south africans were racist towards the whites during their attacks. Hamas, Palestinians, Arabs were never against the Jews until they entered Palestine and this alone shows that this is a political issue. Martyrdom means to be killed in self defense and its only natural to say islamic words and phrases because we have an islamic culture but none of the actions towars the jews are because of what religion tells them, its all political. Also, Hamas does not represent Palestinian and they only came into power in 2006 after severe oppression.

Yes Palestinians arent innocent of disproportionate violence but they are on the defense.. its like saying native americans werent innocent of violence during the colonial period! Palestinians are asking for their land and to live under one state with equal civil rights for all. The more the oppression continues, the more palestinians will turn radical and hate the jews.

[Didymus 34,380]

Yes Palestinians arent innocent of disproportionate violence but they are on the defense.. its like saying native americans werent innocent of violence during the colonial period! Palestinians are asking for their land and to live under one state with equal civil rights for all. The more the oppression continues, the more palestinians will turn radical and hate the jews.

Though the Native American parallel is problematic, I agree with this, the last sentence especially.

[lego 44,165]

He said there was NO religious motivation or dimension at all. That's a difference. I 100% agree with your post here though.

Ok he can say what he meant, I was just looking this official Hamas spokesperson twitter page

https://twitter.com/HamasInfoEn?s=09

You can go through their timeline, even tweets and articles where they call attacks "heroic", all their rhetorics is political. 

The only case where you can say they use religion, is when they talk about defence of Al-Aqsa. 

[Melech 9,900]

There will always be attacks aslong as Israel dont accept a one state solution.. there is no religious motives as palestinians are only asking for their civil rights and a state for everybody.. christians and other religions like the samatirans live with muslims peacefully and are all fighting togather against israel so where is the religious motives? what do you think was the motives of the Israeli genocide against the Palestinians inside the Sabra and Shatila camp? they Jews blocked the camp at night not allowing anyone to leave and allowed the christian forces to murder 3500 women and children inside their homes for two days.

Omg the ignorance. there were several Jewish massacres before Israel was established. And not to mention the anti-semitism and massacres in other Arab countries.  I mean the 1 million Middle Eastern Jews didn't flee their countries for fun. 

 

[Melech 9,900]

I wouldnt say Hamas is antisemitic.. thats like saying nelson mandela and south africans were racist towards the whites during their attacks. Hamas, Palestinians, Arabs were never against the Jews until they entered Palestine and this alone shows that this is a political issue. Martyrdom means to be killed in self defense and its only natural to say islamic words and phrases because we have an islamic culture but none of the actions towars the jews are because of what religion tells them, its all political. Also, Hamas does not represent Palestinian and they only came into power in 2006 after severe oppression.
Yes Palestinians arent innocent of disproportionate violence but they are on the defense.. its like saying native americans werent innocent of violence during the colonial period! Palestinians are asking for their land and to live under one state with equal civil rights for all. The more the oppression continues, the more palestinians will turn radical and hate the jews.

Boy learn history before you make statements like that. 

[mmm 879]

He said there was NO religious motivation or dimension at all. That's a difference. I 100% agree with your post here though.

Ofcourse there is people with religious motives but they only use religion to justify their political actions.. there is an exception to everything so yes some people have religious motives but the reason for this conflict is not bceause of religious motives.. if they were all atheist, the same reaction would happen. If you ask a Palestinian why are you fighting for your land, you wont get an religious answer. Jews on the other hand use the excuse of the holy sites, religion, DNA, race and history.
 

False.

Blatanly ignorant of the Imam's in the region.

Im a Arab Muslim myself living here so im not ignorant.. I did not even mention any Imam in my argument and there is probably millions of imams that exist.. I can grow a beard and be an imam the next day if I wanted..

[Melech 9,900]

"For example, there were numerous incidents of massacres and ethnic cleansing of Jews in North Africa,[12] especially in Morocco, Libya and Algeria where eventually Jews were forced to live in ghettos.[13] Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in the Middle Ages in Egypt, Syria, Iraqand Yemen.[14] At certain times in Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death.[15]"

Sounds such a totally non-anti-semitic place.

[lego 44,165]

"For example, there were numerous incidents of massacres and ethnic cleansing of Jews in North Africa,[12] especially in Morocco, Libya and Algeria where eventually Jews were forced to live in ghettos.[13] Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in the Middle Ages in Egypt, Syria, Iraqand Yemen.[14] At certain times in Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death.[15]"

Sounds such a totally non-anti-semitic place.

from the same page

" While there were antisemitic incidents in the early twentieth century, antisemitism increased dramatically as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. "

 

[Melech 9,900]

from the same page

" While there were antisemitic incidents in the early twentieth century, antisemitism increased dramatically as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict. "

 

So what? He said that Arabs never attacked Jews. 

Also the belief that it's okay to hate Jews because of Israel is stupid. Its like hating and kicking Muslims out for IS (which we can all agree on is totally wrong. IS is not even comparable to Israel though because they are more vile ofc)

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

 

Im a Arab Muslim myself living here so im not ignorant.. I did not even mention any Imam in my argument and there is probably millions of imams that exist.. I can grow a beard and be an imam the next day if I wanted..

Irrelevant to my post.  

Regional religious leaders are calling for the faithful to slit the throats of the Jews.  Numerous attacks by Palestinians wielding knives against civilians and soldiers alike have been occurring since. 

The land disputes cannot proceed during violent conflict, therefore the Palestinian cause is self defeating if they mean to gain self governing statehood.  Add Hamas(1/3 of all Palestinian people) and their goal is clear...Political goals cannot be attained by the methods currently employed...

Don't bother responding to this post please, your a waste of discussion imo...

[mmm 879]

Omg the ignorance. there were several Jewish massacres before Israel was established. And not to mention the anti-semitism and massacres in other Arab countries.  I mean the 1 million Middle Eastern Jews didn't flee their countries for fun. 

 

The violence started because there was a heavy zionist movement happening and they destroyed and removed the refugee houses of Moroccans witch was a old historic neighborhood made by Saladin as a charity. Riots started until both parties started attacking each other with casualties on both sides with a result of 133 Jews and 116 Arabs killed. The Jews that left the Middle East happened because of the Jewish occupation of Palestine. Im not justifying anyones actions, but im saying that the motives here are all political.

[Melech 9,900]

The violence started because there was a heavy zionist movement happening and they destroyed and removed the refugee houses of Moroccans witch was a old historic neighborhood made by Saladin as a charity. Riots started until both parties started attacking each other with casualties on both sides with a result of 133 Jews and 116 Arabs killed. The Jews that left the Middle East happened because of the Jewish occupation of Palestine.

"For example, there were numerous incidents of massacres and ethnic cleansing of Jews in North Africa,[12] especially in Morocco, Libya and Algeria where eventually Jews were forced to live in ghettos.[13] Decrees ordering the destruction of synagogues were enacted in the Middle Ages in Egypt, Syria, Iraqand Yemen.[14] At certain times in Yemen, Morocco and Baghdad, Jews were forced to convert to Islam or face death.[15]"

Sounds such a totally non-anti-semitic place.

That all happened before Zionism came alive. 

Also according to that logic, should we kick all Muslims out because of their s--tty leaders in their countries ?