TIME reminds the public of Gwen Stefani's alleged racism

[craig 680]

"Even though to me, a Japanese schoolgirl uniform is kind of like blackface, I am just in acceptance over it, because something is better than nothing. An ugly picture is better than a blank space,

 

I give Margaret credit for that. The white lady quoting her ignores that point.

Fact is, if we become overly censorious of any depiction of Asian culture by whites, it WILL be ignored and consigned to invisibility.

[craig 680]

But i equate it to this: Some gay people tell their friends that they can say the word ******* if they want, right? But that doesn't mean that it isn't still an offensive term that a majority of gay people don't want to hear.

 

 

But Gwen isn't using offensive words like jap or chink.

 

Condemning Gwen would be more like feminists complaining that men dressing as Drag Queen was a kind of blackface that is offensive. I know it's inspired by admiration of women, but it's "appropriation" from an oppressed group. http://www.wbez.org/blog/city-room-blog/onstagebackstage-drag-s-xist

[Jed 7,716]

But Gwen isn't using offensive words like jap or chink.

 

Condemning Gwen would be more like feminists complaining that men dressing as Drag Queen was a kind of blackface that is offensive. I know it's inspired by admiration of women, but it's "appropriation" from an oppressed group. http://www.wbez.org/blog/city-room-blog/onstagebackstage-drag-s-xist

I was responding to the use of the native american motif in Looking Hot, and the band saying they had native american friends that were okay with it

[Kermit the frog 1,860]

Americans need to cool it with their political coretness bullsh*t, seriously. What the fock?!

[Jed 7,716]

Americans need to cool it with their political coretness bullsh*t, seriously. What the fock?!

And the asian people who take offense to it can go f*ck themselves?

[Kermit the frog 1,860]

And the asian people who take offense to it can go f*ck themselves?

 

That whole era was a performance piece involving people who happened to be Asian. If they don't understand that then yes, they can go f*ck themselves.

[Pop 4,541]

I can't believe I used to stan her. It's kind of gross now that you think of how she used these girls as exotic pets basically. 

[Kermit the frog 1,860]

I can't believe I used to stan her. It's kind of gross now that you think of how she used these girls as exotic pets basically. 

 

THOSE COULD BE WHITE WOMEN TOO OH MY GOD

 

Seriously, THINK!

[craig 680]

And the asian people who take offense to it can go f*ck themselves?

I'm annoyed at the article writer, not Margaret.

 

First she's white herself, and relies on ONE Korean to make a point about Japanese portrayal.

Then she ignores Margaret's point about imperfect portrayal being better than invisibility.

 

Then she's dredging it up 10 years later, and demands an apology. She can't just criticize Gwen's art as cheesy etc. It's a f*cking racial incident and she's entitled to demand Gwen grovel for forgiveness.

[Retep 0]

But most of the discussion was later on. If you want to see the part I think exemplifies  the alleged racism I would point to 

 

But i equate it to this: Some gay people tell their friends that they can say the word ******* if they want, right? But that doesn't mean that it isn't still an offensive term that a majority of gay people don't want to hear. EDIT: The word i meant was the f word that doesn't rhyme with duck

 

I can get what you'e saying, to me the naming of them was to place them within the piece, in this case the album, and make them become an iconic part of it. Within the confines of the MB story line Gaga renamed the main characters within the performance as Posh and Champagne. Just as with Gwen, I don't see this as erasing them as a people. Instead they took on a character for the performance as a whole, just as Gaga has with being referred to and ultimately known as Gaga. 

 

Just the same I think this was an album cycle celebrating the culture, unfortunately others feel otherwise for their own reasons. Anyone can cry foul though but at the end of the day if we all limited ourselves to not celebrating the cultures of others we would have an almost sterilization of differences and understanding. Margaret Cho has every right to see the album and performances as she wants but I don't see the benefit in limiting anyone from wanting to explore your culture further and present it to a larger audience when it's done in a non-harmful/non-racist way. 

 

Side note: Is it not racist to a slight degree for us to be discussing her backup dancers as simply of Asian decent rather than as dancers? In addition, had she not had any dancers of Asian decent she would be placed on blast for being non-inclusive would she not?

[Pop 4,541]

THOSE COULD BE WHITE WOMEN TOO OH MY GOD

 

Seriously, THINK!

 

But they're not. 

 

She specifically used asian women and appropriated them as harajuku fashion drones without personalities who are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK. 

 

If you don't see a problem here and question why people are offended, you're the one with the problem. So I suggest you take your own advice and rethink why you are defending a rich white woman using racial minorities as props. 

[Jed 7,716]

I can get what you'e saying, to me the naming of them was to place them within the piece, in this case the album, and make them become an iconic part of it. Within the confines of the MB story line Gaga renamed the main characters within the performance as Posh and Champagne. Just as with Gwen, I don't see this as erasing them as a people. Instead they took on a character for the performance as a whole, just as Gaga has with being referred to and ultimately known as Gaga. 

 

Just the same I think this was an album cycle celebrating the culture, unfortunately others feel otherwise for their own reasons. Anyone can cry foul though but at the end of the day if we all limited ourselves to not celebrating the cultures of others we would have an almost sterilization of differences and understanding. Margaret Cho has every right to see the album and performances as she wants but I don't see the benefit in limiting anyone from wanting to explore your culture further and present it to a larger audience when it's done in a non-harmful/non-racist way. 

 

Side note: Is it not racist to a slight degree for us to be discussing her backup dancers as simply of Asian decent rather than as dancers? In addition, had she not had any dancers of Asian decent she would be placed on blast for being non-inclusive would she not?

I understand everything else about what you are saying, I just still refuse to appreciate the wording of

"I'd get me four Harajuku girls to

I'd dress them wicked, I'd give them names"

But I will say I never saw it as as "taking on characters", that is definitely worth thinking about, as well as the last point you made.

 

 

THOSE COULD BE WHITE WOMEN TOO OH MY GOD

 

Seriously, THINK!

If she took any four girls from any race besides her own and "renamed" them and had them follow her anywhere it would look the way this poster saw it. Don't insult them because they see something that you don't see.

 

I wonder how would people react if this whole era she wanted to appreciate Nigerian culture and beauty and she hired four back up dancers that were all black to follow her not only for performances but for public appearances and gave them new names? It is interesting to ponder, I don't know if people would have the same reaction.

[craig 680]

She specifically used asian women and appropriated them as harajuku fashion drones without personalities who are NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK. 

 

If you don't see a problem here and question why people are offended, you're the one with the problem. So I suggest you take your own advice and rethink why you are defending a rich white woman using racial minorities as props. 

 

They ARE allowed to speak in the song. Which is rare for back-up singers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YbGN1BMSLc

[craig 680]

I wonder how would people react if this whole era she wanted to appreciate Nigerian culture and beauty and she hired four back up dancers that were all black to follow her not only for performances but for public appearances and gave them new names? It is interesting to ponder, I don't know if people would have the same reaction.

 

Americans are naturally uptight about this because of slavery and segregation and continued white/black racial tension.

Why assimilate Asians to all that baggage just because they are are non-white? When they were never enslaved and aren't an economic underclass.

 

Seems Asian-white relations are more similar to Italians and WASPS than blacks and whites. 

The root of our disagreement - you are equating Asian with black experience, while I equate it more with American portrayals of Canadians and various European cultures which can be somewhat stereotypical but no big deal.

[Jed 7,716]

Americans are naturally uptight about this because of slavery and segregation and continued white/black racial tension.

Why assimilate Asians to all that baggage just because they are are non-white? When they were never enslaved and aren't an economic underclass.

 

Seems Asian-white relations are more similar to Italians and WASPS than blacks and whites. 

The root of our disagreement - you are equating Asian with black experience, while I equate it more with American portrayals of Canadians and various European cultures which can be somewhat stereotypical but no big deal.

I see what you're saying. It's such an incendiary topic, isn't it?