Shots Fired At Parliament Hill

[Sabertooth 2]

**** is getting real. I can't believe how **** the security is at parliament hill. Nathan Cirillo got shot and killed and he didn't even have any bullets in his gun. Asshole(s) just ran into the buliding like a piece of cake. Are you ****ing with me? Horrible **** just went down, but wtf? Do we even have security in Canada?

[Teal Ambition 47,805]

So they've identified the gunmen:

 

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, the slain gunman in Wednesday’s shooting at the Ottawa War Memorial and Parliament Buildings, had a criminal record in Quebec and British Columbia.

Court documents obtained by CBC News show that Zehaf-Bibeau pleaded guilty to charges including d--g possession and robbery.

 

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/michael-zehaf-bibeau-slain-ottawa-shooter-had-criminal-record-in-quebec-b-c-1.2809562?cmp=fbtl

 

Also a video at the Parliament Hill today:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrGqoISd-do&feature=youtu.be

 

That's like 50 gun shots in less than a minute 

[Goosey 3,017]

Nathan Cirillo got shot and killed and he didn't even have any bullets in his gun.

 

So stupid... what's the point of giving them a rifle in the first place if it has no ammo?

 

So they've identified the gunmen:

 

Michael Zehaf-Bibeau

"Some U.S. government sources said the shooter was born Michael Joseph Hall but changed his name to Zehaf-Bibeau. He was apparently a recent convert to Islam."

Why am I not surprised? It's another Muslim guy, as expected. Maybe they should monitor anyone buying a Koran or an Arab headscarf to see if they are a possible radical.

[lego 44,165]

So stupid... what's the point of giving them a rifle in the first place if it has no ammo?

 

"Some U.S. government sources said the shooter was born Michael Joseph Hall but changed his name to Zehaf-Bibeau. He was apparently a recent convert to Islam."

Why am I not surprised? It's another Muslim guy, as expected. Maybe they should monitor anyone buying a Koran or an Arab headscarf to see if they are a possible radical.

What kind of ignorant statement. Can you stop generalizing?

[Teal Ambition 47,805]

 

So stupid... what's the point of giving them a rifle in the first place if it has no ammo?

 

"Some U.S. government sources said the shooter was born Michael Joseph Hall but changed his name to Zehaf-Bibeau. He was apparently a recent convert to Islam."

I thought it was one too because of the situation that happened in Quebec yesterday. I'm pretty sure theres a link somehow. What are the odds that they both shot soldiers..

[lego 44,165]

I thought it was one too because of the situation that happened in Quebec yesterday. I'm pretty sure theres a link somehow. What are the odds that they both shot soldiers..

They are probably IS supporters and here's an interesting article about WHY these things happen. The CAUSE:

 

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/22/canada-proclaiming-war-12-years-shocked-someone-attacked-soldiers/]https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/22/canada-proclaiming-war-12-years-shocked-someone-attacked-soldiers/

 

......

The right-wing Canadian government wasted no time in seizing on the incident to promote its fear-mongering agenda over terrorism, which includes pending legislation to vest its intelligence agency, CSIS, with more spying and secrecy powers in the name of fighting ISIS. A government spokesperson asserted “clear indications†that the driver “had become radicalized.â€

In a “clearly prearranged exchange,†a conservative MP, during parliamentary question time, asked Prime Minister Stephen Harper (pictured above) whether this was considered a “terrorist attackâ€; in reply, the prime minister gravely opined that the incident was “obviously extremely troubling.†Canada’s Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney pronounced the incident “clearly linked to terrorist ideology,†while newspapers predictably followed suit, calling it a “suspected terrorist attack†and “homegrown terrorism.†CSIS spokesperson Tahera Mufti said “the event was the violent expression of an extremist ideology promoted by terrorist groups with global followings†and added: “That something like this would happen in a peaceable Canadian community like Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu shows the long reach of these ideologies.â€

In sum, the national mood and discourse in Canada is virtually identical to what prevails in every Western country whenever an incident like this happens: shock and bewilderment that someone would want to bring violence to such a good and innocent country (“a peaceable Canadian community like Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieuâ€), followed by claims that the incident shows how primitive and savage is the “terrorist ideology†of extremist Muslims, followed by rage and demand for still more actions of militarism and freedom-deprivation. There are two points worth making about this:

First, Canada has spent the last 13 years proclaiming itself a nation at war. It actively participated in the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan and was an enthusiastic partner in some of the most extremist War on Terror abuses perpetrated by the U.S. Earlier this month, the Prime Minister revealed, with the support of a large majority of Canadians, that “Canada is poised to go to war in Iraq, as [he] announced plans in Parliament [] to send CF-18 fighter jets for up to six months to battle Islamic extremists.†Just yesterday, Canadian Defence Minister Rob Nicholson flamboyantly appeared at the airfield in Alberta from which the fighter jets left for Iraq and stood tall as he issued the standard Churchillian war rhetoric about the noble fight against evil.

It is always stunning when a country that has brought violence and military force to numerous countries acts shocked and bewildered when someone brings a tiny fraction of that violence back to that country. Regardless of one’s views on the justifiability of Canada’s lengthy military actions, it’s not the slightest bit surprising or difficult to understand why people who identify with those on the other end of Canadian bombs and bullets would decide to attack the military responsible for that violence.

That’s the nature of war. A country doesn’t get to run around for years wallowing in war glory, invading, rendering and bombing others, without the risk of having violence brought back to it. Rather than being baffling or shocking, that reaction is completely natural and predictable. The only surprising thing about any of it is that it doesn’t happen more often.

The issue here is not justification (very few people would view attacks on soldiers in a shopping mall parking lot to be justified). The issue is causation. Every time one of these attacks occurs  from 9/11 on down  Western governments pretend that it was just some sort of unprovoked, utterly “senseless†act of violence caused by primitive, irrational, savage religious extremism inexplicably aimed at a country innocently minding its own business. They even invent fairy tales to feed to the population to explain why it happens: they hate us for our freedoms.

Those fairy tales are pure deceit. Except in the rarest of cases, the violence has clearly identifiable and easy-to-understand causes: namely, anger over the violence that the country’s government has spent years directing at others. The statements of those accused by the west of terrorism, and even the Pentagon’s own commissioned research, have made conclusively clear what motivates these acts: namely, anger over the violence, abuse and interference by Western countries in that part of the world, with the world’s Muslims overwhelmingly the targets and victims. The very policies of militarism and civil liberties erosions justified in the name of stopping terrorism are actually what fuels terrorism and ensures its endless continuation.

If you want to be a country that spends more than a decade proclaiming itself at war and bringing violence to others, then one should expect that violence will sometimes be directed at you as well. Far from being the by-product of primitive and inscrutable religions, that behavior is the natural reaction of human beings targeted with violence. Anyone who doubts that should review the 13-year orgy of violence the U.S. has unleashed on the world since the 9/11 attack, as well as the decades of violence and interference from the U.S. in that region prior to that.

......

UPDATE: Multiple conservative commentators have claimed that this article and my subsequent discussion of it are about this morning’s shooting of a solider in Ottawa. Aside from the fact that what I wrote is expressly about a completely different incident – one that took place in Quebec on Monday – this article and my comments were published before this morning’s shooting spree was reported. So unless someone believes I possess powers of clairvoyance, the claim that I was commenting on the Ottawa shooting – about which virtually nothing is known, including the identity and motive of the shooter(s) – is obviously false.

Then there’s also the extremely predictable accusation that I was justifying the attack on the soldiers. I know from prior experience in discussing these questions that no matter how clear you make it that you are writing about causation and not justification, many will still distort what you write to claim you’ve justified the attack. That’s true even if one makes as clear as the English language permits that you’re not writing about justification: “The issue here is not justification (very few people would view attacks on soldiers in a shopping mall parking lot to be justified). The issue is causation.†If there’s a way to make that any clearer, please let me know.

One more time: the difference between “causation†and “justification†is so obvious that it should require no explanation. If one observes that someone who smokes four packs of cigarettes a day can expect to develop emphysema, that’s an observation about causation, not a celebration of the person’s illness. Only a willful desire to distort, or some deep confusion, can account for a failure to process this most basic point.

UPDATE II: In that brilliant essay I referenced above, published just three days ago in The New York Times, Professor Tomis Kaptian made this point:

Obviously, to point out the causes and objectives of particular terrorist actions is to imply nothing about their legitimacy  that is an independent matter….

That point is so simple and, as he said, “obvious†that I have a hard time understanding what could account for some commentators conflating the two other than a willful desire to mislead.

Email the author: [email protected]

[Goosey 3,017]

I thought it was one too because of the situation that happened in Quebec yesterday. I'm pretty sure theres a link somehow. What are the odds that they both shot soldiers..

 

Well to be precise the first one ran over a soldier in his car.

 

They are probably IS supporters and here's an interesting article about WHY these things happen. The CAUSE:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/22/canada-proclaiming-war-12-years-shocked-someone-attacked-soldiers/

WaiT are you trying to defend this? And what's with the Hamas set?

By the way that link you sent: members of the US military are banned from reading it and the FBI is investigating them...

What kind of ignorant statement. Can you stop generalizing?

I believe in effectiveness, not political correctness... example, if "group X" is statistically more likely to commit a certain crime, I will be more watchful of "group X" than other groups.

The alternative is to say "I don't generalize" and apply the same rules to everyone just on principle. Very sanctimonious I'm sure. But that's not being as effective as possible.

So given that, in the present political climate, radical Muslims are more likely to commit these kinds of terrorist acts, they should focus on radical Muslims. To treat the 80-year-old grandma from Red Deer the exact same as the 24-year-old bearded recent convert to Islam would be stupid.

[EXCXSXE 0]

They are probably IS supporters and here's an interesting article about WHY these things happen. The CAUSE:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/22/canada-proclaiming-war-12-years-shocked-someone-attacked-soldiers/

 

I find it very insensitive that you'd post this article in this discussion. 

 

I'd also be careful about spreading links from that website... 

[TEANUS 16,156]

I literally HATE terrorists (any shape or form) with a passion, idc what your f*cking reason is, you have zero right to kill innocent people so f*ck off and take a chill pill :awkney:

[Teal Ambition 47,805]

 

Well to be precise the first one ran over a soldier in his car.

 

Well yeah, but you know what i mean

[juicyjuicy 2,005]

I live in Toronto and this is just scary. Never expected something like this to hit so close to home...I have a few friends from Ottawa.

[Miker 5,683]

People that are brainwashed to think that an act of terrorism supports their cause, it is but a cowardly act. To cause fear mongering and pain amongst innocent people just substantiates how worthless their existence is. Shoot them between the eyes.

[craig 680]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/10/22/michael-zehaf-bibeau-ottawa-shooting_n_6030546.html

 

So both our recent terrorists are Quebeckers, who just converted to ISIS-Islam, who can be described as mentally unstable losers and scum.

 

At least our immigration system isn't letting in violent extremists or alienating immigrants - the problem is ISIS-Islam ideas and their appeal for a certain kind of person.

 

PS: Apparently the guys father was Libyan, but the mom was very establishment.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2804099/Pictured-Recent-Muslim-convert-Michael-Zehaf-Bibeau-shot-dead-solider-opened-fire-Canadian-Parliament.html

[craig 680]

They are probably IS supporters and here's an interesting article about WHY these things happen. The CAUSE:

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/22/canada-proclaiming-war-12-years-shocked-someone-attacked-soldiers/

I'm surprised you'd want to dignify some loopy recent convert killing in the name of ISIS, as some kind of warrior acting on behalf on the Islamic world against the West. Greenwald is a typical leftist idiot who hates America and imagines our extremist enemies are driven by HIS grievances with it's foreign policy, rather than by a religious ideology.

[lego 44,165]

Well to be precise the first one ran over a soldier in his car. WaiT are you trying to defend this? And what's with the Hamas set?By the way that link you sent: members of the US military are banned from reading it and the FBI is investigating them...I believe in effectiveness, not political correctness... example, if "group X" is statistically more likely to commit a certain crime, I will be more watchful of "group X" than other groups.The alternative is to say "I don't generalize" and apply the same rules to everyone just on principle. Very sanctimonious I'm sure. But that's not being as effective as possible.So given that, in the present political climate, radical Muslims are more likely to commit these kinds of terrorist acts, they should focus on radical Muslims. To treat the 80-year-old grandma from Red Deer the exact same as the 24-year-old bearded recent convert to Islam would be stupid.

What Hamas set? Are you that ignorant or just pretending to be?

No, I'm not trying to defend this, you could tell that if you would read the article. So you're banned from reading it? Why?

Group X? It's not a group, Muslims are followers of a religion close to 2 billion people. There is literally no muslim family without AT LEAST 1 copy of Qur'an plus various translations of the meaning. You are saying everyone who buys it is a potential terrorist. People also buy it out of curiousity.

People with radical ideas don't get radicalized by reading Qur'an, they get radicalized because of long term violence they see, the group like IS offers them "solution", then they act. They search for "proofs" to their actions AFTER not before.

And you didn't say to monitor radicals, but everyone who buys Qur'an or Arab scarf, which is ridiculous and practically impossible. Another misconception is that every terrorist is bearded. Most of those who did or planned terror attacks in West were clear-shaven and in Western clothes.