Ukraine & Russia Conflict Discussion

[South Blonde 6,367]

He's complitely crazy + needs to be stopped as soon as possible... before it's too late!

[socotra 3,357]

But in what way is he trying to establish an empire? I am trying to speak with all the respect to you, but are people partly blind? There is a strong campaign in the media with the aim to portray Putin as the Darth Vader, but what is he really guilty for? 

 

Strangely, nobody gives a f*ck about all the mess the NATO countries have done in the recent years. The IRAQ invasion. Was it justified? How many of those banned weapons of mass destruction did they find? They simply bombed the f*ck out of the country, pretending to be searching for the weapons that have never been there. And people have swallowed it like it's not a big deal. And in UK there was even an investigation of the whole situation, the IRAQ INQUIRY. But the government vetoed the release of the documents (oh, what a shocker   ). So technically it's OK to find a fake excuse for the invasion, and ten years later say: OK, we made a mistake, let's leave the country. And what is now happening in IRAQ? The building of the extremist state. Amazing. 

 

How about LIBYA? The NATO operation ended very successfully, they took down GADDAFI. Really cool. Has anybody tried to find out how the country is right now? I think once again, the world doesn't give a f*ck. Because LIBYA has "gradually descended into its current state of virtual anarchy". There are fights with the Islamic militant groups, but it's NATO - it couldn't do wrong. 

 

I don't even want to imagine what's going to happen to Afghanistan after the NATO troops leave the place. 

 

What I am trying to say: try to drop the stupid vision which is being projected on you by media and politicians. NATO is one of the messiest organizations ever. Putin is no saint, surely, but most of his actions are a response towards NATO and EU intentions in the regions close to his territory.

 

When they (Russia) invaded Georgia, it was because Georgia president Mikheil Saakashvili decided to fight the so-called separatist within the Georgia territory from the blessing of the US government. Guess what's with him now? Mikheil Saakashvili has been put on the country's domestic wanted list. Basically he will be detained once he crosses the Georgian border by the Georgian government. 

 

With the Ukraine, it is even more simple. The EU wanted to sign the trade agreement with the government, and NATO is not against Ukraine joining the alliance. However, people prefer to ignore that almost half of the country is against the trade agreement with the EU and the alliance with NATO. Google the 2010 presidential elections in Ukraine, when pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych candidate was against pro-European Yulia Tymoshenko candidate. The election outcome was 48.95% to  45.47% in popular vote. This is a very narrow proportion which is a strong sign of the fact that the country's population is non-homogeneous in its views. But the media want to you to view Ukrainians as a poor democratic society who wants to step away from big evil Putin. Gross.   There are two different regions in the country, and when the south-eastern part of Ukraine decided to express its dissatisfaction with the strange change of power which took place in February (and it was not the most constitutional change of power which took place) the central government simply decided to tone the talks down by bombing the f*ck out of those regions. Oh what a familiar scheme    So when the EU and NATO are pursuing their interests in the region so close to Russian borders he has to do something. I doubt the US government would hesitate if Russia launched the change of government power in Mexico. 

 

What I mean to say is doubt, inquire and search. Do not trust the media, cause these are the same media which launched a massive support campaign for the IRAQ invasion, for the LIBYA invasion, and look what happened to those countries. The truth is that Putin is neither evil nor saint, he just seems to be the only politician in the world who is not afraid to openly act against the US government. 

 

I agree, the U.S. has absolutely ****ed up. However, this topic is about Russia, not the United States, so forgive me for not bringing in irrelevancies like what the United States and United Kingdom did in Iraq a decade ago, in Libya a few years ago, etc. The biggest difference between US/UK invading Iraq and Russia invading Ukraine is one term: ANNEX. The UK/US never went into the Iraq/Libya/etc. with the intentions of absorbing it into their respective unions as a 51st state or 5th country. Russia is now calling a larger portion of Ukraine "Novorossiya" and claiming that because it used to be a part of Russia, they have a right to annex it. Regardless of who's living there, who the demographic is and whether or not they want Russia there, you don't just invade a country and willfully defy the government established there. It's about government, not what the people want. I personally think what the people want is most important, but there's a line, and Russia hugely crossed it with tanks instead of diplomacy. You don't just invade prior territories because the people living there want you to. If that's the case, if Alaskans suddenly decided they wanted to join the Russian Federation, what would you say about Russia invading and retaking Alaska? Should America just not respond because we aren't homogenous in views?

[Applause 650]

I agree, the U.S. has absolutely ****ed up. However, this topic is about Russia, not the United States, so forgive me for not bringing in irrelevancies like what the United States and United Kingdom did in Iraq a decade ago, in Libya a few years ago, etc. The biggest difference between US/UK invading Iraq and Russia invading Ukraine is one term: ANNEX. The UK/US never went into the Iraq/Libya/etc. with the intentions of absorbing it into their respective unions as a 51st state or 5th country. Russia is now calling a larger portion of Ukraine "Novorossiya" and claiming that because it used to be a part of Russia, they have a right to annex it. Regardless of who's living there, who the demographic is and whether or not they want Russia there, you don't just invade a country and willfully defy the government established there. It's about government, not what the people want. I personally think what the people want is most important, but there's a line, and Russia hugely crossed it with tanks instead of diplomacy. You don't just invade prior territories because the people living there want you to. If that's the case, if Alaskans suddenly decided they wanted to join the Russian Federation, what would you say about Russia invading and retaking Alaska? Should America just not respond because we aren't homogenous in views?

This would have been my response. Thanks for pointing everything out.

But yes, we are on the discussion of Russia. And, what the US did, is fully different that of Russia is currently doing. The intentions and goals are completely different. Thus, let's stay on topic of the OP, Russia.

[Ursula Buffay 73]

he must die

 

Sadly it's not about the man as much as it is about the government, even if he dies it won't change a single thing. :s

[Mariann 301]

This madness must be stopped.

[elixt 34]

Great.. my worst fear coming to the surface

 

Jesus I don't think I can deal with this at all 

[MahoganySnitch 67]

 

fun fact, in the 70s, there was a glitch on rusian radars saying there was a full nuclear attack on the way, it was up to one man to decide if they should retaliate, but he followed his gut and didnt make the call to report it, he literally stopped a nuclear war that was going to be caused by a computer glitch

I know of another situation where a meteor was initially mistaken to be offensive fire, but some higher-up said to hold off and lucky for us, did not return fire to what was not even fire, but nature. Maybe this scenario is the same?

[LoyalMonster 53]

Would be great if someone sniped Putin.What a dick.

[Antichrist 9,818]

Ukraine joining NATO.. Mess.

[ByeBye49 161]

Oh dear....

[bionic 50,111]

let me move to moscow and hide in putin's bunker tbh

[SleepingSun 1,480]

Using Nuclear weapons is the height of stupidity. You may be able to kill many enemies at once. But for what price? Making large parts of our Planet uninhabitable! This Planet is the only f*cking piece of rock we can live on at the moment, so what do you gain from destroying it? Everyone who approves of the use of nulcear weapons needs to be removed from a position of power. But sadly, that's how our world is like. The most stupid poeple are the most powerful.

[Didymus 34,380]

I'm not really sure why this is a big deal. Even the Israeli forces have nuclear weapons and I wouldn't want to step on the toes of the U.S. either Why is Putin more of an idiot than any of those guys?

[thatfoxyfeeling 13,410]

Surely the Russian public doesn't have the same mind set as Putin? Or are they being brain washed? It's like North Korea except Russia actually does have nuclear weapons :rip:

[socotra 3,357]

 

 

France has said conditions are "not right" for delivery of the first of two Mistral navy assault ships to Russia.

President Francois Hollande's office blamed Moscow's recent actions in Ukraine.

France had until now resisted pressure to halt the delivery, saying it had to respect an existing contract.

Russia's Deputy Defence Minister Yury Borisov said the French decision would not hold back Moscow's plans to reform its armed forces.

"Although of course it is unpleasant and adds to certain tensions in relations with our French partners, the cancelling of this contract will not be a tragedy for our modernisation," he said, quoted by Itar-Tass news agency.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin tweeted his thanks to the French leadership for its "responsible decision", which he said was "important for restoring peace in Europe".

The Vladivostok, the first of the two helicopter carriers, was expected to have been delivered to Russia by late October.

The second, the Sevastopol, was to have been sent next year, although no mention of it was made in Mr Hollande's statement.

As the crisis has escalated in eastern Ukraine and as Russia's direct military role there has become more blatant, so the pressure on the French government to halt its sale of two advanced assault ships to Russia has grown ever stronger.

The US and a number of other countries have long made their feelings plain. But the deal weathered tensions with Moscow over Syria, and the Russian crew of the first vessel which is already undergoing sea trials has travelled to France to begin training.

This was the most significant Western arms sale to Russia and its postponement - the exact terms of the suspension of the deal are not clear - marks a very visible rebuff to Moscow on the eve of Nato's Wales Summit.

The Mistral assault ships can carry up to 16 heavy helicopters, land troops and armoured vehicles. Their delivery would have resulted in a marked improvement in Russia's amphibious capability.

 

Full article: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29052599

 

Go France! :)