Israel - Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[lego 44,165]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_0mEbyz54Q

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1P7D85xKw

 

 

So much respect for these people.

[Noam Zioni 1,201]

Please tell me the difference between saying using people as human shields and saying killing people? it's the godamn same thing, stop trying to twist the words.

Misleading=/= false . Those IDF clothes are obviously true, not only they are published in Haartz, Israeli press, but also the same thing happened several times. And it's not one person or two, but since their supervisors approve that, it's when it starts to get sickening. And there was also that IDF soldiers who was so pride of killing like 13 palestinian children or something like that.

The last part sounds like my dear friend dolev, are you related? :)

If someone kills someone else, it doesn't mean he is using him as a human shield, he is killing him.

I didn't say that misleading=false, I said that this is misleading AND false.

The IDF clothes are false, have you ever seen someone of our soldiers fighting with it? No, right?

"Or something like that", you just live under lego's wing, copying him. No one was proud about killing innocent child, if so, show me.

The last part, be surprised, came out of my mouth. I know Dolev, not personally, but I know him. And if 2 people already said you are embarrassing yourself, you probably are.

[lego 44,165]

For those of you who wants to see how the IDF REALLY dresses like, there you go:

http://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/מדי_צ×â€"ל

"IDF Clothes" - in translation from Hebrew.

https://www.google.com.tr/search?q=מדי+צ×â€"ל&client=safari&hl=he&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=CTXtU9z4GueZ0QX3zYCQBQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=460&dpr=2

Google search for "מדי צ×â€Ã—´Ã—œ×´" which means "IDF Clothes"

I didn't say that misleading=false, I said that this is misleading AND false.

The IDF clothes are false, have you ever seen someone of our soldiers fighting with it? No, right?

 

 

 

The clothes posted are NOT OFFICIAL UNIFORMS, no one said that. They are custom made, ordered by soldiers for their battalions and you saying it's false doesn't really make it false.

 

 

A sharpshooter's T-shirt from the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion shows a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills." A "graduation" shirt for those who have completed another snipers course depicts a Palestinian baby, who grows into a combative boy and then an armed adult, with the inscription, "No matter how it begins, we'll put an end to it."

 

 

The office at the Adiv fabric-printing shop in south Tel Aviv handles a constant stream of customers, many of them soldiers in uniform, who come to order custom clothing featuring their unit's insignia, usually accompanied by a slogan and drawing of their choosing.

 

 

Get it now?

 

Find the shop and question the owner/worker is it true.

[lego 44,165]

"Or something like that", you just live under lego's wing, copying him. No one was proud about killing innocent child, if so, show me.

 

 

Darkwolf is his own person, we don't know each other and just because we are both for free Palestine, doesn't mean he's copying me or anyone else here.

 

And for your information, and everyone else's who keeps calling me ''he/him'', I am a proud mother of two. Not a male.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

the Ten points of teh hamas peace plan :

• Withdrawal of Israeli tanks from the Gaza border.

• Freeing all the prisoners that were arrested after the killing of the three youths.

• Lifting the siege and opening the border crossings to commerce and people.

• Establishing an international seaport and airport, which would be under U.N. supervision.

• Increasing the permitted fishing zone to 10 kilometers.

• Internationalizing the Rajah Crossing and placing it under the supervision of the U.N. and some Arab nations.

• International forces on the borders.

• Easing conditions for permits to pray at the Al-Aqua Mosque.

• Prohibition on Israeli interference in the reconciliation agreement

• Reestablishing an industrial zone and improvements in further economic development in the Gaza Strip.

Hey these are all valid points ... good place to negotiate ...

Except, even if Israel meets all of these demands.... Hamas won't stop murdering Jewish people...

Where is the part about the 'stolen' land being returned????????

I keep hearing about 'land' and belonging to 'Arabs' ect... and Jewish people should go to the U.S. or somewhere else....

Really, its pointless to discuss anything at all till Hamas and the other militant factions cease their attacks and attmepts to kill Israeli's ...

Please take your demands back to the drawing board and revise your strategy....nothing will ever come of these peace talks without first laying down your arms and attemts to murder civilians.

[lego 44,165]

Israel Braces for War Crimes Inquiries on Gaza

JERUSALEM  The fighting is barely over in the latest Gaza war, with a five-day cease-fire taking hold on Thursday, but attention has already shifted to the legal battlefield as Israel gears up to defend itself against international allegations of possible war crimes in the monthlong conflict.

Israel has excoriated the United Nations Human Rights Council over the appointment of Prof. William Schabas, a Canadian expert in international law, to head the council’s commission of inquiry for Israel’s military operations in the Gaza Strip.

The broader struggle will be over what some experts describe as Israel’s “creative†interpretation of international law for dealing with asymmetric warfare in an urban environment. More than 1,900 Palestinians were killed in the recent fighting, a majority of them believed to be civilians, while on the Israeli side 64 soldiers and three civilians were killed.

Israeli leaders view the Human Rights Council as hopelessly biased against Israel and say statements made in the past by Professor Schabas rule him out as a fair adjudicator. In one prime example, Professor Schabas was filmed in New York almost two years ago saying Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was his “favorite†to be in the dock at the International Criminal Court.

“The report of this committee has already been written,†Mr. Netanyahu said this week. “They have nothing to look for here. They should visit Damascus, Baghdad and Tripoli.â€

Mr. Netanyahu has repeatedly accused Hamas of a “double war crime†for targeting Israeli civilians with its rockets and, he says, using Gaza’s civilians as a human shield for its activities.

Yuval Steinitz, Israel’s minister for strategic affairs, said that paradoxically, the only way Professor Schabas could prove he was worthy of the job would be by resigning from it.

Responding to the accusations by telephone from London, Professor Schabas said Thursday: “Everybody in the world has opinions about Israel and Palestine. I certainly do.â€

He added: “I was recruited for my expertise. I leave my own personal views at the door, as a judge does.â€

Rejecting assertions that he is “anti-Israeli,†he said he had lectured in Israel often and was on the board of the Israel Law Review. “I don’t think everyone in Israel agrees,†he said. “I would fit in well there.â€

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5NqnpJn4JI

A similar Human Rights Council inquiry into the 2008-9 war in Gaza led to the Goldstone Report. Named for Richard Goldstone, the South African jurist who led that inquiry, the report said it found evidence of potential war crimes committed by both Israel and Hamas. It accused Israel of intentionally targeting civilians in Gaza as a matter of policy, a blow that Mr. Netanyahu once described as a strategic challenge.

Mr. Goldstone later retracted that central accusation, writing in The Washington Post, after Israeli investigators presented counterevidence, “If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document.†Other members of the Goldstone panel stood by the report.

In Israel’s latest aerial and ground campaign, several episodes already stand out as likely focuses of international attention, including several deadly Israeli strikes at or near United Nations schools in Gaza where thousands of civilians were taking refuge, actions that the secretary general of the United Nations, Ban Ki-moon, has denounced as “outrageous, unacceptable and unjustifiable.â€

Critics have also pointed to the Israeli military’s policy of bombing family homes it said were being used by Hamas operatives or other groups as “command and control centers†or for weapons storage, causing heavy casualties among civilians, including many minors and women, despite a system of issuing prior warnings. B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization, asserted in a recent report that the practice violated the international legal principles of distinction and proportionality, calling into question the clear military nature of the targets and whether the military gains were significant enough to justify the deaths of civilians.

And questions have been raised about a particularly aggressive and deadly Israeli assault on the southern Gaza Strip city of Rafah on Aug. 1 as Israeli forces pursued a Hamas squad they believed had captured a soldier. Prof. Emanuel Gross, an Israeli expert in military law and a former military judge, said in a recent interview that the firepower used in Rafah to try to return one soldier did not seem justified, morally or legally, and appeared to be “disproportionate.†(The soldier was later declared killed in action.)

In a move that some Israelis hope will take the wind out of the Human Rights Council inquiry and other potential ones by outside groups, Israel’s attorney general and the military advocate general are setting up an independent mechanism for investigating the events in Gaza, and the state comptroller also plans an inquiry.

But the Israeli military is not waiting. Lt. Col. Eran Shamir-Borer, head of the strategic affairs branch in the international law department at the Military Advocate General’s Corps, said in an interview that a recently established military committee of fact-finding teams, independent of the chain of command and made up largely of reservists, is already investigating certain cases and could have some preliminary findings as early as Friday.

Speaking at military headquarters in Tel Aviv, Colonel Shamir-Borer said that since Israel’s 2006 war in Lebanon, the army’s legal counselors have become more involved in operational activity before and during military campaigns, as well as in the aftermath, training commanders, reviewing planned targets and deploying to the Gaza border to work with commanders at the division level during the recent conflict.

“We know the law very well,†Colonel Shamir-Borer said, “but it is always more complex than in the textbooks.â€

“The modus operandi of our enemy,†he said, referring to Hamas, “is by definition defying the laws of armed conflict.â€

Colonel Shamir-Borer said that the planned bombing of homes was reviewed house by house, based on intelligence and other considerations, and guidelines were set for some of the attacks, for example, determining that they could be carried out only at night, or with a drone to check that the residents had evacuated.

Individual cases where many family members were nevertheless killed, such as a July 13 airstrike on a home that killed 18 members of the Batsh family and severely wounded Tayseer al-Batsh, the Hamas police chief in Gaza, are now being examined. In each case the teams will decide if a criminal investigation is warranted. At this stage, the policy of targeting houses is not under review.

Colonel Shamir-Borer said his department had invited nongovernment organizations to submit complaints and had also approached them.

“You know the international community is going to raise allegations,†he said. “You need answers.â€

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/15/world/middleeast/israel-braces-for-war-crimes-inquiries-on-gaza.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimesworld&_r=0&referrer=

[lego 44,165]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z4TvDbffI0

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgwr2Nj_GQ

 

:cry:

[darkwolf 590]

If someone kills someone else, it doesn't mean he is using him as a human shield, he is killing him.

I didn't say that misleading=false, I said that this is misleading AND false.

The IDF clothes are false, have you ever seen someone of our soldiers fighting with it? No, right?

"Or something like that", you just live under lego's wing, copying him. No one was proud about killing innocent child, if so, show me.

The last part, be surprised, came out of my mouth. I know Dolev, not personally, but I know him. And if 2 people already said you are embarrassing yourself, you probably are.

Whatever....you said hamas was killing the children of Gaza: which is still a big lie, just like the lie that the Israeli government was spreading about the "human shields".

I don't even remember what was "false and misleading" since you're always trying to sidestep the real question, which is a known technique of hasbara pro israel

Yeah, the IDF clothes are false, and Israel shoots candies on Gaza and the sky is purple, et la marmotte elle met de l'herbe dans les feuilles

I was just wondering if you know dolev, or if the expressions: "educate yourself", "you're so embarassing","you're so ignorant" are so popular in Israel ^^

[darkwolf 590]

Hey these are all valid points ... good place to negotiate ...

Except, even if Israel meets all of these demands.... Hamas won't stop murdering Jewish people...

Where is the part about the 'stolen' land being returned????????

I keep hearing about 'land' and belonging to 'Arabs' ect... and Jewish people should go to the U.S. or somewhere else....

Really, its pointless to discuss anything at all till Hamas and the other militant factions cease their attacks and attmepts to kill Israeli's ...

Please take your demands back to the drawing board and revise your strategy....nothing will ever come of these peace talks without first laying down your arms and attemts to murder civilians.

How do you know?   Maybe if Israel honestly shows that it wants peace and helps teh Palestinians establish their country the hate will be brought down

I don't know about the "stolen land part", I copied that from somewhere and I dont remember. But Obviously Israel took way more land than the 1948 plan said, so of course they are talking about that fact.

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

How do you know?   Maybe if Israel honestly shows that it wants peace and helps teh Palestinians establish their country the hate will be brought down

I don't know about the "stolen land part", I copied that from somewhere and I dont remember. But Obviously Israel took way more land than the 1948 plan said, so of course they are talking about that fact.

okay, fair nough....

Israel is clearly antagonistic about their settlements, and militarily quick to take action... There are preventable civilian deaths IMO too.

The land disputes seem to be the heart of the matter , I would like to see a non violent resolution to this issue....

( stop the hate)

[lego 44,165]

Yeah, the IDF clothes are false, and Israel shoots candies on Gaza and the sky is purple, et la marmotte elle met de l'herbe dans les feuilles

Omg :lmao:

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

I just hope in the next elections for Palestine Hamas is taken out of power and the Fatah party is put back in power.

[darkwolf 590]

Omg

Lol, the original expression is "et le marmotte elle met le chocolat dans le papier aluminium", but this version is netter ^^

it's actually from a commercial, but now it's used as an expression when someone says bullsh$t or an obvious lie :)

[lego 44,165]

Lol, the original expression is "et le marmotte elle met le chocolat dans le papier aluminium", but this version is netter ^^

it's actually from a commercial, but now it's used as an expression when someone says bullsh$t or an obvious lie :)

I studied French when I was in primary school but it was so long time ago, now I don't really speak it at all, but the expression seemed familiar so I googled it; in my country there is same expression and it's also from a commercial:) that's why it's funny. I'm wondering if it's stolen from the French..

[lego 44,165]

Dutch nonagenarian returns Righteous Among the Nations medal after six relatives killed in Gaza

Henk Zanoli, who helped save a Jewish child from deportation to concentration camps, said holding on to the medal would be an 'insult to the family.'

A 91-year-old Dutch man who was declared a Righteous Among the Nations for saving a Jew during the German occupation on Thursday returned his medal and certificate because six of his relatives were killed by an Israeli bombing in the Gaza Strip last month.

In 2011, the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum declared Henk Zanoli and his late mother, Johana Zanoli-Smit, Righteous Among the Nations for having saved a Jewish child, Elhanan Pinto, during the Nazi occupation of Holland. Pinto, born in 1932, was hidden by the Zanoli family from the spring of 1943 until the Allies liberated Holland in 1945. His parents perished in Nazi death camps.

In hiding a Jewish child, the Zanoli family took a double risk, because it was already under Nazi scrutiny for having opposed the German occupation. Zanoli’s father was sent to the Dachau concentration camp in 1941 due to his opposition to the occupation, and he subsequently died at the Mauthausen concentration camp in February 1945. Henk Zanoli’s brother-in-law was executed because of his involvement in the Dutch resistance, and one of his brothers had a Jewish fiancée, who was also killed by the Nazis.

Zanoli’s great-niece, Angelique Eijpe, is a Dutch diplomat who currently serves as deputy head of her country’s diplomatic mission in Oman. Her husband, economist Isma’il Ziadah, was born in the al-Bureij refugee camp in central Gaza. The couple has three children. Ziadah’s parents were born in Fallujah, on whose lands the town of Kiryat Gat now sits. His father died in 1987.

On Sunday, July 20, an Israeli fighter jet dropped a bomb on the Ziadah family’s home in al-Bureij. The bomb killed the family matriarch, Muftiyah, 70; three of her sons, Jamil, Omar and Youssef; Jamil’s wife, Bayan; and their 12-year-old son, Shaaban. The bombing thus orphaned Jamal and Bayan’s other five children, four daughters and a son, while bereaving Omar’s two sons and Youssef’s three sons and a daughter of their fathers. The bombing also killed Mohammed Maqadmeh, who happened to be visiting the family that day.

Zanoli, an attorney by profession, heard about the killing of the Ziadah family from his niece. As a way of expressing his shock and pain, he decided to return the medal and certificate that were awarded to him and his mother (posthumously) as Righteous Among the Nations. Because of his age and poor health, he did not do so in person, but sent them by messenger to the Israeli Embassy in The Hague – the same place where he received them in an official ceremony three years ago.

In the accompanying letter, addressed to Ambassador Haim Davon, Zanoli began by describing the price his family paid for resisting the Nazis and their successful effort to save a Jewish child.

“Against this background it is particularly shocking and tragic that today, four generations on, our family is faced with the murder of our kin in Gaza. Murder carried out by the State of Israel,†he wrote.

“The great- great grandchildren of my mother have lost their [Palestinian] grandmother, three uncles, an aunt and a cousin at the hands of the Israeli army ... For me to hold on to the honour granted by the State of Israel, under these circumstances, will be both an insult to the memory of my courageous mother who risked her life and that of her children fighting against suppression and for the preservation of human life as well as an insult to those in my family, four generations on, who lost no less than six of their relatives in Gaza at the hands of the State of Israel.â€

Noting that Israel’s actions in Gaza “have already resulted in serious accusations of war crimes and crimes against humanity,†he continued, “as a retired lawyer it would be no surprise to me that these accusations could lead to possible convictions if true and unpoliticized justice is able to have its course. What happened to our kin in Gaza will no doubt be brought to the table at such a time as well.â€

The Israel Defense Forces Spokesperson’s Unit did not answer Haaretz’s questions as to whether the Ziadah home was bombed by mistake, or if not, who in the house was a target and whether the IDF’s legal department considers the death of six civilians to be legitimate collateral damage. Its response said merely that the IDF invests great efforts in trying to avoid civilian casualties, is currently working to investigate all allegations of irregular incidents and will publish its conclusions after this investigation is completed.

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.610682?v=C7B8E31B6F0E22AA9C6A4570D927D49C