Beyoncé, Gaga, Madonna, Prince and the Gendered Use of the Word ‘Genius'

[jojuun 4,159]

I came across this very interesting article about the gendered use of the word "genius". While Madonna is the only major OG 80's pop star left (sorry, Cyndi isn't a globally dominant artist anymore and Janet & Mariah peaked in the Nineties) she doesn't enjoy the same status Bowie, Prince and Michael do. Is it because she's still alive and pushing the envelope in regards of sexuality, ageism, racism and homophobia? Or must she simply die before enjoying the status she deserves for single-handedly setting the blue print for major pop culture domination as a woman? 




Here's the article:

I, like much of the country, watched #Lemonade this weekend. Beyoncé’s visual album is some next-level “take your pain and turn it into art” ****. I love how deep she goes, not only into her own pain, but how it connects to previous generations of women in her family, and to the pain of all Southern black women. It’s amazing. A thought occurred to me as I watched it that had more to do with the wider music industry, and the way in which women are received and talked about in it.

After the deaths of David Bowie and Prince, many have questioned whether there is anyone out there who would be their like again. Now, of course, each of these musicians was unique, and made indelible contributions to music, changing the face of it forever. But the word GENIUS is thrown about, and we act as though “music is dead.”

I think of women like Madonna, and I wonder how she’ll be hailed when she inevitably passes away. She’s arguably had as huge and as lasting an impact on music as either Bowie or Prince, and yet I wonder if they’ll be throwing the word GENIUS around. They’ll chalk her impact up to “good marketing,” or say she was a “savvy businesswoman” the way they do with all women who manage to succeed, never attributing it to anything like talent. Or, as if the only talent women are allowed to have is self-promotion (when we’re not criticizing them for seeking attention).

When Prince or Bowie played with gender or were sexually charged, they were pioneers. They were challenging. Prince could be a “Sexy MF,” while Madonna was expected to constantly apologize for being sexual. Now that she’s older, she doesn’t have to apologize, but she is expected to cover up and stop it already. I wonder if Madonna will be talked about the same way as Prince, or as Michael Jackson was. Will things like her artistic vision, her songwriting, her producing, her creativity, how she inspired and continues to inspire — will any of that matter?

I think of women like Beyoncé, and Lady Gaga, who have continually pushed boundaries, reinvented themselves, and made substantive statements through their art from a fiercely feminist perspective. Who yes, were heavily influenced by the likes of Bowie and Prince, as so many others were, because of the unchangeable fact that they happened to be born after these two giants. The way that Bowie and Prince were themselves inspired by those before them. They nonetheless made their statements their own, and bring substance to popular music in a way that others don’t.

 

I think of women like Taylor Swift, who has always written her own songs, plays multiple instruments, writes and produces for other artists, and owns her own independent record label because she, like Prince, will not be the music industry’s slave.

The word GENIUS is used arbitrarily, even with regard to men, and art is subjective. What means GENIUS to one person might not be GENIUS to someone else. Yet it seems to be more readily accepted as fact when it’s applied to a man. Fusion has a great article about how, in the social media discussion of Lemonade, as well as of Beyoncé’s previous Grammy wins, the “criteria” for GENIUS seems to be “doing it all yourself.” As if any of the men we label GENIUSES did anything completely on their own.

So, to many people, Beyoncé isn’t a GENIUS, because she collaborated with other songwriters on Lemonade, whereas Prince is credited as having written most of his songs himself. Leaving aside the fact that the people credited with writing a song has more to do with agents, lawyers, perception, clout and who gets paid royalties than it does with actual contributions, Prince collaborated plenty, and that didn’t reduce his GENIUS. As Kelsey McKinney writes at Fusion:

"In other words, sole authorship is the hallmark of a true genius. This argument may sound familiar. American mythology is littered with the names of men who acted alone. Paul Revere singlehandedly blazed a trail for the future of the country. We love the myth that Steve Jobs, unassisted, built a technology empire in his dorm room. But myths are exactly what these reductive stories are.

Throughout the history of art, innovation has rarely come about in a vacuum. Imagine the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel as a work in progress. What do you see in your mind’s eye? Is it Michelangelo lying on a raised platform, toiling long and lonely hours into the night? Because that’s wrong. That masterpiece of Western art was completed by Michelangelo and his 13 assistants. Was he the mastermind, the visionary? Absolutely. But he didn’t work alone.

[…]

Collaboration breeds creativity, and no one can claim that Lemonade isn’t a creative album. Unlike so many pop songs by so many artists that sound so similar to one another, Lemonade is filled with songs that no one else could have made, from the country twang of “Daddy Issues” to the synthed-up “Sorry.”
[…]

 

We know that the music industry doesn’t take kindly to young, beautiful women who dare to be talented. Is it possible that even someone at Beyoncé’s level, or Madonna’s, is fought harder with regard to things like credit on a song, whereas a male artist might be seen more as the creative force, or the “architect” of an album and have that position more readily respected? It’s not an unreasonable question.

When people ask about the future of music, or about “who we’ll remember” the way we remember Bowie, or Prince, or Jackson; when people lament the fact that there aren’t any “real stars” anymore, that there aren’t any GENIUSES out there, I wonder if they and I are living in the same universe.

Because in my universe, I know that Gaga has been playing piano since she was four, got accepted to Julliard when she was eleven, left NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts when she got a songwriting deal with Interscope, and spent years writing for other artists before she started making a name for herself. I know that Beyoncé has been performing since she was eight, has the voice of an angel, a creative mind, and has grown into a thoughtful, political artist who strives to use her enormous platform to improve the lives of black women. I know that Taylor Swift convinced her parents to move her from Pennsylvania to Nashville to pursue a country music career at fourteen, and she’s become an independent producer big enough to be able to turn tides in the music industry by writing letters to Apple, all on the strength of her songwriting.

I know women like Rhianna. Like Janelle Monae. Like Tori Amos. Like Amanda Palmer….

And I wonder…is music made by women taken as seriously? When we say there’s “no one” out now that we predict will have this kind of impact, do wereally mean “no male artists?” Because I’ll be damned if Beyoncé and Lady Gaga don’t come close as far as musical talent, creativity, or impact on a generation. Female artists across all disciplines are just…talked aboutdifferently. They’re not “successful,” they’re “good at marketing.” They’re not “talented,” they’re “popular,” as if the two are mutually exclusive. They certainly weren’t exclusive for Prince. Or for Bowie.
 

Are they taken less seriously especially when they choose a more pop music sound? Does genre make them inherently “less-than?” Is it because women are expected to talk about their feelings all the time? So…it’s not seen as GENIUS, because that’s just what women do? Go on and on about their feelings? And the things they write songs about just aren’t “as important?” Them writing through the prism of their own experience is trivial?

There are so many parallels between the careers of men like Bowie, Prince, and Jackson, and women like Madonna, Beyoncé, and Gaga: precocious, versatile young musicians (multi-hyphenates, really) who experiment with a number of genres and grow up to change their industry, as well as the wider culture. Yet, it seems as though whenever men do things like challenge gender roles and norms, express their deepest emotions, or are even simply just amazing musicians, they’re applauded in a way that women just…aren’t. Whereas when women talk about gender through the prism of their own experience, play multiple instruments, write their own songs, run their own careers…*crickets*

Not *crickets* exactly. Obviously Madonna and Beyoncé and Lady Gaga are all super-famous. Guaranteed, when Madonna dies, it’ll be all over the news. But I have the nagging feeling that the way she’ll be talked about will be different, because she’s female. And I genuinely don’t understand why.

And it isn’t just about “who’s coming next.” It’s about who’s already been. Think about the past, oh I don’t know, 50 years of music. Think about the artists to whom you’d apply the word GENIUS. How many of them are women? How many of them are men? What criteria are you going by, and why do you think that is?

I wish the word GENIUS weren’t gendered. It isn’t, theoretically. In practice? That’s another story.

And incidentally, Kesha got a 1500 (out of 1600) on her SATs and reportedly has a 140 I.Q. So, you could call her a GENIUS, and it would not be wrong, or subjective.

Source: http://www.themarysue.com/can-women-be-music-geniuses/

 
 


Discuss sistren... 

[Sizzily 14,543]

Oh god, not EDIT: THE WEBSITE "THEMARYSUE" 

[jojuun 4,159]

1 minute ago, Sizzily said:

Oh god, not that SJW mess  

Girl bye. I am allowed to post a thread about whatever I want and this is a very interesting article that brings up very, very good points. And what the hell is "SJW" about it? Are you denying sexism in pop culture? In the music industry? In our society? Because that's not some SJW Tumblr sh*t, that's just a fact. Whenever there's a discussion about an issue in our society, people on the internet are so quick to say "SJW! Whatever! Bye! No1Curr" when maybe, you should start to care a bit more. Judging from your Instagram you are a privileged Caucasian Western male. It's so easy for you to say "Oh whatever! SJW!" because you are not a woman, not someone of color and even if you were gay, you are still the sex and the ethnicity that enjoys the favourable treatment in our society. So it's so easy and inconsiderate (some would say ignorant) for you to call anything "SJW" because you are not in a position to understand the struggles others may face. If you were to get beat up for having all those crazy hair colors I see on your Instagram and you make a post on how you feel picked upon by society for being who you are, would you understand it if I post "not this SJW gay mess" in that thread?

I cannot deal with some SJW's on Tumblr either, those people that are against fringe skirts and dreads because it's "cultural appropriation", but women being denied status, even as pop stars, is NOT some blown-up SJW stuff. It's real. And I kindly would like to ask you to get out of my thread unless you have something else to contribute than "SJW!!!! SJW!!!!!". Have a seat.

[AlexanderLevi2 5,849]

13 minutes ago, Sizzily said:

Oh god, not that SJW mess  

But it's not. And just because it speaks about feminism and sexism, you shouldn't throw it to the side as if it's pointless. It's an important perspective.

I ****ing hate people who call out the "SJW." It's like telling someone "there's the race/gay/religion card." 

[jojuun 4,159]

Just now, AlexanderLevi2 said:

But it's not. And just because it speaks about feminism and sexism, you shouldn't throw it to the side as if it's pointless. It's an important perspective.

I ****ing hate people who call out the "SJW." It's like telling someone "there's the race/gay/religion card." 

[Sizzily 14,543]

12 minutes ago, jojuun said:

Girl bye. I am allowed to post a thread about whatever I want and this is a very interesting article that brings up very, very good points. And what the hell is "SJW" about it? Are you denying sexism in pop culture? In the music industry? In our society? Because that's not some SJW Tumblr sh*t, that's just a fact. Whenever there's a discussion about an issue in our society, people on the internet are so quick to say "SJW! Whatever! Bye! No1Curr" when maybe, you should start to care a bit more. Judging from your Instagram you are a privileged Caucasian Western male. It's so easy for you to say "Oh whatever! SJW!" because you are not a woman, not someone of color and even if you were gay, you are still the sex and the ethnicity that enjoys the favourable treatment in our society. So it's so easy and inconsiderate (some would say ignorant) for you to call anything "SJW" because you are not in a position to understand the struggles others may face. If you were to get beat up for having all those crazy hair colors I see on your Instagram and you make a post on how you feel picked upon by society for being who you are, would you understand it if I post "not this SJW gay mess" in that thread?

I cannot deal with some SJW's on Tumblr either, those people that are against fringe skirts and dreads because it's "cultural appropriation", but women being denied status, even as pop stars, is NOT some blown-up SJW stuff. It's real. And I kindly would like to ask you to get out of my thread unless you have something else to contribute than "SJW!!!! SJW!!!!!". Have a seat.

The website I mean. Yeah, there are good points but TheMarySue is just  

And going on my Instagram to see what race I am so you can guilt me for being white? Girl, bye. And my hair color? You're on some next level sh*t, sweetie. I don't have the f**king time.

You might need one of these.

[jojuun 4,159]

Just now, Sizzily said:

The website I mean. Yeah, there are good points but TheMarySue is just  

I clicked on this article because it was posted on a Madonna forum. I have no idea what that publication features other than this article. Regardless, it's a good article and you could have clarified that better in your first post instead of just posting "SJW mess "...

[Duella Dvil 10,183]

2 minutes ago, Sizzily said:

The website I mean. Yeah, there are good points but TheMarySue is just  

I'd edit and clarify just to avoid further draggings.

I'm sad... I wanted to use my gif....

[PunkTheFunk 121,511]

I agree that we're less likely to call female musicians 'geniuses' because of sexism but you can't use Rihanna and Madonna and Bey as your arguments that female musical genius exists...

Kate Bush and Bjork, for example, are comparable to Prince and David Bowie imo.

13 minutes ago, jojuun said:

Unlike so many pop songs by so many artists that sound so similar to one another, Lemonade is filled with songs that no one else could have made, from the country twang of “Daddy Issues” to the synthed-up “Sorry.”

What Little Beyhivester wrote this mess 

[Iwontell 7,312]

There's a lot of truth to that...

I mean, Madonna, who's been around since the 80s and has definitely had a more profound impact in the world than Prince - who's a genius also, I'm not trying to put him down -, doesn't get the same credit...

And the same goes for younger artists...Bruno Mars, Justin Timberlake, Ed Sheeran, even Justin Bieber are way more immune to criticism and generally praised than their female counterparts, who do basically the same thing...it's as if it was shameful to enjoy music that was created or performed by a woman...

[LUO YI 6,089]

Tell the truth 

Madhe is a genius. She made everything by herself from the start and followed what she wanted to do no matter the consequences. She's a rebel heart.

[mmm 879]

Just now, jojuun said:

Girl bye. I am allowed to post a thread about whatever I want and this is a very interesting article that brings up very, very good points. And what the hell is "SJW" about it? Are you denying sexism in pop culture? In the music industry? In our society? Because that's not some SJW Tumblr sh*t, that's just a fact. Whenever there's a discussion about an issue in our society, people on the internet are so quick to say "SJW! Whatever! Bye! No1Curr" when maybe, you should start to care a bit more. Judging from your Instagram you are a privileged Caucasian Western male. It's so easy for you to say "Oh whatever! SJW!" because you are not a woman, not someone of color and even if you were gay, you are still the sex and the ethnicity that enjoys the favourable treatment in our society. So it's so easy and inconsiderate (some would say ignorant) for you to call anything "SJW" because you are not in a position to understand the struggles others may face. If you were to get beat up for having all those crazy hair colors I see on your Instagram and you make a post on how you feel picked upon by society for being who you are, would you understand it if I post "not this SJW gay mess" in that thread?

I cannot deal with some SJW's on Tumblr either, those people that are against fringe skirts and dreads because it's "cultural appropriation", but women being denied status, even as pop stars, is NOT some blown-up SJW stuff. It's real. And I kindly would like to ask you to get out of my thread unless you have something else to contribute than "SJW!!!! SJW!!!!!". Have a seat.

Im a Arab, Muslim and Gay and I hate SJW.. it was nothing to do with being white and male.. stop judging people based on their skin color.

[mmm 879]

Just now, Sizzily said:

The website I mean. Yeah, there are good points but TheMarySue is just  

And going on my Instagram to see what race I am so you can guilt me for being white? Girl, bye. And my hair color? You're on some next level sh*t, sweetie. I don't have the f**king time.

stop whitesplaining

[jojuun 4,159]

58 minutes ago, PunkTheFunk said:

I agree that we're less likely to call female musicians 'geniuses' because of sexism but you can't use Rihanna and Madonna and Bey as your arguments that female musical genius exists...

Kate Bush and Bjork, for example, are comparable to Prince and David Bowie imo.

I strongly disagree.

You are clearly talking about sonical, musical "genius" instead of the pop culture genius this article is talking about. Are Bowie and Prince genius music wise? Absolutely. But arguably, Prince and Bowie "only" had a few worldwide hits everyone knows. Most people remember Purple Rain, Sexy MF'er, Kiss, Heroes, China Girl and Let's Dance and the fact both men played with sexuality, gender, fashion and make-up. THAT is what this article is about. They are hailed and praised because of the IMPACT they had with their hits and overall appearance, not the fact Prince and Bowie made sonically interesting albums. None of their last work even charted before their death, which is proof in the pudding that the major public did not care about their musical quality as much as the impact they had on our current society by experimenting with gender and sexuality earlier in their careers. Madonna and Beyonce (recently) have done the exact same thing. Rihanna is indeed not a good example. She's doing her thing but she is not pushing anything other than herself. She's edgy look-wise but it doesn't stand for much in regards to her music. But she's making progress with her entire nipple-campaign she's having at the moment. 

And Björk and Kate Bush are absolutely both musical geniuses but they did not have the cultural impact Madonna had or Beyoncé is having right now, simply because they are not major-label pop artists that make music for the masses. And arguably, Ray of Light is a very, very off-beat pop new-wave electronic record that is up there with the musical genius of let's say Björk. Just because Madonna has chosen to go back to commercial-driven (some would say "generic") pop music with her last few albums doesn't mean she hasn't released sonically interesting music.

Björk and Kate Bush didn't influence the broader audiences. It's simply a fact.

[Sizzily 14,543]

8 minutes ago, faysalaaa1 said:

stop whitesplaining

kek