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Ukraine-Russia Crisis Discussion (Post all related news here)


Melech

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bumblebee

It doesn't matter that they're pro-Russian or whatever, it's Putin that is sending in the military. And Crimea is legally part of the Ukraine and not Russia's and Putin has no legal right to send in troops. The Western do not demand eu partnership, they demand that the Ukrainians be free to choose and not live in fear that anything Putin doesn't like he can send in his soldiers.

Well then tell it to Putin to talk inside of swooping in guns ablazing.

 

It actually matters a lot. The eastern regions are supporting the fact Putin is sending troops despite the fact he is breaking the rules of international law. The logical question is : wha the f*ck is going on in the country if half of it is happy with the fact it is invaded by Putin military troops? 

 

The sad truth is that the newly formed government doesn't represent the free opinion of the citizens. It's a coalliton of pro-western politicians who don't care that half of the population in the east of the country don't acknowledge their power at all. And the way the new government established its power was as well controversial.  

 

I hope I'll sound friendly because I truly mean to be.

Here is a link http://en.wikipedia....ki/Right_Sector

This is an organization which sent hundreds if not thousands of its people to the protests in Kiev. They are an outright neo-fascist young people who were described as peaceful protesters. What I mean to say that there's a very strange way media portrayed the situation in Kiev.

You obviously saw the pictures of old men and women crying at the square, but who do you think the police then was fighting for several weeks? It would take them just a couple of days to get rid of the protesters if they were truly peaceful.

I've got a friend Irina who lives in Kiev. They moved away a couple of weeks ago as the situation was getting out of hand. According to her, there was truly a peaceful protest after the President decided to postpone the agreement with EU. A couple of days after that, hundreds of people from The Right Sector started to arrive at the square. They are well-armed and well-trained young people who share borderline fascist views and think Ukraine should get rid of people who are russian by nationality by any means. The police tried to get those Right Sector fighters out of the square, but they started to use guns and weapons. The police initially was not given any weapons at all.

After several policemen were killed with guns, police was given weapons as well and was ordered to "clean" the square from the Right Sector fighters. But the number of the members of Right Sector at the square already almost surpassed the number of policemen. In the bloody fights there were victims from both sides.

In the media it was portrayed as the government killing their own people. In fact, the situation was slightly different. As I know, the neo fascist movements are not encouraged anywhere in the world, and especially in the EU.

By the way, do you know the name of the political party which initiated this revolution? It is led by mr. Klichko and called "STRIKE". A peaceful name indeed.

I am in no way supporting the military invasion, but I want people to be more critical of any information they get, because there're big political games going on there. The protesters in Kiev were not hippies. Together with people who carried peaceful intentions, there were armed and well trained extremists, who, by the way, have recently sent an official request to terrorist who is responsible for December bombings in Russia  :toofloppy:

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Janet

It doesn't matter that they're pro-Russian or whatever, it's Putin that is sending in the military. And Crimea is legally part of the Ukraine and not Russia's and Putin has no legal right to send in troops. The Western do not demand eu partnership, they demand that the Ukrainians be free to choose and not live in fear that anything Putin doesn't like he can send in his soldiers.

Well then tell it to Putin to talk inside of swooping in guns ablazing.

 

But it is technically only part of Ukraine due to the wishes of the Soviet Union. Crimea was transferred from Russia to Ukraine in 1954 by Nikita Khrushchev, and as was stated before, is ethnically Russian due to population manipulation that the Soviets were famed for. Ethnic Ukrainians only make up about 24% of the Crimean population, whereas Russians represent about 50-60%. 

 

Don't think that I am defending what the Russians are doing, as I really oppose any escalation of this situation (and sending in troops without any clear-cut declaration of intent is really the zenith of escalation). Like the rest of the sane world, I cannot stand Putin or his regime. However, it is far more complicated than it appears to be from headlines that dominate newspapers. It is an issue that was started in 1954 with the transference of Crimea to Ukraine, and has been snowballing ever since. It's amess of a situation.

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Janet

Guys why the long essays of talking about this? I want to read but this is way to much  :toofunny:

This isn't really an issue that can be summed up in bullet points, unfortunately 

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does anyone remember the last time a country went into another to "save the majority of their lingual speakers"?

 

russiamain-461770.jpg

 

 

(looks like the express have already stole my idea, but that pic on the right is hitler invading the Sudetenland area of Czechoslovakia)

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MonsterMarty

Misread post - whoops!
 

 

Anyhow:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxyISsA0Oh0

 

When on the verge of war, play some Beatles.

Edited by MonsterMarty
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MonsterMarty

Just a thought.  I've been reading a bit on this and it seems that the Ukrainians that are siding with Russia are already from Russian descent.  It's just that they now live in the Ukraine.  Do they want the two countries to merge?  Why don't they just return to Russia if they aren't happy where they are?  Can someone simplify this?

 

That's like saying can't Loyalists in Northern Ireland just go back to Great Britain if they want to be British. They want to live in Ukraine but be part of the Russian Federation/Empire.

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MonsterMarty

This is exactly what needs to happen. This is diplomacy - if Russia doesn't play by the rules then the West and beyond should rescind ties and see how long they last. Of course seeing as they're sending thousands of ground troops into Ukraine it's unlikely to be this smooth a retaliation in the long run.

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Economy

:applause:

 

 

 

Economic isolation seems interesting, although my country's crisis would be bad - 5,4% of our export goes to Russia :ohno: and 5,1% of our gas comes from Russia. It could be way worse in other countries though, most of East-Europe and Central-Europe has over 40% of their gas from Russia. Sweden, Finland, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania 100%.

Russia is the worlds 2nd or 3rd largest producer of oil. Get ready for spiked prices :coffee:

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ZacharyMark

That's like saying can't Loyalists in Northern Ireland just go back to Great Britain if they want to be British. They want to live in Ukraine but be part of the Russian Federation/Empire.

Well exactly.  It can't happen.  But it's completely confusing.  Ukraine is a separate state since the break up of the Soviet Union, but why cause all of this chaos when you can go to Russia?  Sort of like your example.  It's like if I were to live in America, hate it, and want it to be part of Canada.  ??

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