When Gaga says "free her, free yourself..."

[giskardsb 12,565]

I love her message, and many fans love her message. But there are definitely a bunch of fans who are treating Gaga like a drive-thru, and they are screaming "I didn't order a ***** message! I ordered a VIDEO! Where is my VIDEO!!"

 

 

 

I love that a--logy. So true.

 

"I didn't order DJWS!  I wanted RedOne!  I don't care if RedOne isn't on the menu at the moment!"

 

and meeting her half way... yes.  Gaga is the type of artist that a person  may need to make an effort to understand.  I think ARTPOP still has a lot of songs that are enjoyable without much effort at all by anyone though.  With her layers and meanings she does reward you for digging deeper, which is what makes her one of the most intriguing artists working in a pop culture framework.  And she always has album tracks that will be most appreciated by fans who are willing to stretch their boundaries a bit.

 

I admire Gaga precisely because I never really know what to expect, and she always finds ways to make me think.  Thats all I ask of any artist.

[djBuffoon 11,638]

I don't think I'm smarter than her, Gaga is a yoga aficionado, a lot of those concepts would have been introduced to her through that. Plus from Marina I'm sure.  The concepts aren't strictly "eastern" either, although eastern philosophy uses it as a  base whereas western systems tend to actively promote the idea that the "intellect" is the all important facet of humans.

 

I think she played the game she did in order to get to the point where she could stop playing the game.  If that makes any sense.  And I think that was her plan all along.

 

Very fascinating, as is your original post. I know that some people think she sounds stoned or drunk or whatever, but I actually believe she is very happy right now and making progress with situations that were completely out of her control. Going off what you said, it seems to me that she's in a secure spiritual place.

 

 

I just wish she would stop making the connection between her and her fans. "We are the same." I don't understand that and how that is supposed to stimulate an individual, free experience of art and life. I mean, we all know the first thing Gaga fans reply to a post like that is: "OMG GAGA I LOVE YOU YOU WILL ALWAYS BE MY LOVE" I mean, her fans aren't smart enough, sorry, I just said it

If even one person "gets it", like you or myself, it's worth of bunch of others not quite getting it.

[Wet Fire 5,676]

Wow!

[Mythos 3,196]

I don't know whats happening right now with her and the fanbase, but text like this just make me feel so awkward, like we are a cult...

 

[Celina 118]

You are offering advice on how she could better execute YOUR artistic ideas.   But unless your ideas and hers are in completely synchronicity, there is little to be gained from her listening to that advice.  There is no reason to believe that her artistic ideas would have been better articulated via "professionals" or other producers.  What is true for sure is that the art would be completely different.  She collaborates with her producers and they feed off each other.  ARTPOP would be a completely different album with different producers.   Now, it might be an album that some people like better, while others would like it worse. But there is no reason to believe that it would have been a better representation of Gaga's ideas if she used different people.  If she thought she needed different people to go where she wanted, she would have used them.  

 

All critique comes from a  frame of reference.  You have your frame of reference that you think would have improved Gaga's art.  I have mine.  Critics and bloggers have theirs.   Many fans constantly bring up the standards that are considered normal for pop music and their "critique" for Gaga is that she should be closer to that.   But Gaga has her own frame of reference, and all she's asking is that she be allowed to set her own frame of reference apart from other conflicting frames.

 

When it comes to critique, she should completely ignore critique that is from a frame of reference that she doesn't agree with.  And she should listen to critique from people who share her frame of reference.  Only Gaga actually knows where that line is.

 

Brilliant. Everything about this post is just brilliant.

 

 

 

Or maybe she really means it. People keep wishing BTW or her personality at that time would have never happened but what they forget is that that album and attitude saved lives. Not even just a figure of speech, people have legitimately come out saying that it stopped them from killing themselves. Imo that's more important than how many albums she can sell or how much she can act like a boss ass b---h.

 

Agreed. It surprises me that even some fans are so cynical and negative toward that attitude/album/etc., when it's clear how genuinely she believes in it and how many lives it has changed. I mean, it's fine to dislike it or to not identify with it, but when people imply that she did it for her own personal gain or disregard the fans it has helped, that kind of rubs me the wrong way.

[Shadow 6,039]

The thing is most people will not go through the effort of liking a song or music video if it requires them to go into depth to understand it. It's just a song to them and that's why they opt for the carefree tunes from other artists.

I think ever since Alejandro, when she added her bitter jelly, is when her music stopped being carefree and thus turned people off. Because before her music didn't have a message, it was just fun and it had a beat to dance to. Weren't fans then free to begin with at that point, escaping to the music?

Free yourself? The scope of freedom is to agree to disagree. That is real freedom. If everyone agreed to art and tastes, would there be so much of it to choose from? Even Gaga references many artists. However, I wonder if there are any she dislikes for any reason. Is she not free to do that? I guess all we can do is free ourselves from worrying about her or trying to control her content. Remember, we are always free to seek the content we like without trying.

[Sara 1,128]

Free yourself? The scope of freedom is to agree to disagree. That is real freedom. If everyone agreed to art and tastes, would there be so much of it to choose from? Even Gaga references many artists. However, I wonder if there are any she dislikes for any reason. Is she not free to do that? I guess all we can do is free ourselves from worrying about her or trying to control her content. Remember, we are always free to seek the content we like without trying.

 

I see the disrespect and hate on the internet as a real problem, and it has even spread into the media and into critics.  Critics who give reasonable critiques of something just aren't as "entertaining" as those who will drag a celebrity to hell and back, and so the nasty critics are winning.  Most people don't want an honest "review" anymore.  They want either a miraculous story of human triumph, or they want blood.  Anything else is boring.  

 

There aren't as many critics giving honest reviews of her material as there are critics desperately looking for a tragedy or failure angle to exploit for entertainment. 

 

That is what the real problem is, and that's what Gaga has been complaining about.

 

However, many people have interpreted this as Gaga saying she doesn't want people to disagree.  She has never said that.  It's #promoteonlinekindness, not #promoteonlineagreement.  She's said she doesn't mind criticism, so long as it is constructive. 

 

There is nothing in "T.H.I.N.K." that says "Is it disagreeing?" 

 

I think we are having a big argument over nothing because many people think this is some kind of call to stop disagreeing with each other.  I have no idea where they are getting that from, other that a natural resistance against anyone who says "watch what you say", even if they have a good reason to say that. 

 

I hear one side screaming "Stop being so hateful!" and the other side screaming "Stop telling me what to think!" and I don't think the two sides are realizing they aren't talking about the same thing.

[Raikou 1,169]

This is magnificently written, thank you.

[Shadow 6,039]

I see the disrespect and hate on the internet as a real problem, and it has even spread into the media and into critics. Critics who give reasonable critiques of something just aren't as "entertaining" as those who will drag a celebrity to hell and back, and so the nasty critics are winning. Most people don't want an honest "review" anymore. They want either a miraculous story of human triumph, or they want blood. Anything else is boring.

There aren't as many critics giving honest reviews of her material as there are critics desperately looking for a tragedy or failure angle to exploit for entertainment.

That is what the real problem is, and that's what Gaga has been complaining about.

However, many people have interpreted this as Gaga saying she doesn't want people to disagree. She has never said that. It's #promoteonlinekindness, not #promoteonlineagreement. She's said she doesn't mind criticism, so long as it is constructive.

I think we are having a big argument over nothing because many people think this is some kind of call to stop disagreeing with each other. I have no idea where they are getting that from, other that a natural resistance against anyone who says "watch what you say", even if they have a good reason to say that.

I hear one side screaming "Stop being so hateful!" and the other side screaming "Stop telling me what to think!" and I don't think the two sides are realizing they aren't talking about the same thing.

I'm coming at this from a neutral point of view.

I'm against the hate and bullying as you mentioned. It's a sad part of human nature that has been around since Romans gave gladiators the thumbs up or down. It gives people a false sense of power to make judgments like that.

I think there needs to be a balance between free thought and common courtesy for anyone: the artist, the fan, the customer, and the supplier.

I think that a--logy in comparing this to drive thru fits in the sense, that fans see her work and if they don't like it feel entitled to circle around, go back inside, tell the artists they did it wrong and come back until they get what they ordered.

Art isn't your usual commodity where you can go back to specific standards. What you see is what you get from the artist. We can't go back and ask Michaelanglo to paint better paintings or murals. Not only has he long sinced passed on, but his work took time and precision that only he could administer since it was HIS vision.

The same with Gaga. You cannot rush her art just like you can't rush order a Sistine Chapel or ask for a version of your own. The freedom of speech is just that, but entitlement and judgment are forms of control which conflicts with that original freedom. I think that is the issue we're referring to.

[Ronk 14,067]

 hope the impatient fans become customers of some other drive-thru artist?

I hope the impatient fans come to realize Gaga is very much worth waiting for.  She is a wonderful person who has had some setbacks, but the future looks bright now that things are being worked out.  She deserves our understanding and support.

[Whispering 18,865]

The thing i've been saying since she started preaching about how she was bullied to attract insecure fans since the end of the MTB

 

So it's been going on for YEARS for you! You've been disgusted with her mission and message for four plus years now!?

 

Why are fans still here who have been complaining about Gaga and who they know she is for four years? TFM Gaga is not coming back. Those fans have now spent four years of their lives, hoping for something that was never going to happen, and IT NEVER WILL! Are they here just to try and make everyone else miserable?

 

There is a distinct difference between fans having some a few negative opinions on the current era and those fans who are overly negative about basically everything for the past two eras because they are wishing for the impossible to happen. Those fans are not only completely dissatisfied with Gaga's music and artistic direction, they are also disgusted with her message and with who she is as a person. They are angry that Gaga is not who and what THEY WANT HER TO BE and for some reason, they can't let go and move on. WHY?

[Ronk 14,067]

I hear one side screaming "Stop being so hateful!" and the other side screaming "Stop telling me what to think!" and I don't think the two sides are realizing they aren't talking about the same thing.

This.  One approach is for each of ask at the end of the day; did I show kindness today, did I lift someone up, or did I hurt someone and ruin their day?  If we stop and take stock of the true measure of ourselves, things will work out for the better.

[Whispering 18,865]

You are offering advice on how she could better execute YOUR artistic ideas.   But unless your ideas and hers are in completely synchronicity, there is little to be gained from her listening to that advice.  There is no reason to believe that her artistic ideas would have been better articulated via "professionals" or other producers.  What is true for sure is that the art would be completely different.  She collaborates with her producers and they feed off each other.  ARTPOP would be a completely different album with different producers.   Now, it might be an album that some people like better, while others would like it worse. But there is no reason to believe that it would have been a better representation of Gaga's ideas if she used different people.  If she thought she needed different people to go where she wanted, she would have used them.  

 

All critique comes from a  frame of reference.  You have your frame of reference that you think would have improved Gaga's art.  I have mine.  Critics and bloggers have theirs.   Many fans constantly bring up the standards that are considered normal for pop music and their "critique" for Gaga is that she should be closer to that.   But Gaga has her own frame of reference, and all she's asking is that she be allowed to set her own frame of reference apart from other conflicting frames.

 

When it comes to critique, she should completely ignore critique that is from a frame of reference that she doesn't agree with.  And she should listen to critique from people who share her frame of reference.  Only Gaga actually knows where that line is.

Thank you for the OP and for these thoughts, as well! Your comments are some of the best and I appreciate the time, effort and thought you put behing them!

[Sara 1,128]

You are offering advice on how she could better execute YOUR artistic ideas. 

 

This line alone sums up my biggest gripe with a lot of comments made about Gaga.  :)

 

[giskardsb 12,565]

I don't know whats happening right now with her and the fanbase, but text like this just make me feel so awkward, like we are a cult...

 

It's not "cultish" to try to explain what she means when clearly many people don't understand it.

 

This is where much of the conflict between Gaga and some Fans is coming from.  Frame of Reference.

 

For many fans their Frame of Reference is TF/TFM Gaga.  They prefer that version, and thats fine that they prefer it.  Gaga however is shifting her Frame of Reference all the time.  Now, it's perfectly ok that some fans have trouble with that, but many don't even give Gaga a chance any more.  Anything she does that doesn't fit their frame of reference they jump on her for it, even if they like other stuff she is doing.  All Gaga is asking for is people to respect her choices and what she wants to do with her career.  Fans can respect her without liking which direction she's going.  It's really not that hard to say "I like this part of what Gaga is doing and not this other part, so I'll concentrate on the stuff I like and not the stuff I don't. " 

 

It kind of boggles my mind actually that fans are willing to personally destroy their own fan experience simply because they aren't willing to let go of what they don't like and hold on to what they do.  People would rather poison their own wells and get more and more angry rather than simply enjoying what Gaga gives that they like and ignoring the rest.