18 years later and 16 Grammy's later.. were the comparisons to Madonna right?

[palma 8,675]

Gaga didn’t want to play the Madonna game after the BTW mess & ARTPOP derailing her mainstream chokehold. M is the blueprint (alongside Michael Jackson) for what defines a pop star so I don’t think the comparisons were too far fetched, at least up to that point. I don’t think she’s heavily influenced by her when it comes to music though, I hear more Whitney, MJ, Prince and Bowie. 

What really sets her apart from Madonna is that she’s just the purest angel. I love Madonna (my #2) but she can be a real tw*t.

To a degree they are still comparable though, for championing causes, their intense performance discipline and dance oriented music. That’s as far as it goes nowadays. Taylor is the real Madonna heir when it comes to the thirst to dominate and numbers, but with incredibly vanilla, BORING music and artistry.

[Stevo 672]

15 hours ago, rinasawachanta said:

Excellent question, it was about time someone asked it. This is something I find myself thinking about repeatedly because I feel that the media was very unfair in forcing this comparison. I think the only things they have in common are their origins (Italian-American) and a marked ambition from the very beginning of their careers that can be detected just by watching their performances (and that sets them apart from their peers).

Beyond that, everything about their personas, their style, their music, their references, their live performances, their personalities is COMPLETELY different.

Madonna is a good dancer who decided to pursue a music career without any real talent or training in that field. She is more sexual, tongue-in-cheek, shady, and I think she confuses iconicity with being an unattainable bitch. Likewise, in terms of style and references, I think she developed an interest in that “world peace” aesthetic, giving a lot of space in her shows to physical prowess (multiple dancers doing parkour, her doing squats or jumping rope live), things that personally don't speak to me. On the other hand, I recognize that she was very visionary at the time, and that she knew how to anticipate trends in sound and partner with producers who gave her solid, cohesive albums.

Gaga has been SOMETHING ELSE since the very beginning of her career: her references come from glam rock, song divas, jazz, musical theater, cinema, camp, and queer culture. It's a much more “nerdy” and academic approach to those “weird” interests. She's not an athlete performing a routine with no room for error. She is an artist with enormous vocal talent, enormous confidence on stage (unparalleled, I think), and immense creativity. A person who has always pursued a musical career and enjoys making her art. Someone who, literally, could not be anything other than an artist. And who, on the other hand, understands like no one else what it means to be an icon and the responsibilities associated with the place she occupies (her kindness, humility, openness to others, sensitivity, are aspects that we sometimes take for granted but that are absolutely atypical and that, together with her enormous talent and work, make her stand the test of time).

Most of what you say is true, but I think you're undermining Madonna's artistic side. She's always considered herself more of a "performance artist" than just a singer. I think reducing her to someone who does routines is a bit disingenuous and downplaying her as an artist. 

1. Madonna revolutionized pop concerts like dividing her shows into themed, theatrical "acts," blending music, dance, and drama rather than just playing songs sequentially. Madonna used her stage to address social, sexual, and religious themes, turning concerts into platforms for commentary (like she got excommunicated from the Catholic Church multiple times for this). Every pop star to this day including Gaga follow this formula. 

2. Madonna pioneered musical and visual reinvention by treating her image, fashion, and musical style as fluid, rejecting a single, static persona in favor of constant evolution. She had "Era's" before Taylor Swift even thought of that. Again, every pop star follows this formula (not saying she invented reinvention). 

She's also underrated as a songwriter, having written a lot of her hits like Like a Prayer and Vogue. She's heavily involved with what she creates (she's a self-professed control-freak). 

Madonna may not be musically gifted as Lady Gaga, but she's an artist that has things to say, and she does that through her music, fashion, and controversy. And we cannot deny that Gaga initially followed that formula too, but has since diverged into something different and more versatile. 

So I disagree with reducing Madonna down to an "athlete" or a "good dancer" that's just putting on a show. I think her attitude and behavior overshadows her legacy and herself as an artist, so I can see why you would think that way.


 

Edited February 5 by Stevo

[robotvoiceinalice 1,993]

well Madonna was jealous and thats why she made shady comments. she never copied Madonna 

[GerMonsterNotta 1,935]

I think what gets confused is that BTW took an 80s music influence, which of course encompasses Madonna but is not exclusive to just her…. In 2011 Madonna made the era all about her….. which was selfish and arrogant unfortunately … People are narrow minded and bite fast and they see a new blonde icon and it’s very easy to steer people’s prejudice perspectives and point a finger… it was actually disgusting behaviour, where I believe Madonna through it sassy, banter.. but no… it was bullying...  

Gaga has said herself she is a student to music and she loves experimenting and reimagining music inspirations and progressing them forward…. This is about good song writing and knowing your field…  she has mentioned herself her influences are very broad …. Even during her innovator artist award speech she mentions Madonna among a lot of other artists…. By studying others she’s merged and built her own amazing lane….. it’s sad that Madonna and the media had to trash her when she was on that journey… because really what did it achieve?

I believe this is one of Gagas insecurities …. And she really has spent the past 15 years pushing in so many directions to prove critics wrong …. It made her ill….. but NOW as time has passed she is leaning strongly back into Lady Gaga Mother Monster mode…. And we are seeing how her classic brand IS actually unique… ‘ah ha this sounds like bad romance…’ is not ‘this sounds like vogue / exp yourself….  
Gaga has truly reached a level where she herself can reference herself…. Its taken time and pain… but I really am hopeful she l has a real grounded perspective now with Michael….. She  really is that phoenix that doesn’t give up….
 

We are very fortunate that she is such a tough cookie to navigate all her careers ups and downs… because really the worse could have happened with her depression.. and how would Madonna felt then? Never forget to be kind guys…… 

Edited February 5 by GerMonsterNotta

[MOT 3,462]

18 hours ago, elsamars said:

I always say this, Gaga was on her own lane and she had a really strong individual image up until Alejandro music video. That music video changed her career trajection in a bad way. Not only did she collabarated with Madonna's long time collabarator/friend, she also heavily referenced Madonna's music videos (sexual catholic imagery was a cherry on the top). This sparked the Madonna conversation and Born This Way/Express Yourself was a nail on the coffin. I remember Twitter that day, the comparisons gain attraction naturally the day the song was released. Nevertheless, she worked so hard afterwards to steer away from this image. You can see this struggle in her music journey.

That's interesting. As a latecomer to Gaga (since 2019) I picked up on her discography in a jumbled up order rather than experiencing it chronologically as a longtime fan would. One of the few things I disliked was Alejandro which I thought was basically just like one of Madonna's more plodding efforts, and the video was obviously 100% Madonna. What I didn't pick up on was that Alejandro came before Born This Way and may have played a part in creating the Born This Way/Express Yourself controversy even though all the focus was on Born This Way.

[TheSine 6,403]

Gaga is Gaga. Madonna is Madonna.

There's always going to be similarities. It's a small world after all, especially in the pop realm where people love to pit stars against each other.

Edited February 5 by TheSine

[MOT 3,462]

I think there are a lot of similarities between the two in terms of career path - both individual female artists, as opposed to fronting a band, taking it by syorm, with a heavy emphasis on the sexual, advocating for lgbtq rights, branching into movie acting, gradually maturing into entertainment industry royalty.

As people though, they are quite different I think. Yes they are both ambitious, driven,hardworking, with a good head for business, but ... Gaga has mental health issues, insecurities, vulnerabilities, which I don't think Madonna has. Gaga is a bit batty and scatty (in an appealing way) whereas Madonna is more like the female equivalent of an alpha male.   

[elsamars 7,127]

5 hours ago, GerMonsterNotta said:

. In 2011 Madonna made the era all about her…..

I think you're confusing the timeline, she didn't make a single comment till 2012

Feb 11 2011 - born this way song released, twitter exploded with EY comparisons, major music publications released articles about comparisons

Feb 13 2011 - Gaga thanked Whitney Houston for the inspiration for Born this Way song 

Feb 15 2011 - Gaga said she emailed Madonna about the song got approval from her 

Feb 16 2011 - Madonna’s publicist said they did not receive or send any email to Gaga

Jan 2012 - Madonna’s reductive comment 

Edited February 5 by elsamars

[StrawberryBlond 15,208]

You can definitely see Madonna inspiration in her early years but after BTW, a switch flipped and she realised she had to find a whole new identity and nothing since then has sounded or even really looked like anything Madonna did. And this is when her biggest inspirations really came through and they were mostly all male - Freddie, Bowie, MJ, Prince. There's a reason why no one makes Madonna comparisons anymore. I'm so proud that she developed her talent and vision so that she blasted past surface level perceptions and is testament to how talented she is.