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Macron suggested Ukraine give up some of its sovereignty


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Guillaume Hamon
2 hours ago, Benji said:

Macron’s a mess, what’s new :haroon:

I feel for the French people who had to choose between him and Trump in drag.

Tbh I don't believe Lepen was as terrible as Trump...

6 hours ago, Nathan said:

Wowie, he is garbage.. this ain’t new. I’m not shocked he would suggest something so stupid. 
 

All he wanted was to be the guy who managed to negotiate the end of the way for his own ego. He doesn’t care about the people at all.

Macron's awful... When folks who don't live in France here said his reelection was France being saved I was like: :lolga:

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We discuss general news all the time here??? Not like our discussions on here are gonna impact anything positively or negatively  

Wowie, he is garbage.. this ain’t new. I’m not shocked he would suggest something so stupid.    All he wanted was to be the guy who managed to negotiate the end of the way for his own ego. He d

Sure. Lets bring this discussion to GGD which isn‘t known for being highly messy at all… what should go wrong? 

RAMROD
9 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Tbh I don't believe Lepen was as terrible as Trump...

 


Lots people here believed Trump isn't that bad either back then. Even with all the rhetorics he already spewed during his campaign. Most people still wanted him over Hillary. Until the terrible things actually happened. 

(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ✧*:・゚ paradise lost (*´艸`*) ♡♡♡
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Guillaume Hamon
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, RAMROD said:


Lots people here believed Trump isn't that bad either back then. Even with all the rhetorics he already spewed during his campaign. Most people still wanted him over Hillary. Until the terrible things actually happened. 

But the things Trump said in his first presidential campaign right after joining the political world were worst than what Lepen said in 20 years as a politician no? I mean saying a whole nation ( Mexico ) is made of rapists or that there should be a punishment for women having abortion for example.

And Macron making it super expensive to come study in France for non-europeans while reducing by half the number of visas given to Moroccans and Algerians ( the 2 biggest non-whites migration groups coming to France ) was... The most optimal way to make France whiter no? That's why I doubt he was saving us from a racist state while many french medias showed as the anti fascist solution/ savior.

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YourEvilTwin

If he merely suggested this as an option in conversation, I don't see the problem with it. Why wouldn't you run through all possible scenarios in a situation as serious as this?

And let's be honest, the biggest hurdle between war and peace at this point is Putin's ego. Hardly an unreasonable suggestion.

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LoliLux

was Macron wrong? no. That is the wisest decision. Anything else will result in the total destruction of Ukraine.

what is the alternative? there is no better alternative to what Macron proposed - pretty soon half of Ukraine will be Russian . is this any better than what Macron suggested?

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Benji
59 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Tbh I don't believe Lepen was as terrible as Trump...

Her latest manifesto wasn’t that bad.  If I was french and had to pick between someone else using her manifesto or Macron, I’d have probably voted for it.

I just don’t trust her.

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Benji
2 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

was Macron wrong? no. That is the wisest decision. Anything else will result in the total destruction of Ukraine.

what is the alternative? there is no better alternative to what Macron proposed - pretty soon half of Ukraine will be Russian . is this any better than what Macron suggested?

You just don’t give up land to appease dictators.  Putin/Russia will always want more.

It’s worth remembering that China is silently watching in the wings.  Any western weakness shown will be exploited.

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LoliLux

Making a sacrifice and give Putin the land bridge from Crimea to Donbass could be a more preferable solution than 40%-50% of Ukraine falling into Russian control which is about to happen now. Such a move can be accompanied by a contract that stipulates that Russia will give up all further claims beyond that.  Ukraine should keep access to the Black sea, though.  It looks Ukraine is about to become what Korea used to be before it became two countries. I

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Roughhouse Dandy
7 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

Making a sacrifice and give Putin the land bridge from Crimea to Donbass could be a more preferable solution than 40%-50% of Ukraine falling into Russian control which is about to happen now. Such a move can be accompanied by a contract that stipulates that Russia will give up all further claims beyond that.  Ukraine should keep access to the Black sea, though.  It looks Ukraine is about to become what Korea used to be before it became two countries. I

And in what world will Russia keep its word and honor the contract? Because they won't in this one. Putin does not care about agreements or his "honor". He cares about winning. Giving him what he wants is giving him the victory and the go-ahead to commit his next plans of action. 

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Gov Hooka
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Benji said:

You just don’t give up land to appease dictators.  Putin/Russia will always want more.

It’s worth remembering that China is silently watching in the wings.  Any western weakness shown will be exploited.

The fact that the vast majority of this site thinks that the West are even marginally “better” players and that they *should* succeed over any “enemy” nation shows the absolute bubble the majority of y’all are in. The entire Global South world has always seen the West as greedy imperialist bastards and that has not changed. The US alone has engaged in war in more countries and murdered more people than the modern Russian state ever has. The murderous countries that make up the West should be increasingly weaker and finally lose their disgusting grip and policing of the global economy. 

Edited by Gov Hooka
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Gov Hooka
1 hour ago, LoliLux said:

was Macron wrong? no. That is the wisest decision. Anything else will result in the total destruction of Ukraine.

what is the alternative? there is no better alternative to what Macron proposed - pretty soon half of Ukraine will be Russian . is this any better than what Macron suggested?

People in developed countries (Westerners in particular) would rather see the entire Donbass region completely destroyed by this war, all to one up an “enemy” state they’ve been propagandized to hate by their own corporatized “free”press. No matter that the Ukrainian people are the sacrificial lamb in the game that the US military complex is playing against Russia. 

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Benji
5 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

The fact that the vast majority of this site thinks that the West are even marginally “better” players and that they *should* succeed over any “enemy” nation shows the absolute bubble the majority of y’all are in. The entire Global South world has always seen the West as greedy imperialist bastards and that has not changed. The US alone has engaged in and murdered more people than the modern Russian state ever has. The murderous countries that make up the West should be increasingly weaker and finally lose their disgusting grip and policing of the global economy. 

The west certainly has it’s problems but considering it is largely liberal, pro-lgbt and pro-women, I will always support them over countries that are not.  Wishing for their downfall and allowing a WORSE Russia or China dominate the world would be dreadful for the world.

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Benji
8 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

People in developed countries (Westerners in particular) would rather see the entire Donbass region completely destroyed by this war, all to one up an “enemy” state they’ve been propagandized to hate by their own corporatized “free”press. No matter that the Ukrainian people are the sacrificial lamb in the game that the US military complex is playing against Russia. 

This is massively incorrect.  Ukraine requested further support (such as no fly zones) but the west said no because they knew it would escalate the war.  The west has been doing what it’s been asked by Ukraine within reason.

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Gov Hooka
1 minute ago, Benji said:

The west certainly has it’s problems but considering it is largely liberal, pro-lgbt and pro-women, I will always support them over countries that are not.  Wishing for their downfall and allowing a WORSE Russia or China dominate the world would be dreadful for the world.

It is incredibly selfish to support your own imperialist countries that protect your own rights domestically at the expense of their exploitation of Global South nations. The West is responsible for colonization, chattel slavery, indigenous genocide, and currently is the driving force behind neocolonial corporate exploitation. Look at what France is *STILL* doing to its former colonies in West Africa. The US has 750+ military bases around the world, neither China nor Russia come close, from which it uses to suppress worker led movements in developing countries. It takes an absolute denial of global history and current affairs to think that these two nations are worse than the West. 

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Gov Hooka
3 minutes ago, Benji said:

This is massively incorrect.  Ukraine requested further support (such as no fly zones) but the west said no because they knew it would escalate the war.  The west has been doing what it’s been asked by Ukraine within reason.

They said no because it would escalate the war beyond Ukraine into their own borders, risking an all out nuclear war. They are perfectly fine with this war continuing so long as it is contained within Ukraine and is able to line the pockets of the elites in charge of US weapons manufacturing industry and US defense contractors. 

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