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Turkey might block Finland, Sweden from joining NATO


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PunkTheFunk
5 hours ago, Dennis said:

just kick them out of Nato. Also who was stupid enough to write EU and NATO admission requirements?
Requiring unanimous consent was a super stupid idea. Make it 4/5 majority if you want, but never require anything to have unanimous consent.

 

5 hours ago, PartySick said:

Wait so...do applications into NATO have to be unanimously approved? That's kinda stupid :laughga:

It's actually necessary. NATO operates on the principle of "an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us". So if you admit a member into NATO that other members are not willing to defend, then that principle falls apart.

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The Turkish leader's autocratic leadership style and ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, as well as Turkey's purchase of the Russian S-400 missile defense system, has generated a thorny dynamic

just kick them out of Nato. Also who was stupid enough to write EU and NATO admission requirements? Requiring unanimous consent was a super stupid idea. Make it 4/5 majority if you want, but never r

Can Turkey just calm down for a few minutes, haven’t you said enough recently. 

PartySick
Just now, PunkTheFunk said:

 

It's actually necessary. NATO operates on the principle of "an attack on one of us is an attack on all of us". So if you admit a member into NATO that other members are not willing to defend, then that principle falls apart.

Don't come up in here making sense :partysick:

And all at once, you're all I want 💚
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palma
6 hours ago, Dennis said:

just kick them out of Nato. Also who was stupid enough to write EU and NATO admission requirements?
Requiring unanimous consent was a super stupid idea. Make it 4/5 majority if you want, but never require anything to have unanimous consent.

Please don’t :bear: NATO membership is more or less the only thing that still keeps the country from erupting into some civil war and a sectarian coup at this point :bear: Take it away and Erdogan will take us to stone age to not lose the power.

4 hours ago, bionic said:

The fact Turkey is allowed in while the whole Cyprus situation continues is laughabel

Turkey became a member in the 50s, way before the invasion of Cyprus happened and if I remember correctly, Greece left the alliance back when they had a junta back in 70s yet Turkey apparently didn’t veto their re-entrance. I agree what is happening (apart from the war and ethnic tension decades ago) in Cyprus is disgusting but I think it works better for the west now that the issue of Cyprus has been swinging like Damocles’ sword on the Turkish government for decades… Its the one thing that kept both Greece and Turkey in line for ages now. So yeah it’s a little complicated than what appears in the face value.

OT: Erdogan is just asking for more money guys (since our economy is like 2 steps away from Venezuela-level) don’t buy his BS he is NOT in a position to bargain with anyone. He’s just seeing if he can get some checks for his vote. It also pleases his disgusting voter-base to bully the European countries so yeah. Erdogan would be toppled in a week (albeit with lots of bloodshed, hence more immigrants for Europe!) without the support of the EU and the USA. He’s very troublesome but they know they can buy him to agree into whatever the West wishes. Ask Merkel, she did it for like a decade :glamourpuss: 

He’s just barking (on the wrong tree tbh, I wouldn’t draw attention to myself if I was Erdogan, now that the whole free world is focused on how terrible authoritarian bullies seems to suck).

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palma
5 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

From another perspective, the war in Ukraine has a bad impact on Turkey's economy and as an effect, Turkey acts increasingly hostile towards Greece, so Ergodan may want to use Russia as an ally to eventually back its claims over the Aegean. And this is honestly not looking good. :green:

This is never going to happen. Literally maybe only 5% retarded neo-nazis would support an actual war with Greece and Turkey would collapse in a week. I lived in Greece for few months all all the TVs showed was how Erdogan and other idiots were threatening the Greek sovereignty… The media there manipulates people into fearing from Turkey as worries over security suppress worries over economy and corruption - and in Turkey, Erdogan just bullies Greece to show his voters how strong he is while everyone actually know what a joke he really is. Erdogan is no Putin guys - Turkey has no oil money to fall back to and we’ve been an integral part of the Western society for centuries - yes going back all the way to the Ottomans. No matter how hard Erdogan tried to swing the country into the Middle Eastern hellhole (whose creation he personally participated in) an overwhelming majority of people in Turkey still wish to remain on the track to EU membership. Only thing is, our opposition sucks and the country is way too corrupt to allow a peaceful transition of power when Erdogan is defeated in the next election - that is the only case something as stupid as a war against Greece could happen, but if it does, Turkey would collapse on itself before any actual conflict could take place. 
 

Sorry for the essay, its just that as a Philhellene Turk I am traumatized whenever someone brings up the possibility of a war between Greece and Turkey :bear:

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FfFfFfFF
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, palma said:

This is never going to happen. Literally maybe only 5% retarded neo-nazis would support an actual war with Greece and Turkey would collapse in a week. I lived in Greece for few months all all the TVs showed was how Erdogan and other idiots were threatening the Greek sovereignty… The media there manipulates people into fearing from Turkey as worries over security suppress worries over economy and corruption - and in Turkey, Erdogan just bullies Greece to show his voters how strong he is while everyone actually know what a joke he really is. Erdogan is no Putin guys - Turkey has no oil money to fall back to and we’ve been an integral part of the Western society for centuries - yes going back all the way to the Ottomans. No matter how hard Erdogan tried to swing the country into the Middle Eastern hellhole (whose creation he personally participated in) an overwhelming majority of people in Turkey still wish to remain on the track to EU membership. Only thing is, our opposition sucks and the country is way too corrupt to allow a peaceful transition of power when Erdogan is defeated in the next election - that is the only case something as stupid as a war against Greece could happen, but if it does, Turkey would collapse on itself before any actual conflict could take place. 
 

Sorry for the essay, its just that as a Philhellene Turk I am traumatized whenever someone brings up the possibility of a war between Greece and Turkey :bear:

As a Turk, you likely are influenced by the wordview propagated in your country, by your country's media and by the overall sentiments existing in Turkey the same way you may think Greeks are influence by anti-Turkey mainstream sentiment in Greece in some capacity. Very likely in a subtle, unconscious manner, but still. Turkey acts increasingly bold to Greece, continously invades its airspace, and doesn't recognize its souvernity over the waters in the Eaegean, this is really provocative and hostile. If a war will indeed break out someday between the international players in this region (Russia, Greece, Turkey, NATO - grouped in a bigger alliance that we don't know yet) ir Turkey will limit itself to hybrid tactics (more likely) remains to still be seen.

Edited by FfFfFfFF
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Aussie

No surprise but this isn’t the time and Turkey needs to pull their heads out of their anaconda’s. The world needs unity and stability now more than ever. This denial of their past or blaming it on ottoman times and not modern Turkey is getting old. Kurdish, Armenians, Cypriots and Greeks can’t all be delusional and Turkey always the one to come on top.  

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FfFfFfFF
5 hours ago, palma said:

This is never going to happen. Literally maybe only 5% retarded neo-nazis would support an actual war with Greece and Turkey would collapse in a week. I lived in Greece for few months all all the TVs showed was how Erdogan and other idiots were threatening the Greek sovereignty… The media there manipulates people into fearing from Turkey as worries over security suppress worries over economy and corruption - and in Turkey, Erdogan just bullies Greece to show his voters how strong he is while everyone actually know what a joke he really is. Erdogan is no Putin guys - Turkey has no oil money to fall back to and we’ve been an integral part of the Western society for centuries - yes going back all the way to the Ottomans. No matter how hard Erdogan tried to swing the country into the Middle Eastern hellhole (whose creation he personally participated in) an overwhelming majority of people in Turkey still wish to remain on the track to EU membership. Only thing is, our opposition sucks and the country is way too corrupt to allow a peaceful transition of power when Erdogan is defeated in the next election - that is the only case something as stupid as a war against Greece could happen, but if it does, Turkey would collapse on itself before any actual conflict could take place. 
 

Sorry for the essay, its just that as a Philhellene Turk I am traumatized whenever someone brings up the possibility of a war between Greece and Turkey :bear:

Also Greece and Turkey became members in 1952, they couldn't veto each other out. Following Turkey's invasion of Cyprus, Greece withdrew from NATO's military command, but did not leave NATO. Turkey couldn't block Greece membership even if it wanted, though now Erdogan said allowing Greece into NATO was indeed a mistake. France also left NATO's military command at one point without giving up its membership.

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AnnaNicoleSmith

Well I think Turkey's Erdogan should not be part of NATO anymore. Lack of democracy, pushing away journalists etc... They are going downhill. Finland and Sweden should join

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littlepotter
9 hours ago, dit said:

Turkey is a great country and it has been villainized a lot by the west. 

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mercurial era
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palma
3 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

As a Turk, you likely are influenced by the wordview propagated in your country, by your country's media and by the overall sentiments existing in Turkey the same way you may think Greeks are influence by anti-Turkey mainstream sentiment in Greece in some capacity. Very likely in a subtle, unconscious manner, but still. Turkey acts increasingly bold to Greece, continously invades its airspace, and doesn't recognize its souvernity over the waters in the Eaegean, this is really provocative and hostile. If a war will indeed break out someday between the international players in this region (Russia, Greece, Turkey, NATO - grouped in a bigger alliance that we don't know yet) ir Turkey will limit itself to hybrid tactics (more likely) remains to still be seen.

Oh trust me by no means I agree with anything the government or the Turkish state in general has been doing — since the last millenium or so :bear: and my only attachment to this country is my passport at this point so, I respectfully disagree that I am under any sort of influence, I mean I am a Byzantine historian for a starter so if anything I am inclined to be understood as pro-Greek if anything. What I was saying was, both Greek and Turkish governments keep their populace busy by pointing the other as the boogeyman, an understandable distraction given the terrible acts, the genocide, and a traumatizing population exchange, while the administration itself remains corrupt and inefficient in both countries. I am just saying the majority of Turks are friendly to Greeks and they won’t support any sort of war — the issue of Cyprus is a whole another matter and despite I disagree with what happened, I can see how they managed to get public support for war back then. Turkey and Greece would be iconic frenemies like Denmark and Sweden if we were as rich and efficient enough. No one is willing to cut their neighbors for the sake of one stupid guy who is on the verge of losing all power anyways.

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palma
3 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Also Greece and Turkey became members in 1952, they couldn't veto each other out. Following Turkey's invasion of Cyprus, Greece withdrew from NATO's military command, but did not leave NATO. Turkey couldn't block Greece membership even if it wanted, though now Erdogan said allowing Greece into NATO was indeed a mistake. France also left NATO's military command at one point without giving up its membership.

I know Turkey and Greece joined the alliance together but I didn’t know the details regarding the Greek withdrawal. Thanks for letting me know. :hug:

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Kitsch
16 hours ago, PartySick said:

The Turkish leader's autocratic leadership style and ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, as well as Turkey's purchase of the Russian S-400 missile defense system, has generated a thorny dynamic between Washington and Ankara. President Joe Biden's formal recognition of the Armenian genocide last year also enraged Erdogan, and Turkey warned that the move created a "deep wound" in relations.

It really sounds like NATO should be trading Turkey for Sweden and Finland :glamourpuss:

Sorry, but this is not going to happen, realistically. NATO and the EU has a lot of benefit with having Turkey in the NATO geopolitically. Their government has threatened several times to open the borders of Turkey with the EU to cause a massive refugee crisis in the past and the EU doesn’t want to deal with that. Do I want Sweden and Finland in the NATO? Yes - but with the current circumstances, it’s impossible due to Turkey’s relationship with Russia.

majkl > kitsch
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FfFfFfFF
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, palma said:

Oh trust me by no means I agree with anything the government or the Turkish state in general has been doing — since the last millenium or so :bear: and my only attachment to this country is my passport at this point so, I respectfully disagree that I am under any sort of influence, I mean I am a Byzantine historian for a starter so if anything I am inclined to be understood as pro-Greek if anything. What I was saying was, both Greek and Turkish governments keep their populace busy by pointing the other as the boogeyman, an understandable distraction given the terrible acts, the genocide, and a traumatizing population exchange, while the administration itself remains corrupt and inefficient in both countries. I am just saying the majority of Turks are friendly to Greeks and they won’t support any sort of war — the issue of Cyprus is a whole another matter and despite I disagree with what happened, I can see how they managed to get public support for war back then. Turkey and Greece would be iconic frenemies like Denmark and Sweden if we were as rich and efficient enough. No one is willing to cut their neighbors for the sake of one stupid guy who is on the verge of losing all power anyways.

You probably know much more about the subtilities of everything, my knowledge comes from observing geopolitics and some basic history. Because of this I am familiar with Turkey's claims over Greece's internationally recognized waters and I saw hints that Turkey's economic damage caused by the Ukraine war might make Turkey even more bold in asserting these claims. And to me this seems likely, as Turkey violated Greece's airspace for a record number of times and thus Greece precented Turkey from joining a NATO exercise on 9 May I believe. To me this points to tensions rising and I can't help but think Turkey might try to use Russia as a strategic ally in this regard. That said, I also know Turkey and Russia are heavily opposed in Lybia and Syria and a hypothetical complete closing of the Bosphorus could be seen as something existentially threatening to Russia. Geopolitics are more complicated than math. :sis:

Edited by FfFfFfFF
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GAGASEXUAL

Ugh, I can't wait to leave this country. 

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Pennywise
7 hours ago, littlepotter said:

tenor.gif

we all float down here :partysick:

YOUR GOD IS NOT HERE MICHAEL NOR WILL HE EVER BE
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