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Andrea Nicole
3 hours ago, Blastertoyo said:

By saying anyone who isn’t a cIs woman as not biological, you’re effectively erasing their humanity because you want a gold star for having a vagina and that’s downright unacceptable  

dont waste your time...she's a terf. I don't know how they're allowed in this forum. its sick. 

 

anyway, lil nas is trash for making fun of TRANS MAN, NB people and WOMEN. 

 

edit: if you see this(strawberryblond), please dont quote me. :heart:

Edited by Andrea Nicole
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LMAOOO this the best album launching campaign of ALL TIME i hope he sells 900k first week plus physicals   

BCOZ HES NOT A ****ING WOMAN. How can u even compare this with gaga. Dear lord. And looks like u literally made an account to comment this. Not egen gonna reply to u anymore

StarstruckIllusion
3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

There's a big difference between displaying the act of sex which basically all of us are capable of doing vs. being a man pretending to be pregnant. I don't get how you would even make this correlation. For what it's worth, Madonna was originally going to call her Hard Candy album Black Madonna and had even shot an artwork where she was in blackface. For obvious reasons, it never happened. That's what I'm getting at - people understand why something's offensive when it comes to race. But trying to get them to understand why something is offensive to women can be like pulling teeth sometimes.

It shouldn't be an offensive term. The word "biological" is used to refer to what our bodies are capable of based on the way we were born. It refers to our sexual organs, our hormones, our bodily functions. That is what the term is used for, it's medical terminology. That shouldn't be offensive. This is nothing to do with what you were "assigned" at birth (a term that I actually find quite offensive) it's about what your body is capable of whether you like it or not. I really don't appreciate being told how to talk about womanhood when I am a woman. Would you tell a black person how to talk about other black people? Or a gay person how to talk about other gay people? Or a disabled person how to talk about other disabled people? Think about that for a moment.

I never said those issues didn't matter. I put them there to give examples as to the types of things that people want to defend, things people understand the concept of offence for. And then following it up by saying that when a woman is offended, it's very difficult to get her heard and respected, especially among men. You trying to paint me as selfish for wanting women as a marginalised group to get the same understanding that other marginalised groups get really shows how far we still have to go in the fight for women. What Nas has done is nothing to do with him being black or gay so I don't know why you even brought that up. Nowhere did I say that I didn't respect his struggles, I just have an issue with a man pretending to be pregnant. I'm not against using pregnancy as a metaphor but only women should be doing that.

I know transmen can get pregnant, I went over this is a previous reply. I said the reason why they can is because their internal make-up is still female and their body can still provide those functions. I believe these functions can go away when full surgery is achieved though I don't know enough to comment on that. The point is that if you can get pregnant, it's because you were born with female organs, whether you identify with the female gender or not. I never said anything about transpeople nor am I against transpeople, this topic was put onto me. I find it really annoying that a woman cannot talk about the female experience of pregnancy without being made to feel like she's being selfish, transphobic and crazy. It's just typical that as soon as a woman voices offence, people weigh in with how we should talk about other groups instead.

I never said anything about transpeople, much less transphobia. I was talking about the female experience of pregnancy. This shouldn't be an offensive thing to say. It's outrageous that this is being framed this way and I feel really attacked by some of these responses.

Actually, people do use the term "biological woman" - medical professionals, mainly. It's a medical term to explain what our bodies are capable of based on the way we were born. Such a concept isn't offensive, it's reality. And no, biological woman and cis woman are not the same thing. Biological woman refers to the way a body is made upon birth regardless of how the person within that body identifies with it. Cis woman refers to a person who was born with all the bodily attributes of womanhood and is comfortable with them. The first is about medical reality, the second is about personal identity. And I never said only cis females can give birth because I know the difference between biological vs. cis. I really don't want you, to tell me, a woman who was born female, how to refer to myself and how to refer to other women like myself. We call ourselves women day-to-day but we sometimes have to use the term biological woman in certain situations and no, not to be transphobic, but to be medically accurate.

Would you tell any other person who wasn't female how to refer to themselves? By saying that biological women do not exist, you're effectively erasing women and that's downright unacceptable.

The female body is not comedy, it's not a joke, it's not a punchline. Would you say the same for someone making a racist or homophic or ableist joke? Is it only when it's women that you don't see a problem? Marginalised groups actually do have a right to dictate what's offensive to them. That's why things like hate speech are against the law.

Nas isn't trans, though. No one was even thinking about the concept of trans pregnancy because it wasn't relevant to the situation. Here we have a biological, cisgender man pretending to be pregnant and somehow the topic turned to trans pregnancy. Very ironic that pregnancy among cis women (which is the biggest group who is happens to) have been weirdly sidelined and and made to feel like they don't matter.

Again, what I've been saying to so many people here. Would you say the same thing if it was a joke that as insensitive to black people or gay people or disabled people? Why is it when it happens to women, we're told to just chill out, it's just comedy, just switch off if you don't like it?

He chose to be controversial over something that's deeply offensive to many women, though. He may be talked about but not positively. I think women's offence matters more than how successful his as campaign is.

Say it louder for the people in the back! I can't believe in 2021, women are being called crazy and effectively told to shut up over an issue that they find offensive and on a site that claims to be so pro-woman and pro-social justice in general. I have also noticed that women are supported if they're liked. If they're disliked, we have no time for their opinions or offence.

Again, using the "crazy woman" retort when a woman speaks of something that offends her. Calling me insane for talking about bodily functions that women go through. I'm at a loss at this point.

First of all, I just said you’re allowed to say what’s offensive to you. The problem is when you act like its all matter of fact, as if we’re wrong for not agreeing with you. You’re just mad that we are not as upset as you are. I don’t have a dislike towards LNX, and for whatever ungodly reason, you do. Sucks to suck I guess.

If I’d say the same about homophobia/racism? I cant imagine writing 18 paragraphs or something for the equivalent of those in a skit like this. There are way worse racist and homophobic things in the world to fight against of you’re actually productive with your online rage. Imagine acting this skit is gonna reverse women’s right to vote or something.

Also, this whole premise is trash. Men can give birth. You’re probably a TERF so you ofc didn’t think of that.

Terrified to hear your opinions on drag 🙈 Feminazi behaviour.

While women in afghanistan just lost their rights, you’re really mad about a tired pregnancy act Gaga and others have done before?!? You’re a privileged woman in a rich western country… you go be thankful for that and you’ll feel better.

 

Edited by StarstruckIllusion
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PartySick
4 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It shouldn't be an offensive term. The word "biological" is used to refer to what our bodies are capable of based on the way we were born. It refers to our sexual organs, our hormones, our bodily functions. That is what the term is used for, it's medical terminology. That shouldn't be offensive.

I'd just like to point out a lot of people here are also saying that Nas' promo skits shouldn't be offensive either.

If you take offense as a cis woman, that's reasonable, even if I or others don't agree or understand why something so silly, done before, and malice free would be so offensive. You still have a right to feel that way and a right to share how you feel.

And in the same vein, trans people and allies have a right to say using the term "biological women" is offensive.

Your issue can be discussed and viewpoints can be shared. As a woman, you have a different perspective than us so you should definitely share it.

However, their issue (the people arguing with you about this term) can be solved by you simply trading the term "biological woman" for "cis woman" (or whatever term is deemed acceptable, I'm sure someone can shed light on that). By fighting that simple thing you're detracting from your original point.

In other words, don't die on that hill when there's another battle you care about more :laughga: I've "known" you for years, I know you're not a transphobe, but it's very easy to see why others are saying you are. Your arguments against that term do come off poorly and the more you elaborate, the deeper that hole gets :deadbanana:

So I'd suggest you just let that bit go and use the terms that are accepted so you can get back to discussing the issue you actually care about :shrug:

Just my two cents :lolly:

Everyone have a great night/day :poot:

Bonafide King of Beards. Hee hee, bruv.
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PartySick
On 9/16/2021 at 3:24 PM, Blastertoyo said:

There are trans and non-binary men and women with functional uteri and who have and are able to birth children 

Out of curiosity, is there a blanket term for this?

Bonafide King of Beards. Hee hee, bruv.
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Blastertoyo
7 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Out of curiosity, is there a blanket term for this?

As far as I know, just “pregnancy” seems to be a pretty satisfactory/ non-offensive way of referring to it (anyone feel free to correct me if I’m wrong). Some may want to specify “trans-pregnancy” or “male pregnancy” if they identify with those more since male pregnancy occurs in other species in nature.

but generally pregnancy in itself the word for the gestation process and is inherently a gender neutral term

please enlighten me to death
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Andrea Nicole
19 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Out of curiosity, is there a blanket term for this?

in México we call them ''personas gestantes'' even politicians are starting to use it. the direct translation is ''pregnant people'' buts its not accurate :koons:idk if there's a term in english 

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7 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I really don't appreciate being told how to talk about womanhood when I am a woman. Would you tell a black person how to talk about other black people? Or a gay person how to talk about other gay people? Or a disabled person how to talk about other disabled people? Think about that for a moment.

you don't appreciate being told how to talk about womanhood because it's yours, yet you just made a comment saying what should and shouldn't be offensive to a group you are not a part of lol

Edited by kukuryku666
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SamanthaC
8 hours ago, PartySick said:

Out of curiosity, is there a blanket term for this?

 

8 hours ago, Andrea Nicole said:

in México we call them ''personas gestantes'' even politicians are starting to use it. the direct translation is ''pregnant people'' buts its not accurate :koons:idk if there's a term in english 

A lot of ob/gyns and fertility specialists I follow on social media will say birthing person now. 

she/her/hers
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Stephen
18 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Again, what I've been saying to so many people here. Would you say the same thing if it was a joke that as insensitive to black people or gay people or disabled people? Why is it when it happens to women, we're told to just chill out, it's just comedy, just switch off if you don't like it?

For me, you have to take into account the intention of something. Was Nas' intention to disrespect women? His intnetion was to do a comedic PR stunt that plays on the idea of artists being pregnant with their albums i.e. "pregnant with LG6"

Part of Nas' thing now is pushing the boundaries of what a male black artist is "supposed to do" regarding masculinity. The homophobic men in hip-hop were FURIOUS with him after his previous two music videos. By being pregnant he's putting up yet another middle finger to toxic masculinity. He's ballsy, he's brave, he's being provocative. It's not going to be for everybody but then again , a lot of things are not for everybody :shrug:

There's also nuances we have to take into account:

- When a cis male actor does a pregnant part in a comedy film, there might be small pushback but the reaction is not THIS intense. There is a strange cultural phenomenon that happens to music artists, they get held to this higher moral standard whereas actors and film directors get a free pass because it's "make believe". Well Lil Nas is just playing make believe too! 

 

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MV5BN2I3M2E2OWItMzZhYS00MTIzLTk2MDctOTU4

MV5BOTVkNzIyY2UtMzEyMC00YmY3LWJlMjMtY2Vi

11224212_1087069801303120_10970298425663

 

There is also the fact that Lil Nas X has become a polarizing and controversial figure BEFORE he put on the baby bump. This means that he has a lot of haters who will gladly latch on to any new reason to validate or fuel their dislike of him. ESPECIALLY when that reason can be framed as an issue or morality, offensiveness etc. because now they have a MORAL (i.e. "indefensible") reason to dislike him. "He's being OFFENSIVE!!!1 :grr:

Many of these haters are also homophobes who won't express their homophobia with their chest, instead choosing to attack him for other things as a scapegoat.

Due to this fact, many of his supporters (like myself) find it harder to distinguish between those who are bandwagon haters and those are truly offended by his baby bump. This is why my initial post was dismissive. 

Edited by Stephen
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StrawberryBlond
21 hours ago, Blastertoyo said:

By saying anyone who isn’t a cIs woman as not biological, you’re effectively erasing their humanity because you want a gold star for having a vagina and that’s downright unacceptable  

I never said non-cis women weren't biological, everyone is biological. Everyone is either a biological man or woman. Our gender identity is separate from that. That's a response to how you feel about the body you were born in. You can change your gender but you can't change your sex and biological sex informs us what our bodies can and can't do. It's not there to be hateful, it's crucial medical terminology. We need to know someone's biological sex so we know what their medical needs are and how to treat them. Sex is about scientific fact, gender identity is about one's personal feelings regarding their sex. I never said I wanted a gold star for having a vagina and I feel that's a very disrespectful way to talk about a woman. I never said anything about how being born a woman made me better than those who weren't. I'm merely pointing out the way we were born makes us capable of different things and some people blew it way out of proportion.

18 hours ago, Andrea Nicole said:

what I'm not going to do is read a reply that looks like a long *ss thesis that was written by a terf on a Lady Gaga fan forum, too much Internet for today. :heart:

If you read it, you'd understand me far more even if you didn't agree and you certainly wouldn't be calling me a terf which is utterly untrue and hurtful. I think people just can't wait to throw that word around these days the instant anyone wants to talk about anything scientific to do with sex and gender instead of actually examining what is being said. In future, don't ever call people names like that until you've done your research on them. I notice you said not to quote you, so you want to insult me and call me names but then don't want me to defend myself?

18 hours ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

First of all, I just said you’re allowed to say what’s offensive to you. The problem is when you act like its all matter of fact, as if we’re wrong for not agreeing with you. You’re just mad that we are not as upset as you are. I don’t have a dislike towards LNX, and for whatever ungodly reason, you do. Sucks to suck I guess.

If I’d say the same about homophobia/racism? I cant imagine writing 18 paragraphs or something for the equivalent of those in a skit like this. There are way worse racist and homophobic things in the world to fight against of you’re actually productive with your online rage. Imagine acting this skit is gonna reverse women’s right to vote or something.

Also, this whole premise is trash. Men can give birth. You’re probably a TERF so you ofc didn’t think of that.

Terrified to hear your opinions on drag 🙈 Feminazi behaviour.

While women in afghanistan just lost their rights, you’re really mad about a tired pregnancy act Gaga and others have done before?!? You’re a privileged woman in a rich western country… you go be thankful for that and you’ll feel better.

I didn't say anything was matter of fact, nor that everyone should agree with me. That's your interpretation of it. I have nothing against Nas as a person, I don't think he should be cancelled, I just disagree with this one choice he made.

I never said that this skit is going to result in things getting worse for women, just that I find it a gross example of how men do things that they don't even realise is offensive to women and then get overly defensive when they get called out for it. And ever and always, pointing out that there are much worse things to be concentrating on. Deflection is what gets us silenced at every turn.

If you'd bothered reading what I said previously, you'd have seen me acknowledging that transmen and nonbinary people can give birth, so, again, anyone here calling me a terf is wildly uninformed.

I didn't say anything about drag, so what are you saying? And you're calling me a feminazi? You are aware that's a term that misogynists use, right?

I'm not getting mad when women do it because they're women, obviously. I just have a problem with men doing it. And again, you're acting like I'm not aware there are bigger issues out there than this but the little things matter too and they build up and they're everywhere, all around us, but no one wants to talk about them. Every day I see situations where men don't understand the female experience and it's exhausting. I may be privileged in a western country but that doesn't mean we aren't still subject to sexism. It's the attitude that feminism is only needed in non-western countries that partly keeps sexism going globally and makes it less likely to be taken seriously.

17 hours ago, PartySick said:

I'd just like to point out a lot of people here are also saying that Nas' promo skits shouldn't be offensive either.

If you take offense as a cis woman, that's reasonable, even if I or others don't agree or understand why something so silly, done before, and malice free would be so offensive. You still have a right to feel that way and a right to share how you feel.

And in the same vein, trans people and allies have a right to say using the term "biological women" is offensive.

Your issue can be discussed and viewpoints can be shared. As a woman, you have a different perspective than us so you should definitely share it.

However, their issue (the people arguing with you about this term) can be solved by you simply trading the term "biological woman" for "cis woman" (or whatever term is deemed acceptable, I'm sure someone can shed light on that). By fighting that simple thing you're detracting from your original point.

In other words, don't die on that hill when there's another battle you care about more :laughga: I've "known" you for years, I know you're not a transphobe, but it's very easy to see why others are saying you are. Your arguments against that term do come off poorly and the more you elaborate, the deeper that hole gets :deadbanana:

So I'd suggest you just let that bit go and use the terms that are accepted so you can get back to discussing the issue you actually care about :shrug:

Just my two cents :lolly:

Everyone have a great night/day :poot:

If my opinions are so welcome, then why are people being allowed to say awful things to me and call me names? I was expecting your post to mention something about how what they said was unacceptable, not that it's my medical terminology that's the issue. I've never liked the term 'cis' and there's no other 'acceptable' term to use in its place, so what am I supposed to say? Plenty of cisgender people do not like this term but we're being told to call ourselves this which seems to go against the the notion of supporting people's right to call themselves whatever they wish. I grew up being called a girl and a woman, nothing preceding it and when it came to issues of physiology, to put the word 'biological' in front of it. That's what we're been raised to call ourselves and we've never had a problem with that, it's what feels normal and right for us. And the word 'cis' has a lot of negative connotations around it as, when shortened, it's frequently used to put down cisgender people. I think a lot of us picture the t-shirt that read 'die cis scum' on it when we hear the term. Most of us has no connection to the word at best so feel no need to use it. Nevertheless, if it keeps the peace, then fine. If it's really as simple as people having an issue with this one word choice, I don't see why they can't switch it in their minds but whatever.

I'm glad that you say that I'm not a transphobe, I just wish everyone else would agree. I've never said anything negative about transpeople nor was I even talking about them initially, it was all forced onto me so I was forced to respond so to be called transphobic at the end of all that was a bitter blow and it feels like anything that I said beforehand has been forgotten as this stuff stemarollered over it.

14 hours ago, kukuryku666 said:

you don't appreciate being told how to talk about womanhood because it's yours, yet you just made a comment saying what should and shouldn't be offensive to a group you are not a part of lol

I was talking about how the word biological is meant to be applied and how it should be viewed by everyone, not just transpeople. I don't recall anyone having an issue with the word until a few years ago so to see the misunderstanding surrounding the phrase out of the blue has left me baffled and leads me to wonder how we can talk about physical differences without being cancelled.

3 hours ago, Stephen said:

For me, you have to take into account the intention of something. Was Nas' intention to disrespect women? His intnetion was to do a comedic PR stunt that plays on the idea of artists being pregnant with their albums i.e. "pregnant with LG6"

Part of Nas' thing now is pushing the boundaries of what a male black artist is "supposed to do" regarding masculinity. The homophobic men in hip-hop were FURIOUS with him after his previous two music videos. By being pregnant he's putting up yet another middle finger to toxic masculinity. He's ballsy, he's brave, he's being provocative. It's not going to be for everybody but then again , a lot of things are not for everybody :shrug:

There's also nuances we have to take into account:

- When a cis male actor does a pregnant part in a comedy film, there might be small pushback but the reaction is not THIS intense. There is a strange cultural phenomenon that happens to music artists, they get held to this higher moral standard whereas actors and film directors get a free pass because it's "make believe". Well Lil Nas is just playing make believe too! 

 

Juniorposter.jpg  

MV5BN2I3M2E2OWItMzZhYS00MTIzLTk2MDctOTU4

MV5BOTVkNzIyY2UtMzEyMC00YmY3LWJlMjMtY2Vi

11224212_1087069801303120_10970298425663

 

There is also the fact that Lil Nas X has become a polarizing and controversial figure BEFORE he put on the baby bump. This means that he has a lot of haters who will gladly latch on to any new reason to validate or fuel their dislike of him. ESPECIALLY when that reason can be framed as an issue or morality, offensiveness etc. because now they have a MORAL (i.e. "indefensible") reason to dislike him. "He's being OFFENSIVE!!!1 :grr:

Many of these haters are also homophobes who won't express their homophobia with their chest, instead choosing to attack him for other things as a scapegoat.

Due to this fact, many of his supporters (like myself) find it harder to distinguish between those who are bandwagon haters and those are truly offended by his baby bump. This is why my initial post was dismissive. 

I don't believe he was trying to be offensive but the thing is, the line that we're given now is that intention doesn't matter, if someone's offended, that matters more than whatever intention there was. Not saying this is always the best way to go about things but I just wonder why this isn't the line we take when it comes to an issue that offends women. Yes, I understand the metaphor but to my mind, it's only women that should be exercising that metaphor. There's a reason why only female artists get this 'pregnant with their album' concept.

If he wants to be controversial, it's fine if it involves stuff that are responses to the way the world treats people like him and realities. But pretending to be pregnant, which is something physically impossible for him, just comes off like it's being provocative for no good reason. If you're going to be controversial, do it for social commentary, don't come up with ridiculous situations that would never happen.

I've heard of the first film but none of the other ones. Notice how they're all comedy films, it's all just a joke, yet pregnancy for women is no joke. No film like this ever got massive success or critical acclaim because they treat the subject badly. I don't really care who tries to put the concept of males being pregnant forward, the whole concept is just ludicrous unless it's a transman that's involved for that's something that could actually happen, but it's nearly always a cis male situation which just doesn't cut it.

Well, rest assured I have nothing against Nas a person and I don't really care if he wants to be controversial, so long as he doesn't do anything unforgivably offensive. I just thought he crossed the line on this one occasion and hope he just doesn't do anything like that again. We're all entitled to a mistake or two, however, I don't think there's been enough of a backlash for any sort of his acknowledgement on his part that what he did could have been very problematic.

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18 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I was talking about how the word biological is meant to be applied and how it should be viewed by everyone, not just transpeople. I don't recall anyone having an issue with the word until a few years ago so to see the misunderstanding surrounding the phrase out of the blue has left me baffled and leads me to wonder how we can talk about physical differences without being cancelled.

well, you saying how in your opinion people should do this and feel about that isn't going to change the fact that it can be triggering or offensive and using other words is easy and doesn't cost you anything

maybe instead of defending it, just learn and try to find a reason why others may not like it

 

you're comments about the term cis and how some things weren't a problem few years ago are really sus, but whatever

i'm kinda over this conversation

...and no one is getting cancelled lol

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Andrea Nicole

omg cis tears :partysick: trans-exclusionary women are the worst. I won't be using this site again, can't believe transphobes are allowed in here. 

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