Official Israel/Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread

[PartySick 118,993]

18 minutes ago, lego said:

“Two state” is just not possible. Repeating that is status quo.

So what is the long term goal here? Just curious 'cause Israel is 100% not going anywhere and, correct me if I'm wrong (which is very likely ), but most people living in Israel were born there, they didn't personally colonize it so...are people expecting them to leave? Or? That's a bit like expecting every non-Native American to move back to Europe, Africa, or wherever their ancestors are from.

Inform me

Personally, I think they should just stop fighting and form a single government with both Israeli and Palestinian representation. But I realize that's also not going to happen

[Dolev 805]

29 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

So you're a Zionist but you don't even know what Zionism is ok werk  

yeah, a proud one. but ofc you, who lives abroad, knows better than me 

[Dolev 805]

12 minutes ago, PartySick said:

So what is the long term goal here? Just curious 'cause Israel is 100% not going anywhere and, correct me if I'm wrong (which is very likely ), but most people living in Israel were born there, they didn't personally colonize it so...are people expecting them to leave? Or? That's a bit like expecting every non-Native American to move back to Europe, Africa, or wherever their ancestors are from.

Inform me

Personally, I think they should just stop fighting and form a single government with both Israeli and Palestinian representation. But I realize that's also not going to happen

that’s the sad, hidden truth regarding some users real agenda here - stoping Israel existence.

[lego 44,165]

16 minutes ago, PartySick said:

So what is the long term goal here? Just curious 'cause Israel is 100% not going anywhere and, correct me if I'm wrong (which is very likely ), but most people living in Israel were born there, they didn't personally colonize it so...are people expecting them to leave? Or? That's a bit like expecting every non-Native American to move back to Europe, Africa, or wherever their ancestors are from.

Inform me

Personally, I think they should just stop fighting and form a single government with both Israeli and Palestinian representation. But I realize that's also not going to happen

 

 

One state solution.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/05/26/israel-palestinians-gaza-blinken-one-state-solution-bigotry/

“...much-discussed alternative is the “one-state solution” — i.e., encouraging Israelis and Palestinians to coexist as citizens in one state, with equal rights and responsibilities. This notion is constantly dismissed. During a recent online discussion, Tzipi Livni, a former Israeli foreign minister, declared the one-state solution was “something that we cannot afford.” The statement was deeply problematic — and on one level, quite frankly, if taken to its logical conclusion, was underpinned by racist undertones.

the vehemence against a one-state solution is appalling because it is rooted in a notion that Palestinians and Israelis simply cannot live together. It’s important to note the pushback often comes from partisans of Israel, not pro-Palestinian campaigners. The insinuation is simply this — Palestinians in particular, but Arabs more generally, are simply not capable of living in a diverse society. “

 

 

 

 

[PartySick 118,993]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

 

One state solution.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/05/26/israel-palestinians-gaza-blinken-one-state-solution-bigotry/

“...much-discussed alternative is the “one-state solution” — i.e., encouraging Israelis and Palestinians to coexist as citizens in one state, with equal rights and responsibilities. This notion is constantly dismissed. During a recent online discussion, Tzipi Livni, a former Israeli foreign minister, declared the one-state solution was “something that we cannot afford.” The statement was deeply problematic — and on one level, quite frankly, if taken to its logical conclusion, was underpinned by racist undertones.

the vehemence against a one-state solution is appalling because it is rooted in a notion that Palestinians and Israelis simply cannot live together. It’s important to note the pushback often comes from partisans of Israel, not pro-Palestinian campaigners. The insinuation is simply this — Palestinians in particular, but Arabs more generally, are simply not capable of living in a diverse society. “

 

 

 

 

The way I (kind of) answered my own question

 

25 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Personally, I think they should just stop fighting and form a single government with both Israeli and Palestinian representation. But I realize that's also not going to happen

I'm relieved it's not what I feared (a sort of "repossession" of Israel and a mass exodus of Israelis to somewhere else). 

Appreciate the answer

12 minutes ago, Dolev said:

that’s the sad, hidden truth regarding some users real agenda here - stoping Israel existence.

The one state solution is a solid idea though.

[alsemanche 68,929]

15 minutes ago, Dolev said:

that’s the sad, hidden truth regarding some users real agenda here - stoping Israel existence.

is it really hidden when I've been saying it for years 

[Dolev 805]

8 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

is it really hidden when I've been saying it for years 

which means to end Israel’s jewish identity, which is again, the only expression of our right of self-determination, like all nations. do you think jews aren’t equally deserve the right of self determination? 

[lego 44,165]

 

@alsemanche @littlepotter that kid about Lebanon 🙄

 

 

[alsemanche 68,929]

2 minutes ago, Dolev said:

which means to end Israel’s jewish identity, which is again, the only expression of our right of self-determination, like all nations. do you think jews aren’t equally deserve the right of self determination? 

No one deserves the right of self-determination at the expense of other nope 

The fact that they happen to be Jewish doesn't change anything, I would have the same stance if they were Christian or Muslim or idk some religion I've never even heard of. If your self-determination is at the expense of Palestinians then to hell with it  Your definition of self-determination is colonialism and that's not even up for debate, it's literally facts and we have been witnessing for decades. There are endless Jews who are self-determined without colonizing others, without being Zionists, and without being Israelis. But sure let's ignore all that and paint settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing as the only way to self-determination! 

[Dolev 805]

2 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

No one deserves the right of self-determination at the expense of other nope 

The fact that they happen to be Jewish doesn't change anything, I would have the same stance if they were Christian or Muslim or idk some religion I've never even heard of. If your self-determination is at the expense of Palestinians then to hell with it  Your definition of self-determination is colonialism and that's not even up for debate, it's literally facts and we have been witnessing for decades. There are endless Jews who are self-determined without colonizing others, without being Zionists, and without being Israelis. But sure let's ignore all that and paint settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing as the only way to self-determination! 

there will be no expense if Palestinians will give their hand for peace. they could have their own state years ago and missed these opportunities by choice. saying Jews doesn’t deserve the right of self determination is antisemitic 

[alsemanche 68,929]

3 minutes ago, lego said:

 

@alsemanche @littlepotter that kid about Lebanon 🙄

 

 

That's what happens when the brainwashing starts from birth practically. Let's not forget when Zionist parents gave markers for their children to write on missiles that were going to be used to shell Lebanon (which was then justified as "letting off some steam from being cooped up" and "doing silly things" after being "under pressure", and then it was blamed on the photographers who took the photos because they wanted to sensationalize what's happening, you know like that video justifying the Zionist settler hitting the teenagers with his car). 

[alsemanche 68,929]

40 minutes ago, Dolev said:

there will be no expense if Palestinians will give their hand for peace. they could have their own state years ago and missed these opportunities by choice. saying Jews doesn’t deserve the right of self determination is antisemitic 

Ah yes let's colonize them then blame them for not wanting peace, that'll do it! Besides, what peace? Israel couldn't even hold a ceasefire for more than a few hours. And don't even try to say Palestinians were the one who broke it, that's a straight up lie. 

And I said Zionists have no right for "self-determination" through colonialism. You're the one who keeps bringing up the Jewish identity (which you clearly can't differentiate from Zionism). I said Jews can self-determine without genocide, and proof is Jews all over the world who don't need Israel to survive and who oppose it. But, once again, you ignore that and decide I'm anti-Semitic because it's an easy cop out. Nice try though.   

Edited May 28, 2021 by alsemanche

[Dolev 805]

Just now, alsemanche said:

Ah yes let's colonize them then blame them for not wanting peace, that'll do it! Besides, what peace? Israel couldn't even hold a ceasefire for more than a few hours. And don't even try to say Palestinians were the one who broke it, that's a straight up lie. 

And I said Zionists have no right for "self-determination" through colonialism. You're the one who keeps bringing up the Jewish identity (which you clearly can't differentiate from Zionism). I said Jews can self-determine without genocide, and proof is Jews all over the world who don't need Israel to survive and who oppose it. But, once again, you ignore that and decide I'm anti-Semitic because it's an easy cope out. Nice try though.   

the ceasefire was broke? please enlighten me

again, zionism is a movement aimed to establish national home for the jews. the right of self determination is given to all nations, jews included. saying they don’t deserve it is antisemitic. and who are you to speak for 14-15 million of jews worldwide? most of them does live in israel and hold israeli citizenship.

[alsemanche 68,929]

4 minutes ago, Dolev said:

the ceasefire was broke? please enlighten me

again, zionism is a movement aimed to establish national home for the jews. the right of self determination is given to all nations, jews included. saying they don’t deserve it is antisemitic. and who are you to speak for 14-15 million of jews worldwide? most of them does live in israel and hold israeli citizenship.

Did you even keep up with any news? Like you know, when Palestinians were attacked in the streets while celebrating, or when the IOF attacked them in al-Aqsa (I know you'll probably pull up some article justifying this, I've seen endless people do it already), or the fact that Sheikh Jarrah is still under blockade, or the countless arrests, or the Silwan case happening right now that's basically Sheikh Jarrah 2.0 (which basically happens all the time in Palestine)? Or does ceasefire to you only mean no Palestinians are getting carpet bombed (for the time being at least)? 

And I won't even bother with the rest of your reply, you're not even reading a word I'm writing and keep regurgitating the same stuff and ignoring the colonial nature of Zionism and Israel because it's convenient to you. 

[littlepotter 68,730]

1 hour ago, lego said:

 

@alsemanche @littlepotter that kid about Lebanon 🙄

 

 

This is so terrifying........ my god

Deserves its own thread for all those who say "palestine uses children!!1" what do you call this then