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Official Israel/Palestine Conflict Discussion Thread


SamanthaC

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HuffsAhoy
7 minutes ago, coolninjaguy said:

LITERALLY. the fact that people on here are taking settler-colonialism, genocide, and ethnic cleansing so lightly is highly disturbing. Palestine truly is the litmus test for these self-proclaimed “progressives” and “activists”.

I empathize, I do. It is often a tough pill to swallow when you come to terms with the fact that your idols (or things you love) isn't perfect. But I think it makes you a better fan, in a way, when you are able to critical examine all aspects of said interests, both good and bad. No one is trashing her, or otherwise espousing vitriol, it's called healthy debate. It doesn't mean we hate her or anyone, but it doesn't mean we have to say "Yess Goddess" every second. 

You remind me that it's such a wonderful thing to love.
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Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only sol

Free Palestine. 

What has happened to Palestine can only be described as settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. 

coolninjaguy

Keep in mind Palestine is being bombed on Eid Today, basically the equivalent of Christmas for muslims around the globe. Young children that should be celebrating a holiday are instead either being killed or mourning the deaths of their siblings, mothers, and fathers due to the actions of a hyper-violent nuclear-armed apartheid regime founded on the ethnic cleansing of them and their ancestors. 

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coolninjaguy
4 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

I empathize, I do. It is often a tough pill to swallow when you come to terms with the fact that your idols (or things you love) isn't perfect. But I think it makes you a better fan, in a way, when you are able to critical examine all aspects of said interests, both good and bad. No one is trashing her, or otherwise espousing vitriol, it's called healthy debate. It doesn't mean we hate her or anyone, but it doesn't mean we have to say "Yess Goddess" every second. 

I agree! Especially on an issue such as this I am hoping she can reflect and if she truly cares about human rights, as she has stated throughout her career, she unconditionally extends that belief to ALL humans.

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ARTPOP
11 minutes ago, Regina George said:

 

The way he is on the floor not moving and still beaten :fatcat:

Racist pieces of sh*t

COME ON GAYS!!
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Dosman93
8 hours ago, SevenWonder said:

It's a very confusing saga that is quite literally millennia in the making. I'll give you my unbiased take, as I see it (I  have no dog in this fight, but have studied the region), in a summarized, dumbed down version:

Essentially both Palestinians and Israeli's want the same land. And have fought over it forever and a day. Because of religious and ethnic differences, the two factions hate each other. (Well, it's mostly religious differences). And they seem to enjoy hating each other. Not really, but it sorta feels like that. Like the worst sort of co-dependent relationship ever. One that's lasted thousands of years.

To make matters worse, neighboring countries hate Israel with the same fervor that the Palestinians do (but also have no high regard for Palestinians - except that they're aren't as bad as Israel). This makes Israel SUPER sensitive to any perceived threat. They feel like they have no choice but to be on the defensive at all times. Again, they're hated on all sides (once again: thanks religion!). But if Israel was gone? Palestinians would still be screwed. Again, no one in the region cares too much for Palestine either. So it's sort of a rabid dog next to a feral cat, if you get that. 

The West sides with Israel for LOTS of complicated reasons. On one level, shared Western, enlightened values (supposedly). On other levels, for economic and political strategies (oil, keeping tabs on Iran, etc.). Still on other levels, both the West and Israel think they're superior and "bond" over that. Which is, of course, a huge problem. It's led to Israel being a bully at best and a downright genocidal at worst. 

As for us gheys? Israel is VERY pro gay. Palestinians tend to be very NOT pro gay. So that can be confusing for us. It's hard to root for a people that, in theory, want you dead or erased. But, of course, it's more complicated than that. Still, that might be what you're seeing on your FB feed regarding gheys siding with Israel.

But, to bring it back full circle: It comes down to land. Israel doesn't want to give up any to a Palestinian state - which currently doesn't exist. So Palestinians are forced to live in a tiny strip of land called Gaza. To make matters worse, Gaza is run by terrorists. So it's super easy for Israel to do unjust things in Gaza and blame "terrorists". Which is sorta true. And Palestinians can blame big, bad, Israel to justify their bad behavior. Which is also sorta true. 

Basically, it's been a mess of a problem for about 2,000 years and, sadly, I don't think it will ever right itself. Nothing ever works. Nothing. No one is innocent. Not even close. They just fight and fight and fight and blame and blame and blame. It's downright depressing. 

Hope that helps!

 

I think you've kinda danced around or didn't really mention that Palestine was a country and after one of the world wars, the states just decided to give Jews someone else's land.  It . Stems. From. That. 

 

Imagine owning a home and someone random telling others they can move in with you and then those new tenants try kicking you out. This is what isreal is doing as a whole to Palestine but also to every Palestinian home. Currently Israelite citizens are just walking into Palestinian houses and claiming it as their own BECAUSE THEY CAN. 

 

you can make it sound as 'even' and what not but the real issue is a parasite taking over a host rather than trying to coexist with it.

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TasteLikeWhiskey

Most people equate the Israeli government's actions to the Apartheid regime in South Africa. As a South African I don't agree with this, but I do get the point that wants to be made. 

But then, as a 'child' of Nelson Mandela, I am abhorred by the sentiment most of the users on here express about this human rights crisis. 

War is never the ****ing answer! Some users have, for instance, stated that there can be no peace with colonizers. Like WTF. No peace between 2 human beings coming from different upbringings and ideology? Between 2 human beings who didn't have the choice where they are born or born in the situations they are born into? 

Sorry. Can't agree with that. 

“Resentment is like drinking poison and then hoping it will kill your enemies.” - Nelson Mandela 

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong
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lego

 

Please say again how this is all just self defense and how Israel wants peace. 

 

FreePalestine
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Melech
2 hours ago, Regina George said:

It can’t and won’t work. Israel stole that land, killed people in process. They don’t need to be rewarded for that. Israel as a country should never be approved. 

And Arab nations expelled Jews as well. No country is innocent there.

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TasteLikeWhiskey

Also.... and I know that I am going to be attacked for this.... But there is very little understanding of the principles of International Law on this forum! 

The standing precedent of international law is the reason why there is this crisis and why it can't be easily stopped or changed. 

It is actually, in fact, just as most social issues are, an issue of law. Since that is what we all agreed to follow in respect of each other. This crisis has to be solved with incrimental improvements. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law

I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong
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SchwineLove
5 hours ago, E MO TION said:

I'm from Israel actually, but I don't think one state will work. I know the situation and the sides from a close perspective, and both of the sides want a national state. Two nation state is not really practical because of the deep rooted conflict, also it kind of contrasting the idea of why a Jewish state was created. My ideal solution is having two states and Jerusalem be under international regime, since neither sides can acclaim it fully

Actually this. I'm a muslim from Indonesia and this actually makes sense, especially about Jerusalem. Why not make it a special administrated city, with a board of religious figures, let's say from Israel, Palestine, Arab Saudi, and Vatican. One state will never work, but two state solution needs to be defined with a clear land boundaries, not with vague border lines. Why not make it 50:50. We have to be pragmatic about it, Israel is a product of UK's problematic colonialist decision in 1947, of course it will be unfair. You (Israel) should have not be greedy in the past and settle this problem in maybe 1960s with a fair and wise decision on land division with Palestine state-to-be, this kind of problem in 2021 is just a mess.

but again maybe Palestine just won't accept it since it's their land in the beginning, if only with a solution of 50:50 land area with clear and simple land borderline defining, but that never happen so we don't know what will happen if that kind of 50:50 agreement ever been proposed.

But if such 50:50 agreement is proposed, Palestine should be pragmatic and just accept it for the sake of maybe world peace, because historically, many nations in the world accept injustice in the old time and had to move on.

 

(This might be bad and overreaching opinion, I'm not good at forming english sentence)

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SchwineLove
38 minutes ago, Melech said:

And Arab nations expelled Jews as well. No country is innocent there.

Expelled and killing is not a fair comparison. It seems how coolheaded you Israeli are, you have this subconsciously wired mindset that any life except Israeli is not counted in figures. I mean, I'm coolheadedly had enough with your gaslights.

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Melech
8 minutes ago, SchwineLove said:

Expelled and killing is not a fair comparison. It seems how coolheaded you Israeli are, you have this subconsciously wired mindset that any life except Israeli is not counted in figures. I mean, I'm coolheadedly had enough with your gaslights.

There were also Jews killed, Farhud as an example. This is not a competition either. Peace is needed. The killing of Palestinians can’t continue.

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GucciGa
2 hours ago, HuffsAhoy said:

This kind of blind loyalty to someone is frankly disturbing. :bear: If you can't handle a legitimate, mature, conversation about a topic such as this without downplaying people's valid arguments, maybe this particular thread isn't for you. 

Is it blind loyalty? Or is it seeing fans drag her into it and project all sorts of accusations onto her based on either her silence or an old interview where she said Tel Aviv was a beautiful city....? 

Believe what you want to believe, but your argument is no more valid than mine. 

 

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