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PopMusicForever

So basically Israeli people had no land so they decided to go to Palestine and take over its native people and commit ethnic cleansing towards innocent people for over 70 years because their holy book says that is their land? 🤔 

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Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only sol

Free Palestine. 

What has happened to Palestine can only be described as settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. 

Regina George
1 minute ago, PopMusicForever said:

So basically Israeli people had no land so they decided to go to Palestine and take over its native people and commit ethnic cleansing towards innocent people for over 70 years because their holy book says that is their land? 🤔 

Yes. 

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XCX World
1 minute ago, Regina George said:

Jews, Muslims and Christians lived there in peace for years before Zionists came and stole the land. Being jew and being zionist is not the same and it will never be the same. And yes zionists magically appeared in Palestine after they escaped Europe in WWII and Palestinians accepted them and after that they stole their land. Learn your history. Zionists should not be rewarded for killing, stealing and lying.

Girl.... You need to learn history. While Zionism and Judaism aren't the same thing you describe it as if the Zionism came here and built a state out of their own willing and against the Jewish who were here. Nope

Zionist Jewish existed for a long time, and they were in Israel before 1948. The World Zionist Congress was actually established in 1897 and worked for a Jewish state in Israel long before 1948. 

Another quick FYI, the 1948 war was started by the arabs in the land, after refusing the UN solution of 2 states

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GucciGa
5 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

 

Yeah I know that, still disappointing for someone who's allegedly all about kindness. But definitely not surprised by it

But if she came out and supported Palestine then pro Israel people would say she isnt kind. So she can't win. My feeling is that going by her track record she's against anybody being hurt and killed. 

But again, you should stop looking to pop stars to speak out on world affairs. 

 

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XCX World
2 minutes ago, PopMusicForever said:

So basically Israeli people had no land so they decided to go to Palestine and take over its native people and commit ethnic cleansing towards innocent people for over 70 years because their holy book says that is their land? 🤔 

Nope. Jewish are native to this land as well. And they didn't just decided that, the UN decided to divide the land to 2 states. The Jews in the land agreed while the Arabs decided to start the 1948 war.

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alsemanche
Just now, GucciGa said:

But if she came out and supported Palestine then pro Israel people would say she isnt kind. So she can't win. My feeling is that going by her track record she's against anybody being hurt and killed. 

But again, you should stop looking to pop stars to speak out on world affairs. 

 

“Oh it was fantastic!” said Lady Gaga in an interview published Friday by The Independent, talking about her September 13 performance in Tel Aviv. “Tel Aviv was magnificent. The world view of Israel is just not reality. It’s in a beautiful place, the people are in good spirits.”

It's not about kindness, it's about being a decent person and supporting people who are getting murdered every day. Even if she does support Palestine, it means nothing when she said that Israel is a beautiful place and the world's view is a misconception (which it's not, btw). Pop stars have a huge platforms that helps educate people and support those who need support. And Gaga uses her platform for activism, it's not like she only posts music stuff on her socials. I'm sure she could have spared 2.5 seconds of her time to support Palestine if she cared, but she clearly doesn't based on her statement. 

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Gogo Yubari
3 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

I don’t get how anyone can’t sympathize with people being oppressed and have almost to zero human-rights. I am not blaming you, I suggest to do your own unbiased research beyond Big News networks.  

I agree my knowledge is more limited to textbooks, the news, and a bit of university study on this topic. So do forgive me for making any mistakes.

I really do sympathize with them, especially the children that won't get an inch of stability in their lives.

But I don't sympathize with Hamas firing rockets into Israel that kills Israeli citizens, nor when Israel expects forgiveness for killing innocent Palestinians.

This where the West or the Arab League need to step in with people first, politics last approach.

Israelis and Palestinians have a lot more in common than what separates them. Unfortunately both sides of leadership are going against what's best for the people.

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Regina George
7 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

Girl.... You need to learn history. While Zionism and Judaism aren't the same thing you describe it as if the Zionism came here and built a state out of their own willing and against the Jewish who were here. Nope

Zionist Jewish existed for a long time, and they were in Israel before 1948. The World Zionist Congress was actually established in 1897 and worked for a Jewish state in Israel long before 1948. 

Another quick FYI, the 1948 war was started by the arabs in the land, after refusing the UN solution of 2 states

 

6 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

Nope. Jewish are native to this land as well. And they didn't just decided that, the UN decided to divide the land to 2 states. The Jews in the land agreed while the Arabs decided to start the 1948 war.

Girl. UN literally gave Europe jews that came from Europe land in Palestine. Jews that are native to Palestine didn’t do anything before that concerning their own land. Stop sharing false statements. And stop protecting the oppresor. It’s not a good look. 
 

Also @DitaDolla there’s a reson you can’t write any arguments and instead you’re reacting with LMAOs. 

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ARTPOP
25 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

That's why a two state solution is the most realistic one. No side will ever get a hold of the land solely, and this way both sides will get a national state

Sorry, I have to disagree again since both sides are not equal with power so the resolution will obviously favor Israel and allow the right-winged nationalists to continue their work.
I am not disregarding your opinion but I have a couple of jewish friends who went on the birthright trip and told me how Israelis are being indoctrinated that all of the lands are theirs (including West Bank and Gaza).  You can never reach peace with such a nationalist governmental indoctrination. 

32 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

think that the illegal settlement should be disbanded and that the expulsion should stop

Are there any real loud voices in Israel against that? Since The right-wing has been in the government since forever no? 
 

I hope you and your family can stay safe :runhug: 

COME ON GAYS!!
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Ronlop
8 hours ago, alsemanche said:

Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only solution is decolonization. No two-state solution, no peace treaties, nothing. Decolonization.
I frankly don't care what anyone replies to this and I won't be contributing any further to the thread (probably) because I've been doing that for days and it's led nowhere. But here goes.

Your suggestion will only lead to more war and crimes. It's out of touch of reality to think that 6 million Jews, most of which were born and raised in Israel, will be wiped off the map. The closest solution to peace is a two-state solution. Not either Palestine or Israel but both living peacefully next to each other. 

Over 8 million Israelis and over 5 million Palestinians aren't going anywhere and both sides need to accept that and strive for a two-state solution recognizing the independence of both countries.

 

8 hours ago, alsemanche said:

 

 You wanna talk about the missiles that allegedly rained on Israelis? Barely any of them even landed. Why? Because Israel has the technology to shoot them down way before they land. And how do they have this technology? Thanks to the US (who btw finances them and trains their soldiers). So yeah, there are no equal sides here. One is practicing genocide, ethnic cleansing, expulsion and displacement of people from their homes and their land, while the other is doing its best to fight back and decolonize, even if it meant offering thousands of martyrs. 

Israel has the technology to shoot them down but that also is limited, especially when there are over 300 missiles targeted on Israeli civilians in one day. And when it fails to defend, it is deadly. Just today a 5 year old kid died of his injuries. Not to mention the constant fear that innocent civilians and especially in the south of Israel need to cope with on almost a daily basis. There are also plenty of examples in which Hamas and Palestinian terrorists have gone beyond just "fighting back". Itamar Massacre 2017 Halamish Stabbing  2016 Tel Aviv Shooting Passover Massacre

There should never be a justification for harming innocent civilians from both of the sides. 

8 hours ago, alsemanche said:

Let me also point something out: opposing the settler colonial 'state' of Israel is not anti-Semitic. I know this will pop up sooner or later, as arguments with Zionists always end up with that accusation being thrown around. Opposing Zionism is opposing a right-wing ideology that is founded on colonial ideals and that has genocide at its very core. This is what I and millions are opposing, not the Jewish people. Jewish people existed in the Palestinian land long before the Zionist project was enforced, and they lived peacefully with their Arab neighbors (and when I say neighbors, I mean next door neighbors, not neighboring countries). Then the colonial project started and all hell broke loose on the original owners of the land.

 Being against the extreme right-wing Zionist ideology is not anti-Semitic. However, in a lot of cases, Jews and Israel's government actions are being associated together. It is anti-zionism as a form of antisemitism. Free Palestine Sprayed on Synagogue Malaysia PM Calls Jews Hooked Noses , Blames Them For Creating The Troubles In Middle East , 170 Anti-Israel attacks on Jewish students

That's where people doubting Anti-Israel stances stems from because a lot of people do associate the two together. 

 

8 hours ago, alsemanche said:

 

- I've been seeing endless people scream (at me and at others) that we shouldn't include the Israeli people in our fight against Israel and that it's only the government. This is simply wrong. The government is obviously a huge part of the problem (if you want to look at the events of the past week only, they've targeted civilian buildings with missiles, murdered innocents in cold blood, and blocked medics from reaching the injured and extracting bodies from under the rubble). However, Zionist settlers have also been a huge part of the violence for years, and now more than ever it's becoming clear as day. Lynching mobs have been active, especially since last night. Zionists have been lynching Palestinians in the streets and in their cars. They have even broken into Palestinian homes and terrorized the families inside. They have been knocking on doors and marking them as Palestinian so that lynching mobs and the IDF can recognize and brutalize them. Palestinian shops are being stormed and destroyed by mobs of Zionists with the support of the IDF who is either simply watching and not intervening or actively participating in the lynching.

The Israeli government actively partakes in the crimes against Palestinians and so do settlers. That being said, a lot of settlers only live in the West Bank and although they are actively supporting the extreme-right Zionist approach, they are not involved in any lynches against Palestinians - they are breaking international law by living with their families there and they should be removed from these territories. So I think it's also important to not generalize all settlers to what you just mentioned. Not all Zionists are terrorists.

And outside of settlers, there are also Israeli citizens that live inside the 1967 borders.

So no, you shouldn't include all the Israeli people in the fight against Israel's actions because other than the fact that most of the civilians are not involved in the war, millions of them also disagree with the governments actions. 

 

Both governments are investing on the wrong things, ultimately leaving their people at risk and moving further away from a solution to all of this. Whether it is Hamas getting supplies of weapons by Iran and hiding it in Gaza schools Link or Israel investing in settlements in the West Bank Link 

What needs to happen is for leaders from both sides to return to the negotiation table, like they have before but failed, until they reach an agreement.

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GucciGa
34 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

“Oh it was fantastic!” said Lady Gaga in an interview published Friday by The Independent, talking about her September 13 performance in Tel Aviv. “Tel Aviv was magnificent. The world view of Israel is just not reality. It’s in a beautiful place, the people are in good spirits.”

It's not about kindness, it's about being a decent person and supporting people who are getting murdered every day. Even if she does support Palestine, it means nothing when she said that Israel is a beautiful place and the world's view is a misconception (which it's not, btw). Pop stars have a huge platforms that helps educate people and support those who need support. And Gaga uses her platform for activism, it's not like she only posts music stuff on her socials. I'm sure she could have spared 2.5 seconds of her time to support Palestine if she cared, but she clearly doesn't based on her statement. 

Is that all she said about Israel? Damn, the way y'all were talking it's like she was actively anti Palestine. She didn't mention politics at all in that quote.. It was just a polite comment about a country/city she didn't know much about. That's like when white people go to "Africa" and are shocked that it has modern facilities. A little ignorant, perhaps. But we're all guilty of that concerning some part of the world and you can't really know a place until you spend time there. 

 

 

She can if she wants to, but you shouldn't expect it of her. She doesn't have to comment on every single world matter. I don't think it's reasonable to demand she speaks out on every matter. It's her platform, and she can use it as she sees for. And just bc she doesn't speak out, doesn't mean she doesn't care. 

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alsemanche
5 minutes ago, GucciGa said:

Is that all she said about Israel? Damn, the way y'all were talking it's like she was actively anti Palestine. She didn't mention politics at all in that quote.. It was just a polite comment about a country/city she didn't know much about. That's like when white people go to "Africa" and are shocked that it has modern facilities. A little ignorant, perhaps. But we're all guilty of that concerning some part of the world and you can't really know a place until you spend time there. 

Endless celebrities who have never been there have spoken out in support of Palestine for years and condemned Israel. it's not about knowing the place, I've never been there either and would never go until Palestine is liberated. She's literally normalizing the existence of a settler colonial state and encouraging a positive view towards it. I'm sure she has enough access to information online to do her own research if she wanted to. Normalizing the existence of Israel makes anyone who partakes in it complicit to the violence. Not to mention that there were calls for her to cancel her concert there and boycott Israel but she ignored it (and so have endless celebrities, it's not just her). Meanwhile others like Lorde actually bothered caring enough to educate themselves and comply with the calls for boycott and cancel their shows there. There is no excuse. Period.     

Soft, soothing, and succulent // FOSSORA IS HERE
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XCX World
26 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

Sorry, I have to disagree again since both sides are not equal with power so the resolution will obviously favor Israel and allow the right-winged nationalists to continue their work.
I am not disregarding your opinion but I have a couple of jewish friends who went on the birthright trip and told me how Israelis are being indoctrinated that all of the lands are theirs (including West Bank and Gaza).  You can never reach peace with such a nationalist governmental indoctrination. 

While that is true there are also Palestinians who are being indoctrinated the same thing. Researches even found missleading and hate speach in Palestinians school books that are funded by the UN.  We can reach peace if we will start working towards it, but it requires a lot of work from both of the sides, since the conflict has been deeply rooted (even before 1948)

31 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

Are there any real loud voices in Israel against that? Since The right-wing has been in the government since forever no? 
 

I hope you and your family can stay safe :runhug: 

Thank you:hug: And yeah there are! The left wing in Israel are against the horrible actions done to the Palestinians by the government and they want to achieve peace. It's not stronger than the right wing but it's gaining some popularity lately.

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HuffsAhoy
20 minutes ago, GucciGa said:

Is that all she said about Israel? Damn, the way y'all were talking it's like she was actively anti Palestine. She didn't mention politics at all in that quote.. It was just a polite comment about a country/city she didn't know much about. That's like when white people go to "Africa" and are shocked that it has modern facilities. A little ignorant, perhaps. But we're all guilty of that concerning some part of the world and you can't really know a place until you spend time there. 

 

 

She can if she wants to, but you shouldn't expect it of her. She doesn't have to comment on every single world matter. I don't think it's reasonable to demand she speaks out on every matter. It's her platform, and she can use it as she sees for. And just bc she doesn't speak out, doesn't mean she doesn't care. 

This kind of blind loyalty to someone is frankly disturbing. :bear: If you can't handle a legitimate, mature, conversation about a topic such as this without downplaying people's valid arguments, maybe this particular thread isn't for you. 

You remind me that it's such a wonderful thing to love.
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coolninjaguy
4 minutes ago, HuffsAhoy said:

This kind of blind loyalty to someone is frankly disturbing. :bear: If you can't handle a legitimate, mature, conversation about a topic such as this without downplaying people's valid arguments, maybe this particular thread isn't for you. 

LITERALLY. the fact that people on here are taking settler-colonialism, genocide, and ethnic cleansing so lightly is highly disturbing. Palestine truly is the litmus test for these self-proclaimed “progressives” and “activists”.

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