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E MO TION

I'm probably gonna get hate for it but all of the #freepalestine and the stuff that happens on social media is so fake. Y'all clearly act like white savior bullshit and doesn't care at all about what's happening. Yes, Israel did a lot of bad actions, the stuff in Sheikh Jarrah included, but the y'all turn a blind eye to the rockets fired by Hamas and other terror attacks done by them, which are targeting unarmed civilians and killed 7 already. There is no right or bad side in this situation because both sides are doing dumb stuff. Israel doesn't do much towards peace while the Palestinians take most of Palestine money for terror purposes. What needs to happen is the 2 states solution, because both Jews and Arabs has deep history rooted in this land, but it looks like for some of y'all it's ok to evacute Jews out of their homes and land but not when it's Arabs (both are wrong btw!)

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Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only sol

Free Palestine. 

What has happened to Palestine can only be described as settler colonialism and ethnic cleansing. 

Aphroditus
17 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

What needs to happen is the 2 states solution, because both Jews and Arabs has deep history rooted in this land, but it looks like for some of y'all it's ok to evacute Jews out of their homes and land but not when it's Arabs (both are wrong btw!)

For the most people supporting Palestine on this forum, they never wanted jews to be evicted. 
 

To find a real solution, the regime in power (Israel) have to do the most work and start intiative. We don’t fail to see both sides but we can’t start having that conversation while the state with power to change is doing the opposite.

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E MO TION
6 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

For the most people supporting Palestine on this forum, they never wanted jews to be evicted. 
 

To find a real solution, the regime in power (Israel) have to do the most work and start intiative. We don’t fail to see both sides but we can’t start having that conversation while the state with power to change is doing the opposite.

both sides actually have to do work. The Palestinians and Hamas doesn't agree to recognize the state of Israel, so it's not possible to work towards the 2 states solution when both sides fail to recognize the other side 

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Aphroditus
2 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

both sides actually have to do work. The Palestinians and Hamas doesn't agree to recognize the state of Israel, so it's not possible to work towards the 2 states solution when both sides fail to recognize the other side 

In my opinion a two state solution won’t work. One state, not the Israeli Jewish states. It needs a lot of work indeed but giving a state almost 4 Billion$ in military funding is not helping.  If I am you (I assume you are form the US) , I would question my government why do we send 4 billion in MILITARY aid to any country?  

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Esteban
Posted (edited)

David Ben Gourion the first prime minister of Isreal after its creation said in private to Shimon Peres the 14th May 1948 " Today, they're dancing; tomorrow blood will be spilled. There will be a war" and next day war broke out and made the first victims....

UK and Lord Balfour wanted to create a national place for jew people in order to get help from USA during WWII and show his solidarity to jew communities of USA and UK.
But it was also a way to create a british colony next to Suez canal which was a very strategic point...
Then USA took advantage of that particular place in the arabic world and made Israel an outpost for its upcoming wars and economic profits.

What I want to say it's that, sadly, since its fundation Israel was meant to benefit to other countries too.

The were jews and arabs since a long time on that lands. You can't come and "create" a country with arbitrary boundaries like that... So once again this is a very tricky situation due to western countries

 

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E MO TION
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

In my opinion a two state solution won’t work. One state, not the Israeli Jewish states. It needs a lot of work indeed but giving a state almost 4 Billion$ in military funding is not helping.  If I am you (I assume you are form the US) , I would question my government why do we send 4 billion in MILITARY aid to any country?  

I'm from Israel actually, but I don't think one state will work. I know the situation and the sides from a close perspective, and both of the sides want a national state. Two nation state is not really practical because of the deep rooted conflict, also it kind of contrasting the idea of why a Jewish state was created. My ideal solution is having two states and Jerusalem be under international regime, since neither sides can acclaim it fully

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Aphroditus
15 minutes ago, E MO TION said:

know the situation and the sides from a close perspective, and both of the sides want a national state.

Dont you think this is the main problem? Two states or one state will never work under nationalists being the main voice, no?
Sorry if I it is too personal, what is your opinion on the illegal expulsion of people from the West Bank? 

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alsemanche
Posted (edited)

Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only solution is decolonization. No two-state solution, no peace treaties, nothing. Decolonization.
I frankly don't care what anyone replies to this and I won't be contributing any further to the thread (probably) because I've been doing that for days and it's led nowhere. But here goes.

-Let's start with the first issue with this thread: framing this as a conflict. Conflict implies that there are two equal sides arguing/fighting over something. This isn't the case for Palestine: there are no equal sides, only one of the strongest armies in the world (the Israeli one, that is) fighting a people who barely has anything to fight back with. You wanna talk about the missiles that allegedly rained on Israelis? Barely any of them even landed. Why? Because Israel has the technology to shoot them down way before they land. And how do they have this technology? Thanks to the US (who btw finances them and trains their soldiers). So yeah, there are no equal sides here. One is practicing genocide, ethnic cleansing, expulsion and displacement of people from their homes and their land, while the other is doing its best to fight back and decolonize, even if it meant offering thousands of martyrs. 

-Let me also point something out: opposing the settler colonial 'state' of Israel is not anti-Semitic. I know this will pop up sooner or later, as arguments with Zionists always end up with that accusation being thrown around. Opposing Zionism is opposing a right-wing ideology that is founded on colonial ideals and that has genocide at its very core. This is what I and millions are opposing, not the Jewish people. Jewish people existed in the Palestinian land long before the Zionist project was enforced, and they lived peacefully with their Arab neighbors (and when I say neighbors, I mean next door neighbors, not neighboring countries). Then the colonial project started and all hell broke loose on the original owners of the land.

-Bringing up the Holocaust as a reason to justify the existence of Israel and to call people out for being 'anti-Semitic' is, to say the least, abhorrent and disrespectful. The Holocaust was a horrible tragedy and no one deserved to be exterminated that way (or any other way) for being Jewish. So let's not bring that up as a  reason to justify a colonial state that's practicing ethnic cleansing and genocide on the daily in one way or another (more on that below).

-What we are witnessing today is nothing new. The people of Palestine has been constantly brutalized and ethnically cleansed for YEARS, with flare ups being more violent than others. But the process has been going on for a long time and aggressions haven't stopped since the forceful establishment of the colonial project. We have social media to thank for the amount of disseminated information we are currently witnessing. Sadly, not even this is enough because social media platforms (especially Facebook and Instagram) have been doing the most to censor information about Palestine. Posts are being taken down, accounts are being locked, algorithms are being manipulated to hide crucial information. My own Instagram stories have been receiving less than half the amount of view they used to get ever since I started sharing posts about the Palestinian struggle. Social media companies are complicit and need to be called out and fought against too. In the past few hours, Facebook shut down a group that has 130k+ members because it's in support of Palestine.

-Speaking of social media and information, Western (and non-Western) media has played a huge role is fabricating information and manipulating narratives. Since last week, headlines have been incriminating Palestine and victimizing Israel over and over again. Numbers are being faked, or even reversed, to paint a reality in which Palestine is the aggressor and Israel is the victim. This is why we NEED to keep spreading information from alternative media. Social media is crucial here: amid media blackout in some regions of Palestine and fabricated information by the IDF, it is our duty to make sure that the Palestinian voices are amplified and that information is spread. 

-Now let's return to the violence. I've been seeing endless people scream (at me and at others) that we shouldn't include the Israeli people in our fight against Israel and that it's only the government. This is simply wrong. The government is obviously a huge part of the problem (if you want to look at the events of the past week only, they've targeted civilian buildings with missiles, murdered innocents in cold blood, and blocked medics from reaching the injured and extracting bodies from under the rubble). However, Zionist settlers have also been a huge part of the violence for years, and now more than ever it's becoming clear as day. Lynching mobs have been active, especially since last night. Zionists have been lynching Palestinians in the streets and in their cars. They have even broken into Palestinian homes and terrorized the families inside. They have been knocking on doors and marking them as Palestinian so that lynching mobs and the IDF can recognize and brutalize them. Palestinian shops are being stormed and destroyed by mobs of Zionists with the support of the IDF who is either simply watching and not intervening or actively participating in the lynching. This is all reminiscent of a very particular political ideology that I will refrain from naming because I know it will be taken out of context and I will get attacked for it.  These are all undeniable facts and there is endless documentation of them online, especially from last night. I will refrain  from posting them here because they are very graphic but if anyone wants to see what's happening, send me a DM. 

-Israel has said that no ceasefire will be implemented for the time being and that they will continue to attack Gaza and other areas. They have threatened to keep going until there is "complete quiet" (i.e. until they "flatten the strip"). An Israeli official tweeted that the IDF has approved a "Gaza group invasion" before deleting the tweet and changing it to "Gaza ground operations" (tweets in spoiler below). What is to come in the following hours/days will be a bloodbath and Palestinians will have no one to protect them but themselves. Biden's support of Israel last night will only amplify the violence because they know that they have the green light from the US government now. Again, this isn't a "both sides" issue, this is a colonial state inflicting genocide and ethnic cleansing on a people that has barely any arms to defend themselves, with the support of its allies who finance it.

Spoiler

 

 

-I can talk about this for days but I unfortunately have academic obligations to attend to. As we approach the memory of the Nakba day, it is our job as allies of the Palestinian people to amplify their voices and stand by their side the best way we can. We can do so SO much from afar. Share the truth online and make sure you inform people of the violence happening in Palestine. Use correct terminology and semantics and call out news outlets for their fake headlines and manipulative narratives. Amid social media censorship, it's important now more than ever to keep sharing posts and spreading the word. There are also protests happening all over the world (not well covered by the media, of course) calling out Israel for its crimes and supporting the Palestinian cause, so participate in those if you can. Check the thread in the spoiler for dates and times in many cities (mostly US and Canada but I'll post more if I find comprehensive threads).

Spoiler

 

Note: I have often called Israel an apartheid state, but this is actually not accurate and I stand corrected. "Apartheid is built on segregation. Settler colonialism is built on erasure" (not my own words), and this is incredibly accurate. So let's call Israel what is it from now on: a settler colonial project. 

Edited by alsemanche
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E MO TION
54 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

Dont you think this is the main problem? Two states or one state will never work under nationalists being the main voice, no?

I'm not really sure what do you mean

54 minutes ago, Aphroditus said:

Sorry if I it is too personal, what is your opinion on the illegal expulsion of people from the West Bank? 

Against it when it's towards civilians, but Israel mostly do targeted bombing of Hamas leaders.

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RAMROD

 

 

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(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ✧*:・゚ やれやれだわ (*´艸`*) ♡♡♡
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alsemanche

Now THIS is how you show support. A certain Rihanna idiot can't relate with her idiotic post. 

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E MO TION
4 minutes ago, alsemanche said:

Two pages into this thread and it's already full of misinformation and fake "solutions" that don't even tackle the real problem aka the fact that this is a case of settler colonialism and the only solution is decolonization. No two-state solution, no peace treaties, nothing. Decolonization.
I frankly don't care what anyone replies to this and I won't be contributing any further to the thread (probably) because I've been doing that for days and it's led nowhere. But here goes.

-Let's start with the first issue with this thread: framing this as a conflict. Conflict implies that there are two equal sides arguing/fighting over something. This isn't the case for Palestine: there are no equal sides, only one of the strongest armies in the world (the Israeli one, that is) fighting a people who barely has anything to fight back with. You wanna talk about the missiles that allegedly rained on Israelis? Barely any of them even landed. Why? Because Israel has the technology to shoot them down way before they land. And how do they have this technology? Thanks to the US (who btw finances them and trains their soldiers). So yeah, there are no equal sides here. One is practicing genocide, ethnic cleansing, expulsion of people from their homes and their land, while the other is doing its best to fight back and decolonize, even if it meant offering thousands of martyrs. 

-Let me also point something out: opposing the settler colonial 'state' of Israel is not anti-Semitic. I know this will pop up sooner or later, as arguments with Zionists always end up with that accusation being thrown around. Opposing Zionism is opposing a right-wing ideology that is founded on colonial ideals and that has genocide at its very core. This is what I and millions are opposing, not the Jewish people. Jewish people existed in the Palestinian land long before the Zionist project was enforced, and they lived peacefully with their Arab neighbors (and when I say neighbors, I mean next door neighbors, not neighboring countries). Then the colonial project started and all hell broke loose on the original owners of the land.

-Bringing up the Holocaust as a reason to justify the existence of Israel and to call people out for being 'anti-Semitic' is, to say the least, abhorrent and disrespectful. The Holocaust was a horrible tragedy and no one deserved to be exterminated that way (or any other way) for being Jewish. So let's not bring that up as a  reason to justify a colonial state that's practicing ethnic cleansing and genocide on the daily in one way or another (more on that below).

-What we are witnessing today is nothing new. The people of Palestine has been constantly brutalized and ethnically cleansed for YEARS, with flare ups being more violent than others. But the process has been going on for a long time and aggressions haven't stopped since the forceful establishment of the colonial project. We have social media to thank for the amount of disseminated information we are currently witnessing. Sadly, not even this is enough because social media platforms (especially Facebook and Instagram) have been doing the most to censor information about Palestine. Posts are being taken down, accounts are being locked, algorithms are being manipulated to hide crucial information. My own Instagram stories have been receiving less than half the amount of view they used to get ever since I started sharing posts about the Palestinian struggle. Social media companies are complicit and need to be called out and fought against too. In the past few hours, Facebook shut down a group that has 130k+ members because it's in support of Palestine.

-Speaking of social media and information, Western (and non-Western) media has played a huge role is fabricating information and manipulating narratives. Since last week, headlines have been incriminating Palestine and victimizing Israel over and over again. Numbers are being faked, or even reversed, to paint a reality in which Palestine is the aggressor and Israel is the victim. This is why we NEED to keep spreading information from alternative media. Social media is crucial here: amid media blackout in some regions of Palestine and fabricated information by the IDF, it is our duty to make sure that the Palestinian voices are amplified and that information is spread. 

-Now let's return to the violence. I've been seeing endless people scream (at me and at others) that we shouldn't include the Israeli people in our fight against Israel and that it's only the government. This is simply wrong. Zionist settlers have been a huge part of the violence for years, and now more than ever it's becoming clear as day. Lynching mobs have been active, especially since last night. Zionists have been lynching Palestinians in the streets and in their cars. They have even broken into Palestinian homes and terrorized the families inside. They have been knocking on doors and marking them as Palestinian so that lynching mobs and the IDF can recognize and brutalize them. Palestinian shops are being stormed and destroyed by mobs of Zionists with the support of the IDF who is either simply watching and not intervening or actively participating in the lynching. This is all reminiscent of a very particular political ideology that I will refrain from naming because I know it will be taken out of context and I will get attacked for it.  These are all undeniable facts and there is endless documentation of them online, especially from last night. I will refrain  from posting them here because they are very graphic but if anyone wants to see what's happening, send me a DM. 

-Israel has said that no ceasefire will be implemented for the time being and that they will continue to attack Gaza and other areas. They have threatened to keep going until there is "complete quiet" (i.e. until they "flatten the strip"). An Israeli official tweeted that the IDF has approved a "Gaza group invasion" before deleting the tweet and changing it to "Gaza ground operations" (tweets in spoiler below). What is to come in the following hours/days will be a bloodbath and Palestinians will have no one to protect them but themselves. Biden's support of Israel last night will only amplify the violence because they know that they have the green light from the US government now. Again, this isn't a "both sides" issue, this is a colonial state inflicting genocide and ethnic cleansing on a people that has barely any arms to defend themselves, with the support of its allies who finance it.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

-I can talk about this for days but I unfortunately have academic obligations to attend to. As we approach the memory of the Nakba day, it is our job as allies of the Palestinian people to amplify their voices and stand by their side the best way we can. We can do so SO much from afar. Share the truth online and make sure you inform people of the violence happening in Palestine. Use correct terminology and semantics and call out news outlets for their fake headlines and manipulative narratives. Amid social media censorship, it's important now more than ever to keep sharing posts and spreading the word. There are also protests happening all over the world (not well covered by the media, of course) calling out Israel for its crimes and supporting the Palestinian cause, so participate in those if you can. Check the thread in the spoiler for dates and times in many cities (mostly US and Canada but I'll post more if I find comprehensive threads).

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

You say that the thread is "already full of misinformation" but you also say "missiles that allegedly rained on Israelis"? It shows how biased you are and that you're comment is full of bs. I'm from the south of Israel. I haven't left my house in 3 days because of fear that an alarm will catch me with no safe place to hide. 7 unarmed civilians died. But I guess that's fine because of "colonialism" and stuff right? Yeah no it shows how fake and hypocrite the "anti-zionist" are and that this is a new word for being anti-semitic. 

I would've made a more detailed comment regarding your points, but I guess it's pointless when you can excuse Israelis being killed. Have fun with your academic obligations.

 

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Pennywise

The very existence of such a thread is, frankly, offensive. When you frame it as a "conflict", it implies that there are two equal (or close-to-equal at least) sides. There aren't. @alsemanche has explained it brilliantly, so I won't talk more on that.

This thread won't get anywhere except to give members lots of warning points. Maybe that IS the point, though :oprah:

YOUR GOD IS NOT HERE MICHAEL NOR WILL HE EVER BE
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Melech
Posted (edited)

Israel will exists, as Palestine should. 

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