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Are we living through the end of "Diva Worship"?


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Bebe
7 minutes ago, elijahfan said:

Why one type of « worship » should necessarily replace another? I sure hope strong female figures will always be in fashion and celebrated. When it comes to being shamelessly yourself, there’s room for everyone.

I sure hope female figures will always be in fashion and celebrated too.

Despite what it may seem like on sites like these, data shows that artists like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Cardi B, Ariana Grande have largely female audiences.

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It makes sense that most females gravitate to female artists and most males gravitate to male artists as they are the people they relate to.

A world in which gay people start gravitating more to queer artists doesn't mean that they will stop enjoying female artists or that female artists will cease to exist.

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Nah, I mean its great that there are more gay artists, but from a purely musical/sonic point of view, there's always been something that just draws me more towards female voices over male voices. 

Nope. ‘There is an increasing amount of openly gay artists’   These boys ruled the world, and still gay men flocked to their gals.   Regardless of same

For those who are unfamiliar with the term of "Diva Worship" it's basically the tendency for gay man to stan female "Diva's" whether older artists such as Diana Ross, Cher, Barbra Streisand, Bette Mid

boyerased

Great points! We’ll see… I also think that diva worship has phases and periods. Maybe this period it’s not that relevant but years from now it might be again.

FUNK ME DOWNTOWN.
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the Devil of Pop

More representation and support for gay artists is a good thing, but it's fallacious and somewhat sexist to assume it must come at the expense of cis female artists. There's enough room for everyone :hug:

Edited by the Devil of Pop
How can I protect something so perfect without evil?
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Living
21 minutes ago, Bebe said:


Absolutely, but show me a song from any of the above male artists that explored gay relationships and/or gay sex?  They where either gay or presented in a strongly queer way but it's hard to have the same level of escapism when the gay or queer male artists are either in the closet or are unable to express their sexuality explicitly in their work.

 

 

 

Let’s not forget the ones who came before x

Edited by Living
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Bebe
Just now, Italian said:

You raise some good points but I don't get why more gay representation in gay male singers would necessarily lead to gay men liking female artists less?

 


I don't necessarily believe that future generations of gay men will stop liking female artists, but that (with more, and better, representation) there will be less of a need to project fantasies and find escapism and validation in female artists and will instead be able to relate to actual queer, and expressively queer, artists.

I'm sure gay men of the future will still relate to women and female artists but, as homosexuality becomes more normalised, some of the more intense identification with female artists will be lost as they will be able to project themselves onto artists that are even more like them.

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Chromatikitten

I feel like it's natural instinct for queer people to feel more drawn to embracing and looking up to non-patriarchal figures aka Women

She's meditating guys — She's died
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RAMROD

If anything, it will be more balanced.

 

Kids in first world countries today have better luxury in  coming out and showing their trueself being queer. And that also reflected into the queer male artists that is not ashamed to be showing their true self in full glory, and that makes them relatable to their young and queer audience. Something that not happening for us who are in our 30s and above right now. Things were much more lowkey back then for us bwcause we rather be safe from harm than being so flaming.

But fret not, IMHO the gays will still have affinity into the pop divas. Look at all these young and promising female singers and rappers; Billie, Olivia, Madison Beer,Dixie, Doja Cat, Meghan, among others, these people are the ones that will lead the movement next, and already building a lot of fans from people their age and younger. 

(ノ◕ヮ◕)ノ✧*:・゚ やれやれだわ (*´艸`*) ♡♡♡
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Bebe
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Living said:

 

 

 Let’s not forget the ones who came before x


I'm not forgetting the ones who came before, I mentioned them in OP, I just see a difference in the examples you have produced to the examples I have.

While Queen and Frankie Goes To Hollywood are progressive towards LGBTQI+ representation, even for todays pop standards, none of the examples you just brought up meet the criteria I asked for :shrug:

I am aware of the promotion behind Relax (Don't do it) and the controversy it caused, but lyrically it is not explicitly gay by any means. 

The best example is Break Free, but the drag can be taken as comical for straight audiences and once again the lyrics (while relatable to gay audiences) hardly inspire the kind of escapism offered by the complete sexual/romantic freedom of Divas. 

We haven't been in this space culturally before and while Lil Nas X stands on the shoulders of the, absolutely groundbreaking, giants that came before; he represents a sexual liberty and explicit homosexuality that hasn't really been represented before.
 

Edited by Bebe
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Bebe
4 minutes ago, RAMROD said:

If anything, it will be more balanced.

 

Kids in first world countries today have better luxury in  coming out and showing their trueself being queer. And that also reflected into the queer male artists that is not ashamed to be showing their true self in full glory, and that makes them relatable to their young and queer audience. Something that not happening for us who are in our 30s and above right now. Things were much more lowkey back then for us bwcause we rather be safe from harm than being so flaming.

But fret not, IMHO the gays will still have affinity into the pop divas. Look at all these young and promising female singers and rappers; Billie, Olivia, Madison Beer,Dixie, Doja Cat, Meghan, among others, these people are the ones that will lead the movement next, and already building a lot of fans from people their age and younger. 


I think the artists you mentioned are the next wave of "gay icons" and "Diva's" and I agree that gay men will always have an affinity with female artists, but in a future world in which there are a number of explicitly gay and queer artists writing love songs and sexual anthems with the same level of popularity as those women do you think pop forums like ATRL will be focused more on female artists or on the queer artists they relate to?

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Living
9 minutes ago, Bebe said:


I'm not forgetting the ones who came before, I mentioned them in OP, I just see a difference in the examples you have produced to the examples I have.

While Queen and Frankie Goes To Hollywood are progressive towards LGBTQI+ representation, even for todays pop standards, none of the examples you just brought up meet the criteria I asked for :shrug:

I am aware of the promotion behind Relax (Don't do it) and the controversy it caused, but lyrically it is not explicitly gay by any means. 

The best example is Break Free, but the drag can be taken as comical for straight audiences and once again the lyrics (while relatable to gay audiences) hardly inspire the kind of escapism offered by the complete sexual/romantic freedom of Divas. 

We haven't been in this space culturally before and while Lil Nas X stands on the shoulders of the, absolutely groundbreaking, giants that came before; he represents a sexual liberty and explicit homosexuality that hasn't really been represented before.
 

I think Lil Nas X in his new video actually does more to harm us in mainstream media tbh. I know this thread isn’t about my personal opinion on his new video but.. it’s not good.

So much hard work and fantastic representation, including many other such a Ru who before drag race was a very successful artist in the US, has put in the work and I think does a better job then many of their contemporaries today. 
 

again, IMO.

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Lucas
1 hour ago, Bebe said:

we have had very queen male performers before (Think David Bowie or Harry Styles

I can't with all the people acting like Harry Styles is revolutionary or something :toofunny: he wore a dress once or something and everybody thinks he fully ended toxic masculinity & inequality and freed the whole world

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Bebe
Just now, Living said:

I think Lil Nas X in his new video actually does more to harm us in mainstream media tbh. I know this thread isn’t about my personal opinion on his new video but.. it’s not good.

So much hard work and fantastic representation, including many other such a Ru who before drag race was a very successful artist in the US, has put in the work and I think does a better job then many of their contemporaries today. 
 

again, IMO.


Regardless of your personal opinion of Lil Nas X, he currently has the #1 song on billboard in which he references  the gay film Call me by your Name, specifically gender's his lover as male, and explicitly references a gay sexual act.

I don't think the video will win over any christian conservatives, but who cares honestly. I don't want all gay representation to be trying to still fit in with heteronormative expectations. There is hopefully room for a diverse range of gay artists in the same way you have explicitly sexual female artists and more singer songwriter types.

Either way, when I say "acts like Lil Nas X" I don't mean carbon copies - I mean gay artists they are able to sing about their own perspective including loving the same gender, breaking up with the same gender, having sex with the same gender.

 

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Bebe
Just now, Lucas said:

I can't with all the people acting like Harry Styles is revolutionary or something :toofunny: he wore a dress once or something and everybody thinks he fully ended toxic masculinity & inequality and freed the whole world

Don't think I, or anyone, is doing that... He's just one of the more recognisable examples of a contemporary male artist that is willing to be queer in his presentation by wearing blouses, skirts or dresses while not explicitly identifying as gay.

Lil Uzi and Young Thug are other examples but I didn't want to stick purely to hip-hop as I didn't think they would be as recognisable as Harry Styles to a demographic like this.

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KanyeWest

I think so tbh

Now we will clone ourselves and become the diva instead

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Kanye West Is Blonde And Gone
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Trixie Mattel
54 minutes ago, Bebe said:

I agree, I prefer female voices too - but do you think it is possible that we are are more likely to appreciate female voices because we are more likely to listen to female artists for all the above reasons?

Many black youth would tell you there is something they "just prefer" about the sound of rap & rnb. Is it maybe related to the fact that they are more likely to relate to the largely black artists, their subject matter, what they look like and the fact that that's what many of these kids would expose themselves to listening to?

While you may feel naturally drawn towards female voices, how much of that is exposure? 

You raise a good point, but a couple of things:

1. I normally don't listen to music for the lyrical content or subject matter, but instead for the way the song is composed or the mood or cadence of the song itself. Basically beat over lyrics. I actually tend to listen to more instrumental songs over songs with vocals. So music for me isn't really something that I can "relate to", its always been more about the way I experience or feel it sonically.

2. And when it comes to vocals I consider them to be an instrument, of which I prefer the female voice over the male voice, kind of like how someone might prefer a saxophone over a trumpet, its possible that that preference may be due to exposure, but I personally don't think so because:

3. I am pretty sure my initial preference for female voices is more nature than nurture. Why? Because growing up all of my cousins listened to either alternative, rock or metal music by Male Singers and I couldn't relate to any of it, even though I grew up around it. I do however remember really liking Barbie Girl by Aqua at a young age and generic house music and having no idea why, I just liked it. And there was certainly a pattern of me listening to similar... overtly theatrical songs at that age. The thing is, all of this was happening long before I had any sort of idea regarding my sexuality (long before puberty) which leads me to believe, as stated above, that my preference for female voices is more genetic than exposure to my environment.

Edited by Trixie Mattel
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