Two beheaded in Nice, France mass stabbing suspected terror attack

[Admin 19,681]

5 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Also love that we've let this narrative form that Muslim-majority countries are violent and barbaric. 

Y'all are something else. 

Doesn't look like it's a "narrative":

7 minutes ago, Pennywise said:

Like, do y'all know what would happen if I publicly criticized Islam -and it somehow got publicized out of my personal accounts - in Turkey, a supposedly secular country? I'd have cops on my door the same day. I'd probably get arrested. I could potentially get fired, not mentioning the social attacks at all. The ONLY reason I am as free as I am is that thankfully I live near one of the most leftist, atheist, un-religious universities in the country. That's all. That's literally the only reason I feel safe here as a fem, gay person. So believe me when I say I am talking from experience, and not any pre-conceived views. 

 

[Pennywise 14,476]

1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

But your, Admin's, and others anti-Muslim rhetoric is dangerous and only serves to further divide us. 

I know I'm not exactly being non-divisive, but I honestly don't know what else to say. But I feel like I can't NOT say anything, and what I have to say is not particularly nice, too. Like, I have no personal vendetta against any individuals - I believe religion should be individualistic anyway -  just the life I've been forced into. But what is the alternative to this rhetoric? It is obvious that simply condemning things don't work. 

I believe this rhetoric should be two-sided, because most of the problems we have regarding religion today stems from religious intolerance of ALL  Abrahamic religions and not only Islam. But I can't really talk about the other religions because I have not been persecuted under them. I don't know them as well. 


 

[Admin 19,681]

1 minute ago, lego said:

Sorry, but you were talking about lack of condemnation from muslim leaders (not to mention they’re mostly dictators), even infamous Chechen leader and it seems like they all condemned recent terror attacks in France. You knew that, but instead you claimed they all support it and people who live in their countries do too. 

There is a lack of condemnation.

Him saying "I condemn terrorism" doesn't mean he actually condemns it when he proceeds to justify it the following day.

The fact that you would go as far as to defend one of the most vile and dangerous people alive is not doing you any favors. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Florian said:

Freedom of Speech does not mean you're allowed to say whatever you want, and I would not be here for that very American-centered definition of it. Like everything you have limits that should not be crossed for the good of everyone.

I do not want a country where you can incite to hate and get away with it because of "Freedom of Speech". Imagine our PM saying it's normal to kill millions of Malaysian people.

I do not want a country where straight up lies and diffamation is allowed because of "Freedom of Speech"

I do not want a country where my private life and my private pictures can be exposed everywhere in the name of "Freedom of Speech"

I do not want a country where people can say they want to kill me because of my identity because they are free to tell whatever they want under "Freedom of Speech"

I can keep going with exceptions going from simple things like medical or professionnal secret to not allowing revenge ****.

----

About the drawing I would say that most of the French (and I'm talking BIG majority) do not like Charlie Hebdo drawings (any of them) as they are 90% of the time tasteless. I never read Charlie Hebdo for that reason. However it's not because we don't like them that they don't have the right to exist. And if we're protective of them it's not because we like Charlie Hebdo per say but because in the bigger picture they represent our Freedom of Speech.

About those specific drawings, do I find them tasteless ? Yes. Do I think they're inconsiderate toward the Muslim Community ? Yes. Are they attacking muslims people ? No. It's at best rude. It's just as cheap of a blasphemy as Gaga eating a rosary. They did it for shocking value and it worked.

The examples you used is not part of free speech even in America.

I understand why France defends Charlie Hebdo, and I do myself even as a Muslim. But my point was what he did does harm Muslims (which im fine with) just like denying the holocaust harms Jews. Why is speech that harms Jews illegal in France, but speech that harms Muslims allowed?

Its just something that everyone I talked to in my country brought up, so I wanted to see what people here have to say about it.

Edited October 30, 2020 by Guest

[MJHolland 12,226]

4 minutes ago, Admin said:

Doesn't look like it's a "narrative":

 

^^^ This is actually horrifying to read coming from you. I think that's a terrible and very hurtful thing to say. 

 

5 minutes ago, Pennywise said:

I know I'm not exactly being non-divisive, but I honestly don't know what else to say. But I feel like I can't NOT say anything, and what I have to say is not particularly nice, too. Like, I have no personal vendetta against any individuals - I believe religion should be individualistic anyway -  just the life I've been forced into. But what is the alternative to this rhetoric? It is obvious that simply condemning things don't work. 

I believe this rhetoric should be two-sided, because most of the problems we have regarding religion today stems from religious intolerance of ALL  Abrahamic religions and not only Islam. But I can't really talk about the other religions because I have not been persecuted under them. I don't know them as well. 


 

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm afraid I don't have very good answers for you. 

All I can tell you is that the answer is not to put the blame for these attacks on all 1.8 billion Muslims.

My of my best friends, a peaceful Muslim who would never hurt a fly, suffered a senseless violent hate crime walking come from a mosque after 9/11 (he's OK now but will have PTSD the rest of his life). I don't want to see that happen to anyone, just like I don't want to see these attacks in France.

 

[lego 44,011]

2 minutes ago, Admin said:

There is a lack of condemnation.

Him saying "I condemn terrorism" doesn't mean he actually condemns it when he proceeds to justify it the following day.

The fact that you would go as far as to defend one of the most vile and dangerous people alive is not doing you any favors. 

 

They literally all gave statements as soon as it happened.

Whether they’re honest or not is irrelevant because they’re not good people, they’re authoritarian leaders. But you lied and said no one in muslim world is condemning these killings. That was false and same goes for your generalization. 

I did not defend kadyrov, this is another falsehood. The fact you’re admin of this site and breaking your own rules, shitting on your members also doesn’t do you any favors. But you don’t care about your reputation, I know you just want me out of here. One less annoying Muslim. 

 

 

[Admin 19,681]

4 minutes ago, lego said:

They literally all gave statements as soon as it happened.

That doesn't mean anything.

4 minutes ago, lego said:

Whether they’re honest or not is irrelevant because they’re not good people

I never said anything about their honesty, what are you talking about? I said that they openly defended the killings despite "giving statements"

5 minutes ago, lego said:

But you lied and said no one in muslim world is condemning these killings.

Where did I say that?

6 minutes ago, lego said:

I know you just want me out of here

I just want you to stop responding to me with lies, that would be nice.

[poeticprose 24]

Of course this thread is full of americans defending Islam. lol It's so transparent what your priorities REALLY are.

But I'm glad to see gay people from islamic countries sharing their experiencies. I live under Bolsonaro's government in Brasil and it's been terrible not only for queer people but for the native people, our nature, our economy, the poor, etc; queer people here need to live under constant attacks of evangelicals but I cannot imagine how a gay person lives in a islamic country. It sounds like hell to me.

And I want Macron to KEEP fighting his fight! He is fighting an very important fight. What he needs to do now is to protect the french population because these barbarians are going to retaliate.

Wish all the best for the french monsters and all the french people in general. I adore your country! lol

Edited October 30, 2020 by poeticprose

[Florian 17,836]

35 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

The examples you used is not part of free speech even in America.

I understand why France defends Charlie Hebdo, and I do myself even as a Muslim. But my point was what he did does harm Muslims (which im fine with) just like denying the holocaust harms Jews. Why is speech that harms Jews illegal in France, but speech that harms Muslims allowed?

Its just something that everyone I talked to in my country brought up, so I wanted to see what people here have to say about it.

I don't want to talk about anyone else's feeling as I myself feel "harmed" when I read half the stuff people say about my country in those kind of thread about laïcité. I rightfully understand that Muslim can be shocked when seeing those drawings.

I think we can both agree that those drawing aren't necessary. But we also both agree that there is a difference between drawing a symbol of a religion and denying the slaughter of 50% of the believer of a religion. Also to be clear, it is not a specifity of the Jewish religion (you cannot deny the Tutsi genocide in Rwanda for example)

A drawing isn't "harmful" per say (idk how to properly find the propre word I want, excuse me for that), saying "All muslims are terrorists" is a crime in France. Just as an example we have a far right personality who got sentenced because he opposed the "Real french" to the "Muslim immigrants" saying they commited the attacks of 2015 and saying "the colonized became colonizers"

I hope I'm finding the good words to put out my thoughts

Édit: a drawing can be harmful and even illegal. I'm refering about the Charlie Hebdo ones

Edited October 30, 2020 by Florian

[MJHolland 12,226]

9 minutes ago, poeticprose said:

Of course this thread is full of americans defending Islam. lol It's so transparent what your priorities REALLY are.

I don't care about Islam or any other religion for that matter.

What I care about is seeing blatant religious persecution. I jumped into this thread because some users got 20+ likes on their posts that said ALL MUSLIMS were responsible for these attacks. 

I see that as wrong and dangerous. 

But please, elaborate on what you think my priorities really are I would love to hear this. 

[Admin 19,681]

1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

I jumped into this thread because some users got 20+ likes on their posts that said ALL MUSLIMS were responsible for these attacks. 

Nobody said that. 

What happened is that a poster shared their experience living in an Islamic country (which you probably have never been to) and you jumped in to invalidate their experience and call them "islamophobic".

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, poeticprose said:

I came here just to post an observation and my own experiences. I'm not here to argue back and forth forever.

The only person that can elaborate anything about your priorities is you, dude. But honestly, I have a curiosity to know why a gay men have to defend so fervently a POS religion like Islam. I try to find a reason but I can't. lol

@MJHolland is clearly not defending Islam in any of their comments. They are just against islamophobia. 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Guest