Aphrodizy26 6 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Pennywise said: wait I didn't know that, what the-Ā Yes. It was for his original makeup brand called āLipstick Nazi,ā so there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKANK 14,288 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Ā Ā 46 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said: You said that you liked him because heās an āambassador to glamourā. How is that not idolizing? Itās clear you didnāt like it which is why you made your original comment in the first place. You like the way Jeffree looks, didnāt like that people called him evil, then said thatĀ Ā ānot everyone has to be a good person.ā You can try to spin and deflect all you like but that is obviouslyĀ what happened. Yes they should be able to exist in our culture so that you can idolize evil people and not feel bad about it. Weāve been through this already. Once again Iāll take your word for it. Nobody is going off on Gaga for her relationship with Coco, so youāre arguing with yourself there.Ā Youāre the one who brought it up in the first placeĀ as a deflection to your argument.Ā Itās ok to be mad on the internet over someone elseās opinions but at some point you should be able to realize when the conversation has run its course. Itās obvious that we are not going to agree, I donāt even know why you quoted me in the first place. Ā Ā Ā I brought up Coco because she is an evil figure in the beauty industry who Gaga has publicly gushed over. I thought that comparison would help you understand my point, that not all public figures who hold value have to be good people. I was under the impression that this was a respectful exchange of ideas, but if you feel differently, you're welcome to pop me on the list of users you ignore. Ā Ā Ā 36 minutes ago, CautiousLurker said: Their personalities are not in the public eye, and haven't been for a long time - Jeffree's is, so again the comparison is disingenuous... And no, you can't enjoy the 'dirty little place' without being complicit in supporting whatever bigotry comes out of it - for one that's not what it amounts to in practice, case in point you have spend a good portion of the thread defending JeffreeĀ - even tho you insist it's not what you're doing, it is... Whether you're ok with that trade-off is up to you, it very much a trade-off tho... Ā Some people, Gaga included, can appreciate the role certain problematic figures in our culture play, without being complicit in whatever is problematic about their character. For example, being honored to collaborate with Lagerfeld doesn't mean Gaga is complicit with Lagerfeld's nastiness toward Syrian refugees. You are absolutely right that Jeffree has a larger presence in our culture then Waters or Lagerfeld. So, in that way, the comparison falls short. You are also right about there being a trade off defending him. I don't care enough about Jeffree to have wasted this much time talking about him, and probably wont do it again. lmao Loath him, love him, or fall somewhere in between - he is certainly an interesting queer character. Ā 7 minutes ago, M Monstre said: Why does this have a lot of likes? Ā Public figures should strive to be good people. Of course not all of them are going to be good, but why willingly stan someone who's as bad as Jeffree?Ā His androgyny, sure, I guess brings more of a spotlight to more androgynous people, but that's a really low bar to set if y'all are gonna just excuse someone's behavior for the sake of making the LGBTQ community look good. The saying "all press is good press" isn't necessarily true. Ā No one is more surprised then me that it has likes. Personally, I think that we should not hold all public figures to the same standard. The pedestal we put a politician on should be very different then the pedestal we put a make up guru on. But, I think that's an idea most people may disagree with. Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suuus 5,632 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, SKANK said: Ā Ā Ā Ā I brought up Coco because she is an evil figure in the beauty industry who Gaga has publicly gushed over. I thought that comparison would help you understand my point, that not all public figures who hold value have to be good people. I was under the impression that this was a respectful exchange of ideas, but if you feel differently, you're welcome to pop me on the list of users you ignore. Ā Ā Ā Ā Some people, Gaga included, can appreciate the role certain problematic figures in our culture play, without being complicit in whatever is problematic about their character. For example, being honored to collaborate with Lagerfeld doesn't mean Gaga is complicit with Lagerfeld's nastiness toward Syrian refugees. You are absolutely right that Jeffree has a larger presence in our culture then Waters or Lagerfeld. So, in that way, the comparison falls short. You are also right about there being a trade off being a bit too much. I don't care enough about Jeffree to have wasted this much time talking about him. lmao Loath him, love him, or fall somewhere in between - he is certainly an interesting queer character. Ā Ā No one is more surprised then me that it has likes. Personally, I think that we should not hold all public figures to the same standard. The pedestal we put a politician on should be very different then the pedestal we put a make up guru on. But, I think that's an idea most people may disagree with. Ā Exactly this you can seperate the art from the artist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality 65,739 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, SKANK said: No one is more surprised then me that it has likes. Personally, I think that we should not hold all public figures to the same standard. The pedestal we put a politician on should be very different then the pedestal we put a make up guru on. But, I think that's an idea most people may disagree with. It's not necessarily about that though. People should strive to be good people no matter what, desn't matter their socioeconomic status. Obviously we can hold people to different standards, but people should just try and be good no matter what. People shouldn't give othersĀ passes just because they're make-up gurus or something. He has a large fanbase, and a lot of them are impressionable youth. Actually, in some circumstances, we should hold himĀ moreĀ accountable for his actions.Ā Honestly the fact that you said, "Not all public figures have to beĀ good people." is concerning.Ā šš¤š¹ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsy101 5,423 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 oh no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peto flex 2,641 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Who cares šš Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wixson 4,900 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Sure.Ā He would've posted about it before he was done with his doctors appointment.Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKANK 14,288 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 28 minutes ago, M Monstre said: It's not necessarily about that though. People should strive to be good people no matter what, desn't matter their socioeconomic status. Obviously we can hold people to different standards, but people should just try and be good no matter what. People shouldn't give othersĀ passes just because they're make-up gurus or something. He has a large fanbase, and a lot of them are impressionable youth. Actually, in some circumstances, we should hold himĀ moreĀ accountable for his actions.Ā Honestly the fact that you said, "Not all public figures have to beĀ good people." is concerning.Ā Ā I agree with everything you said,Ā until the last paragraph. I donāt know what to tell you other then every public figure you like, living or dead,Ā isnātĀ nearly as good of a person as their PR would have you believe. Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality 65,739 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 1 minute ago, SKANK said: I agree with everything you said,Ā until the last paragraph. I donāt know what to tell you other then every public figure you like, living or dead,Ā isnātĀ nearly as good of a person as their PR would have you believe. I'm not saying that every public figure is good. I'm saying every public figure (and every person in general)Ā shouldĀ strive to be good. When you say, "Not all public figures have to beĀ good people," that sounds like you're saying that not all public figures have to strive to be good people.Ā šš¤š¹ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo 7,650 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Jeffree has a massive and desadaptative personality disorder, why people is still expecting him to change?Ā Ā Best you can do is ignoring him, he will keep doing his messy sht tillĀ the day he dies or social media disappearsĀ Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKANK 14,288 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, M Monstre said: I'm not saying that every public figure is good. I'm saying every public figure (and every person in general)Ā shouldĀ strive to be good. When you say, "Not all public figures have to beĀ good people," that sounds like you're saying that not all public figures have to strive to be good people.Ā Ā Oh no, I agree that everyone should strive to be a good person, public figure or not.Ā I just think public figures should be held to varying degrees of standards. We can allowĀ aĀ rock star a degree ofĀ dangerous and provocative behavior that we wouldnāt allow a public servant. Ā Ā Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn MonHoe 8,203 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 56 minutes ago, SKANK said: Ā Ā Ā Ā I brought up Coco because she is an evil figure in the beauty industry who Gaga has publicly gushed over. I thought that comparison would help you understand my point, that not all public figures who hold value have to be good people. I was under the impression that this was a respectful exchange of ideas, but if you feel differently, you're welcome to pop me on the list of users you ignore. Ā Ā Ā Ā Some people, Gaga included, can appreciate the role certain problematic figures in our culture play, without being complicit in whatever is problematic about their character. For example, being honored to collaborate with Lagerfeld doesn't mean Gaga is complicit with Lagerfeld's nastiness toward Syrian refugees. You are absolutely right that Jeffree has a larger presence in our culture then Waters or Lagerfeld. So, in that way, the comparison falls short. You are also right about there being a trade off defending him. I don't care enough about Jeffree to have wasted this much time talking about him, and probably wont do it again. lmao Loath him, love him, or fall somewhere in between - he is certainly an interesting queer character. Ā Ā No one is more surprised then me that it has likes. Personally, I think that we should not hold all public figures to the same standard. The pedestal we put a politician on should be very different then the pedestal we put a make up guru on. But, I think that's an idea most people may disagree with. Ā You clearly arenāt understanding what Iām saying when I say āIāll take your word for itā. Iām acknowledging the thing that youāreĀ saying is a fact as I have never even heard ofĀ Coco. I understand your point completely and not once did I contest it. Itās the factĀ that you are bringing thatĀ up as a result of people calling Jeffree evil. Youāre acting as if you brought up your point in a vacuum where there was no prior impetus for what you said. There was an impetus, it was people calling Jeffree evil. Youāre defending him,Ā I donāt understand why you have to be so dishonest about it. You idolize evil people by your own admission and canāt handle people calling them evil so you say āI like that our generation has an androgynous, evil, ambassador to glamour.Ā Not all public figures have to be good people.āĀ And I donāt have anyone on my ignore list. If you canāt handle people having disagreements with you then maybe you should get off of Internet forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn MonHoe 8,203 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, M Monstre said: I'm not saying that every public figure is good. I'm saying every public figure (and every person in general)Ā shouldĀ strive to be good. When you say, "Not all public figures have to beĀ good people," that sounds like you're saying that not all public figures have to strive to be good people.Ā That is exactly what they mean. Itās an excuse for them to idolize people like Jeffree so that they donāt have to feel bad about it. He brought this point up afterĀ people started calling Jeffree out. āWe shouldnāt criticize rock stars for being rock stars.ā Jeffree isnāt a rock star, he makes makeup and heās a racist. Now theyāre trying to defend Jeffreeās racism as āWelp it is what it is.ā Disgusting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn MonHoe 8,203 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 Also this isĀ exactlyĀ why we need a disagree button. Multiple pages of nonsense that have nothing to do with this thread has been dragged out while a simple āI disagreeā button couldāve prevented all of this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKANK 14,288 Posted October 10, 2020 Share Posted October 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said: You clearly arenāt understanding what Iām saying when I say āIāll take your word for itā. Iām acknowledging the thing that youāreĀ saying is a fact as I have never even heard ofĀ Coco. I understand your point completely and not once did I contest it. Itās the factĀ that you are bringing thatĀ up as a result of people calling Jeffree evil. Youāre acting as if you brought up your point in a vacuum where there was no prior impetus for what you said. There was an impetus, it was people calling Jeffree evil. Youāre defending him,Ā I donāt understand why you have to be so dishonest about it. You idolize evil people by your own admission and canāt handle people calling them evil so you say āI like that our generation has an androgynous, evil, ambassador to glamour.Ā Not all public figures have to be good people.āĀ And I donāt have anyone on my ignore list. If you canāt handle people having disagreements with you then maybe you should get off of Internet forums. Ā You quoted a post in which I call Jefree evil, while you areĀ claiming thatĀ Iām offended by someone calling him evil. That doesnāt really make any sense, does it? Iām very surprised that someone, particularly on a Lady Gaga fan site, doesnāt know who Coco Chanel is. She was a highly influential artist, and nazi, who Gaga has praised. Which goes to my entire point: bad people can serve a function in our culture. Ā 4 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said: Also this isĀ exactlyĀ why we need a disagree button. Multiple pages of nonsense that have nothing to do with this thread has been dragged out while a simple āI disagreeā button couldāve prevented all of this. Ā To quote yourself,Ā āIf you canāt handle people having disagreements with you then maybe you should get off of Internet forums.ā Ā Ā Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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