Lana explains herself

[StrawberryBlond 13,285]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

She really did not need to give examples that singled out BAME women, it makes her rant look racially charged.

So, if she only mentioned white woman, you'd be just fine with it? That kind of exclusionary ideology just doesn't hold up. I'm definitely not down with the idea that criticising is always fine so long as it's white people it's aimed at. It's only racially charged if that's what your mind is obsessed with. Lana can't help it if nearly all the women at the top of the charts were black, so they were her only reference and she wasn't criticising them anyway, she was just referring to them as female artists with similar subject matter to her. By criticising artists that she considers similar to her, she'd be critisising herself, right? Think about it.

34 minutes ago, freebit said:

That's like saying "if you think this is racist you're the one with the problem"...which is just ridiculous. I do not know you or your politics. I'm talking about the blissfully oblivious, fencesittting white liberals who tend to think they're far more progressive and introspective than they are (which is exactly how Lana is acting). These people don't tend to want to re-examine, or even entertain the thought that they might be perpetuating racist ideas. It's like they think they're just so smart that their brilliant minds simply cannot be affected by their environment and generations of flawed thinking. They think they are the exception. It's like instead of doubling down, why not ask oneself: why did I happen to bring up all WOC? (or those percieved to be WOC). Why imply these women are not delicate or fragile? Most are too afraid to even ask themselves these types of questions. These are the same people who likely think being accused of racism is the same or even worse than actual racism. Bob the Drag Queen puts it much better:

“I think that the answer to maybe fixing racism is acknowledging racism. People saying ‘I'm not racist’ drives me crazy… All white people are racist… If you are white and you're raised in America, you are raised through TV, through books, through every single thing to have racial bias towards white people and against people of color.”

Like he said, the first step is acknowledging racism, otherwise, how we ever going to grow and get better as a society if we don't do that first?

But sometimes something being perceived as racist is bizarre and obscure that it's clear it's coming from a very agenda-focused place, i.e. people trying and failing to be woke. Zeroing on why Lana brought up almost all WOC is partly the reason why white people feel they're walking on eggshells these days. Even when their intentions are completely innocent and something is a complete coincidence, like it is here, we're still frightened of how it might be perceived and that's not right. I've actually had to go through posts of mine before and pepper them with more white people so I won't look bad even though I shouldn't have to feel afraid when my intentions are good. We don't need to question ourselves because we already know the answers. We're more confident in our own beliefs than you think. I wouldn't be putting all this out into the world if I didn't believe what I was saying. Lana in no way said that these women couldn't be fragile. She actually brought up that some of them were being fragile, singing about stuff in the same way she does. Kehlani's music in particular sounds like she puts up with a lot of s**t from men but stays with them. Actually look at the point she's making and not the race. It saddens me that so many people threw out her perfectly good points because they misinterpreted one part. People have done that to me too many times, it's highly infuriating.

No one is saying that being accused of racism is worse than actual racist action. Lana is certainly not so I don't know why you're even bringing this up. And what kinda quote is that? All white people are racist, what, even ones who put themselves out on the front lines defending black people? Doesn't remotely acknowledge all the racism that comes from non-whites? Get outta here. I'm not saying we shouldn't acknowledge racism. But that's just it - we should acknowledge actual racism. A mere post bringing up names of black artists in itself is not racist and that's not what was intended. Go after real racists not stupid s**t like this. If you think posts like this are some sort of racist's call to action, you're sorely mistaken, they don't even care. The only people who know or care what she said are liberals anyway.

2 minutes ago, Queen Neyde said:

i agree that sexual content and songs about women being sexual beings should be allowed in every music genre, my point is, if you want to be part of the revolution you have to expect the arrows as well. when madonna released erotica the world criticized her roughly, when gaga released many of her music videos people hated them because she was satanic or whatever. sometimes you just have to accept that if you step out of the box people will "hate" it at first because they're not used to it. this is why im saying that i find what she's saying pointless. you cant expect to take a risk and it having 0 backlash.

But her point is that some women are allowed a free pass on this stuff and that's not fair. We're in 2020, women singing freely about sex shouldn't be a taboo subject anymore and aren't we actually kinda immune to edgy lyrics now anyway? I think what's always annoyed Lana is that her work is so poetic and should be what critics normally love but they didn't get her, at least at first, nor can she win Grammys. That's what getting at her more than anything.

[beaublue 3,865]

1 hour ago, freebit said:

It's like they think they're just so smart that their brilliant minds simply cannot be affected by their environment and generations of flawed thinking. They think they are the exception.

She literally brought up & talked about generational karma & making reparations for past family and/or generational offenses. Y’all hear what you want to hear. You make up your minds based on everyone else & then the facts go right over your head. This, everyone, is a great example of group-think.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, lovedillon said:

I love Lana & her music but I also agree with what she’s saying & it’s not because I’m a fan of hers, it’s because I understand what she’s saying. She said it as plainly as possible, I don’t get how people still don’t understand what she’s saying. Not to mention, after expressing how hurt she felt with how everyone treated her when she finally chose to speak her mind & everyone is STILL coming for her saying “leave it alone.” So when she responds to hate it’s old news & she should just sit quietly & take it? I’m glad I found one person who understands her point besides me though, gives me some semblance of hope 😂 & yeah, people making it about race? I’m over it. She used them as examples because she’s friends with most of them. Like the amount of projection going on in our generation is clinical. She’s right, the culture is sick.

Even during serious times like this, people still take take joy in their daily cancel culture entertainment. Cancel culture is fake activism and outrage that is done from your bedroom. People always criticized celebrities for entertainment, but today people are using racism and sexism for their own entertainment. None of them care about racism, or they do in a very shallow way. None of them would put effort on real racism, but if a celebrity does something so vague they will do whatever they can to twist it into racism.

From my understanding, Lana used these girls as an example because they recently went #1. She did not randomly choose black women. And she also mentioned other girls who are not black.

[liquidsunshine 729]

Imagining going on and on about your FRagiLE fEMiniNiTy during this pandemic crisis.

We got your points since the very first post. No one is actually think you're racist- the problem is how tone deaf the wordings came across. Just admit that you could have worded or said it better and that would be the end of it.

[Chromatica Island 8,491]

I hate Lana's personality, she seems so bitchy and she slandered Gaga, but I like some of her songs, so this is just another day .mp3 for me lol. It's one of those separate the art from the artist things for me.

[Benji 20,113]

10 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

So, if she only mentioned white woman, you'd be just fine with it? That kind of exclusionary ideology just doesn't hold up. I'm definitely not down with the idea that criticising is always fine so long as it's white people it's aimed at. It's only racially charged if that's what your mind is obsessed with. Lana can't help it if nearly all the women at the top of the charts were black, so they were her only reference and she wasn't criticising them anyway, she was just referring to them as female artists with similar subject matter to her. By criticising artists that she considers similar to her, she'd be critisising herself, right? Think about it.

Where did I say she should only call out white women?  You're so desperate to defend something that has caused offence to people that you're creating a counter that is a false narrative.  By singling out BAME women you do look like your opinion is racially charged.  If I said I had an issue with male vocalists and listed random ones, fine.  If I said I had an issue with male vocalists and then provided you with a list of gay male vocalists it would look like my opinion may be swayed by homophobia.  Now, I'm not saying Lana is racist BUT the message is easy to misconstrue that way and you don't need any experience in public relations to see that.

I'd say "think about it" back but I get the feeling it'll be wasted on you.

[HausOfMark 4,104]

You can tell this is warn on her the past couple days. She literally is crying in this video  

[StrawberryBlond 13,285]

5 hours ago, Benji said:

Where did I say she should only call out white women?  You're so desperate to defend something that has caused offence to people that you're creating a counter that is a false narrative.  By singling out BAME women you do look like your opinion is racially charged.  If I said I had an issue with male vocalists and listed random ones, fine.  If I said I had an issue with male vocalists and then provided you with a list of gay male vocalists it would look like my opinion may be swayed by homophobia.  Now, I'm not saying Lana is racist BUT the message is easy to misconstrue that way and you don't need any experience in public relations to see that.

I'd say "think about it" back but I get the feeling it'll be wasted on you.

You said: "She really did not need to give examples that singled out BAME women, it makes her rant look racially charged." How can that be interpreted other than "she should only have mentioned white women?" Your male vocalists example doesn't particularly work as finding gay male vocalists is reasonably rare, the chance of just highlighting them would be weird whereas there's an abundance of black women making music, so it's not weird at all. And once again, she can't help who's at the top of the charts to provide her examples. As I said before, if she didn't provide examples, people would have demanded them of her as we dislike vagueness most of the time and we want to test if the person making the claim can actually cite actual examples as opposed to just making generalisations.

I do think about it. I wouldn't be making this post if I hadn't. It's others who just have a knee jerk reaction to racism without quantifying what was actually said that aren't thinking things through.

[Benji 20,113]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You said: "She really did not need to give examples that singled out BAME women, it makes her rant look racially charged." How can that be interpreted other than "she should only have mentioned white women?" Your male vocalists example doesn't particularly work as finding gay male vocalists is reasonably rare, the chance of just highlighting them would be weird whereas there's an abundance of black women making music, so it's not weird at all. And once again, she can't help who's at the top of the charts to provide her examples. As I said before, if she didn't provide examples, people would have demanded them of her as we dislike vagueness most of the time and we want to test if the person making the claim can actually cite actual examples as opposed to just making generalisations.

I do think about it. I wouldn't be making this post if I hadn't. It's others who just have a knee jerk reaction to racism without quantifying what was actually said that aren't thinking things through.

I don't even know where to start with this 

Notice the world SINGLED out?  The Cambridge explanation of the phrase is "to choose one person or thing from a group for special attention, especially criticism or praise."  Me saying she should not have done this does not mean that she can only single out white women... She shouldn't have singled out anyone AT ALL but especially not ONLY BAME women.  If you don't get that, I honestly have no idea what to say but wow.

It's a perfect analogy, you're just being dense.  I have reiterated time and time again that I love Lana and I don't believe she is racist but you don't single out BAME women or another minority to make a point like this because you will look racist, it's really that simple.

[StrawberryBlond 13,285]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

I don't even know where to start with this 

Notice the world SINGLED out?  The Cambridge explanation of the phrase is "to choose one person or thing from a group for special attention, especially criticism or praise."  Me saying she should not have done this does not mean that she can only single out white women... She shouldn't have singled out anyone AT ALL but especially not ONLY BAME women.  If you don't get that, I honestly have no idea what to say but wow.

It's a perfect analogy, you're just being dense.  I have reiterated time and time again that I love Lana and I don't believe she is racist but you don't single out BAME women or another minority to make a point like this because you will look racist, it's really that simple.

You didn't say anything about making it a mixture of women, though, you just said she should have singles out BAME women, which could suggest that they shouldn't have been included to any degree, not even one. Notice how it's not just what Lana said that can be misinterpreted? Notice how it doesn't feel nice when someone does that? So why hold Lana to such a high standard to always get it right?

I'm not being dense, I'm being realistic. You could have made a better analogy than that.  Again, it's not Lana's fault if almost all the women at the top of charts over the last year have been mostly black and she didn't have many to choose from. She wasn't just naming random singers, she was naming ones who had had hits recently and those ones happened to be black. Pure coincidence brought upon by who the public made successful. It doesn't matter about perception. It wasn't intended to be racist, therefore, it isn't. Which I know you probably won't agree with, but there.

[Benji 20,113]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You didn't say anything about making it a mixture of women, though, you just said she should have singles out BAME women, which could suggest that they shouldn't have been included to any degree, not even one. Notice how it's not just what Lana said that can be misinterpreted? Notice how it doesn't feel nice when someone does that? So why hold Lana to such a high standard to always get it right?

I'm not being dense, I'm being realistic. You could have made a better analogy than that.  Again, it's not Lana's fault if almost all the women at the top of charts over the last year have been mostly black and she didn't have many to choose from. She wasn't just naming random singers, she was naming ones who had had hits recently and those ones happened to be black. Pure coincidence brought upon by who the public made successful. It doesn't matter about perception. It wasn't intended to be racist, therefore, it isn't. Which I know you probably won't agree with, but there.

I can’t even be arsed in lockdown to argue with you.  It’s sad how much you would lower yourself to argue against racist intent when someone (me) hasn’t actually called her racist.  Go off FruityAryan 

[ThisGuyTony 23,649]

She should stop. People have already made up their minds and no further explanation or reason will change their opinions.

[djBuffoon 11,640]

On 5/25/2020 at 6:24 AM, Benji said:

She's so bad at explaining her point.

I sort of understood her original point.  It is a shame that we don't value music that has tinges of sadness and abuse like Lana's the same as we value tracks that are sexual etc.  This is all a part of the human experience and it's weird we celebrate and encourage hyper sexuality but also don't acknowledge the abuse and darker side of it.

I think this was precisely her point. I even think she explained herself well, but maybe it’s just not something that is easily digestible in writing, where things can be so misconstrued. 

It’s a shame that she’s getting backlash but, going back to her original point, I agree that it’s important to sing about the dark underbelly of relationships, and I’m glad that is what she does with her platform as a a songwriter. 

[FaeMonster 105]

She had to keep her aesthetic with that film noir filter lmao girl 

[StrawberryBlond 13,285]

12 minutes ago, Benji said:

I can’t even be arsed in lockdown to argue with you.  It’s sad how much you would lower yourself to argue against racist intent when someone (me) hasn’t actually called her racist.  Go off FruityAryan 

I never said you called her racist, I was just arguing your point about how she shouldn't have mentioned black women. But don't ever mock me with an insulting name like that again. I miss a time when it wasn't acceptable to call a white person a name that would suggest they support Nazism.