Gaga’s new tweet: "Thinking of Kobe"

[derpmonster 22,412]

The hypocrisy comes through.

Half of y'all would say "good riddance" and call others "disgusting" for remembering them if a known rapist who wasn't a sports icon died tomorrow.

[SLAG 7]

6 minutes ago, spector said:

please cite one of my "messy" comments. i assure you, you won't find one. it was the others (bullies!) who made this discussion messy and personal. also, just because i (and others, i'm not alone) tried to remind people of his rapist past, doesn't mean that i automatically disrespected the other victims. what i stated was that by conveniently forgetting about the life of the survivor at the altar of this tragedy, thereby eliminating one of the real victims from the narrative, is not something i agree with. in fact, that's what i find disrespectful. 

a personal jab is not an argument, nor is it mature or empathetic. imagine telling an abused human being to get another life, because, guess what, being raped feels like death. how do you fix that trauma? exactly. there's no way.

Sounds like you should go get help for your situation instead of fighting for someone else's here. The way you speak about people who have been abused makes me sick. You're the type of person that makes it so hard for people to come out when they're been abused. Making them feel ashamed and painting such a horrible picture of them. Some people prefer not to be a victim for the rest of their lives. Have you ever thought of that? Move on. This is the last I'm responding to you because you're REALLY not worth my time and I'm not giving you anymore energy. Spend more time working on yourself instead of pressing that "SAD' button maybe.

[Daylight Jokers 14,958]

7 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

No, you guys shot down and attacked any mentions of his problematic legacy and now y'all are claiming "you got your chance." Anyone who spoke up was virulently attacked. We are ALL sad for the family, the daughter, and everyone who died in the crash. We are also sad for the tragedy itself. However, it does NOT mean we should idolize or deify him. That's all we're saying. Is kindness and respect for survivors too much to ask for?

Just because you like someone y'all are willing to put aside their horrific actions? Would y'all mourn for Harvey Weinstein if he died?

Wtf, I don't idolize him. Stop putting words in my mouth. But now's not the time to do this. The guy's dead. His daughter died with him. Two families are mourning atm. If some people are celebrating Kobe's death, go on, but they can't expect people to celebrate with them.

[Mister G 9,165]

7 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

So that's all you say about a rapist? That they're "imperfect"?

Excuse me? It's one thing to have some minor flaws as a person, it's another to rape. I'm not here to be a "hero" - I'm a sexual assault survivor and you should do some soul searching to see why you want to defend a rapist so badly. I'm sad for the family and everyone involved but we can do that without shutting down the voices of people who have suffered as a result of that man's actions. There's nuance. There's no correct "time and place" for sexual assault discussion and it's incredibly sad and triggering as a survivor to see people glorifying a rapist because he was an icon.

No, I'm not going to attack anyone else. I don't care that Gaga said this. Why should I? You're just operating with this set mindset of what you consider people who are speaking up to be.

Let me stop you right there. No one glorified anything. You’re putting words in my mouth. Did you see me defend a rapist? No. I simply pointed out the context of what happened and that was the end of that. I don’t need to do any soul searching. Don’t f***ing tell me what I need to do. I’m not the one that insulted anyone and threw hostile commentary at them. I’m literally pointing out that some of ya’ll don’t know how to communicate like civilized folks but want your voices to be heard. You want to call me out, then you better call out every single other person that apparently falls in line with what you think is defending a rapist. You’re acting like I’m absolving him of whatever happened that day with the girl who spoke out against him. Guess what though; the man is dead and nothing can be done at this point. If you want to sit there and accuse me of idolizing a rapist, then you’re sick and twisted for thinking I’d be okay with that. As someone who knows survivors of sexual assault, you got some nerve to come after me like I’m some super villain. You actually think I’m okay with people being raped? You think I find humor or idolization in their legacy for that? You think I found someone like Michael Jackson touching little boys defendable? Gtfoh with your nonsense. I’ve always been on your side and now you wanna come at me.

[derpmonster 22,412]

9 minutes ago, LGs LM said:

Wtf, I don't idolize him. Stop putting words in my mouth. But now's not the time to do this. The guy's dead. His daughter died with him. Two families are mourning atm. If some people are celebrating Kobe's death, go on, but they can't expect people to celebrate with them.

I am NOT celebrating his death, you are putting words into my mouth now. There are numerous people who are celebrating his legacy and no, there is no wrong or right time to bring up the sexual assault so we can remember someone for who they really were, so people can have a nuanced discussion. I have said this before: I am incredibly sad for the family and everyone affected. I would just like people like you to stop shutting down discussion from people who have been suffering for years at the hands of people who did things like he did.

8 minutes ago, MrG1087 said:

Let me stop you right there. No one glorified anything. You’re putting words in my mouth. Did you see me defend a rapist? No. I simply pointed out the context of what happened and that was the end of that. I don’t need to do any soul searching. Don’t f***ing tell me what I need to do. I’m not the one that insulted anyone and threw hostile commentary at them. You want to call me out, then you better call out every single other person that apparently falls in line with what you think is defending a rapist.

"No one"? Please. Many people are glorifying him, implicitly or explicitly. You tried to f***king tell me what to do and you're just getting what you give. You called people "literal garbage" for pointing out sexual assault and if that's not "hostile commentary" I don't know what is. Your silly "call everything out if you want to call one out" argument is exactly the black and white thinking we don't need.

All I'm saying is we can have nuance and have respect for both the family and the survivors. We can acknowledge he had a complicated legacy rather than ignoring all the bad.

I agree with @Franch Toast in that we need nuance here. Why are people only calling for that in one direction? Why aren't people allowing some respect for the survivors?

[derpmonster 22,412]

7 minutes ago, darkpaw said:

Sounds like you should go get help for your situation instead of fighting for someone else's here. The way you speak about people who have been abused makes me sick. You're the type of person that makes it so hard for people to come out when they're been abused. Making them feel ashamed and painting such a horrible picture of them. Some people prefer not to be a victim for the rest of their lives. Have you ever thought of that? Move on. This is the last I'm responding to you because you're REALLY not worth my time and I'm not giving you anymore energy. Spend more time working on yourself instead of pressing that "SAD' button maybe.

Just stop it. I'm a survivor and this is what I have to say.

You tell me hold your head up and be strong

Cause when you fall, you gotta get up and move on

Tell me how the hell could you talk

Cause until you walk where I walk, it's just all talk.

 

[derpmonster 22,412]

@LGs LM laughing at a sexual assault survivor talking about their experience and calling for nuance. Stay classy.

[Mister G 9,165]

Just now, derpmonster said:

I am NOT celebrating his death, you are putting words into my mouth now. There are numerous people who are celebrating his legacy and no, there is no wrong or right time to bring up the sexual assault so we can remember someone for who they really were, so people can have a nuanced discussion. I have said this before: I am incredibly sad for the family and everyone affected. I would just like people like you to stop shutting down discussion from people who have been suffering for years at the hands of people who did things like he did.

"No one"? Please. Many people are glorifying him, implicitly or explicitly. You tried to f***king tell me what to do and you're just getting what you give. You called people "literal garbage" for pointing out sexual assault and if that's not "hostile commentary" I don't know what is. Your silly "call everything out if you want to call one out" argument is exactly the black and white thinking we don't need.

All I'm saying is we can have nuance and have respect for both the family and the survivors. We can acknowledge he had a complicated legacy rather than ignoring all the bad.

I’m not ignoring the bad if you read what I wrote after my original post. I never once claimed he was purely innocent. I never once ignored the bad. I simply pointed out no one knows what really happened that night. I’m relaying information based on how the case turned out and all of a sudden I’m defending a rapist. Thanks it’s nice to know someone thinks so poorly of me.

[spector 1,893]

3 minutes ago, darkpaw said:

Sounds like you should go get help for your situation instead of fighting for someone else's here. The way you speak about people who have been abused makes me sick. You're the type of person that makes it so hard for people to come out when they're been abused. Making them feel ashamed and painting such a horrible picture of them. Some people prefer not to be a victim for the rest of their lives. Have you ever thought of that? Move on. This is the last I'm responding to you because you're REALLY not worth my time and I'm not giving you anymore energy.

digusting. 

i guess you know nothing about the psychology behind traumatic events. the victim–survivor trajectory doesn't happen in an instant, just like that. it takes an incredible amount of time to say out loud, "yes, i was a victim but no longer choose to be defined by that." the sick thing is your uncritical assumption that self-reflexive vulnerability is weakness. it is exactly the mental armor that needs to come off in order to step onto the path of healing. 

[CyanLights 15,258]

This thread has gotten way outta hand and off topic, I’m locking this for now.