Star Wars: The Rise Of Skywalker

[Reality 65,728]

28 minutes ago, Spock said:

Okay so I just got out of the cinema

the bad reviews it’s getting is definitely because of where Star Wars is right now and its perception. This is nowhere near prequel bad

it’s incredibly action packed and fun, some bits were really good, others were not so good. The whole Emperor thing felt really random, as did Rey’s lineage reveal. Also the scenes with Leia screamed stand in and made me scream. The ending was really cute though 

i saw a lot of people saying it’s heavy on the fan service but I would say it’s more emotionally manipulative than anything else. Basically every line and scene with the legacy characters hits you right in the gut, I cried so many times. And that is where I found it tried to make up for fan dissatisfaction and everything Rian did, it feels more like a sequel than TLJ. But all the rest seemed like a normal Star Wars movie to me 

the only thing that really bothered me was that 

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If the force is all about balance, how was Palpatine and an entire army of Siths able to exist and rise within the Dark Side without causing the Jedi and Light Side to rise as well? 

 

This is what I'm thinking. I haven't seen the movie yet, so I have no idea, but I feel like many critics are trying to get on fans' "good side" after their praise of TLJ. I could be wrong, but is this, in your opinion, part of the divisiveness of the movie so far?

[IllusionLover 6,194]

OMG I want to watch this so bad. It releases tomorrow in my country but I don't know when to go. 

I just recently watched the previous 2 for the first time and I'm in love, can't wait to see this, one. 

[DeanWinchester 41,390]

2 hours ago, corvus albus said:

Rose is one of the best new additions that the movie had.

You can’t sacrifice yourself and kill people you hate even if my sister and Holdo literally did that in the same movie minutes before and they were hailed heroes!!!!1!! It doesn't matter that the last remaining forces of the rebellion resistance is dying behind us and I’m denying you character growth of finally standing up instead of running away, let us kiss 

[corvus albus 38,031]

9 minutes ago, DeanWinchester said:

You can’t sacrifice yourself and kill people you hate even if my sister and Holdo literally did that in the same movie minutes before and they were hailed heroes!!!!1!! It doesn't matter that the last remaining forces of the rebellion resistance is dying behind us and I’m denying you character growth of finally standing up instead of running away, let us kiss 

Yeah, Fin and Po should've kissed

[Spock 20,290]

2 hours ago, corvus albus said:

Your criticisms are laughable tbh. They couldn't have ended Lukes character arc any better, there is no forced agenda even if you believe that SJW ruined everything and Rose is one of the best new additions that the movie had. You can criticise some if its pacing but overall the narrative flows largely natural.

lol what?  

how can you say that when Luke's character caused major uproar that is still discussed to his day and literally fractured the entire brand?  even Mark Hamill was disappointed and said he hated how Rian handled the character, like  again and again.

i'm all for diversity and inclusion, but Rose's character was bland af and the narrative didn't flow because the movie was too self-aware in trying to burn everything to the ground and deconstruct the franchise 

I'm in the minority, I liked TLJ, but at least I can understand its problems and see where fans are coming from

 

1 hour ago, Flopplause said:

Also Disney threw out George Lucas's story outlines for the sequel trilogy and also the Legends materials (which is a LOT of material) in favor of something they would concoct with half assed writing and no "source material".

I'm sorry but out of all the mess Disney has made out of SW, this was one of the better decisions they took. The sequel trilogy was going to be about this microscopic organisms that make up the Force or whatever, and would further explore midichlorians which is one of the most negatively received aspects of the prequels. It's like George was trolling at that point

I'm not saying that producing a new trilogy with no outline and winging it is forgivable (though again, Rian) but it's still better than a midichlorian trilogy

 

30 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

This is what I'm thinking. I haven't seen the movie yet, so I have no idea, but I feel like many critics are trying to get on fans' "good side" after their praise of TLJ. I could be wrong, but is this, in your opinion, part of the divisiveness of the movie so far?

I'm not sure it's about getting on fans' good side because a SW nerd is never going to read the New York Times review or whatever for approval. A negative reaction was bound to happen after the TLJ, Solo and Galaxy's Edge messes imo, you could smell it in the air. I think the divisiveness still comes from TLJ and the fact that Rise of Skywalker tries to make up the mess by blatantly fan servicing using the legacy characters, and people aren't stupid and can see right through it.

imo it's more of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, because after TFA fans complained it was a clone of the original and wanted something different. Then after TLJ was different, they didn't want something as radical. And now with ROS they course corrected but it was too late and there was too much, so they swept everything under fan service hoping it would do. "Emperor Palpatine being in this movie makes no sense, but look, here is Lando and Chewie flying the Falcon!!" kind of thing  

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

I'll be watching it Friday all by myself after  I get off work around 10pm lol

I'm trying to avoid spoilers so I dont ruin my initial experience 

[DeanWinchester 41,390]

18 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm in the minority, I liked TLJ, but at least I can understand its problems and see where fans are coming from

A blessing. Literally a blessing.

[Reality 65,728]

14 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm not sure it's about getting on fans' good side because a SW nerd is never going to read the New York Times review or whatever for approval. A negative reaction was bound to happen after the TLJ, Solo and Galaxy's Edge messes imo, you could smell it in the air. I think the divisiveness still comes from TLJ and the fact that Rise of Skywalker tries to make up the mess by blatantly fan servicing using the legacy characters, and people aren't stupid and can see right through it.

imo it's more of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, because after TFA fans complained it was a clone of the original and wanted something different. Then after TLJ was different, they didn't want something as radical. And now with ROS they course corrected but it was too late and there was too much, so they swept everything under fan service hoping it would do. "Emperor Palpatine being in this movie makes no sense, but look, here is Lando and Chewie flying the Falcon!!" kind of thing  

I disagree with the first part, though I definitely agree with you in the second. 

I feel like a lot of hardcore SW fans will look towards media outlets and critics to help form their opinion. Of course, they'll have their own, individual opinion leaving the theatre, but remember that the praise of TLJ was what helped to fuel the fact that so many of the fans did not like it. It was really almost this disconnection between the fans and the critics that in my opinion, is what critics are trying to play into with TROS.

Of course, you know 100% better than me considering you've seen the movie, but to me, it just seems so weird for now critics to be so divided after seemingly all loving TLJ after it was objectively the most divisive SW movie ever.

I've heard from several people about the fan service-y stuff in this movie, and I guess I'll just have to wait and watch the movie to find out. Endgame's third act, for example, was nothing but fan service, but I absolutely loved it. Maybe I'll have the same reaction here....

That all said, this is definitely a more "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. SW is so divided at this point that anything you do will piss people off, even if you have the best of intentions. I just hope this is a "Joker" situation where the audiences tend to like the movie more than the critics. 

[Chromatislaps 34,559]

34 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm sorry but out of all the mess Disney has made out of SW, this was one of the better decisions they took. The sequel trilogy was going to be about this microscopic organisms that make up the Force or whatever, and would further explore midichlorians which is one of the most negatively received aspects of the prequels. It's like George was trolling at that point

I'm not saying that producing a new trilogy with no outline and winging it is forgivable (though again, Rian) but it's still better than a midichlorian trilogy

If you have seen the Clone Wars episodes about it, its actually pretty interesting. I'd given anything to have more of stuff about the Whills then the shite Disney released (aside from Rogue One)

[Spock 20,290]

3 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I disagree with the first part, though I definitely agree with you in the second. 

I feel like a lot of hardcore SW fans will look towards media outlets and critics to help form their opinion. Of course, they'll have their own, individual opinion leaving the theatre, but remember that the praise of TLJ was what helped to fuel the fact that so many of the fans did not like it. It was really almost this disconnection between the fans and the critics that in my opinion, is what critics are trying to play into with TROS.

Of course, you know 100% better than me considering you've seen the movie, but to me, it just seems so weird for now critics to be so divided after seemingly all loving TLJ after it was objectively the most divisive SW movie ever.

I've heard from several people about the fan service-y stuff in this movie, and I guess I'll just have to wait and watch the movie to find out. Endgame's third act, for example, was nothing but fan service, but I absolutely loved it. Maybe I'll have the same reaction here....

That all said, this is definitely a more "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. SW is so divided at this point that anything you do will piss people off, even if you have the best of intentions. I just hope this is a "Joker" situation where the audiences tend to like the movie more than the critics. 

hm I mean, I am aware that critics added fuel to the fire but I think what bothered them most was not that it was "critics" pre se, just that it was getting positive reception everywhere when they were deeply unhappy. Rian came in and took a big steamy poop on everything, so I do understand the disconnect because critics for the most part are not hardcore SW fans. If a critic's job is to asses the movie in a vacuum, then yeah I can see why TLJ got the reviews it got. And by that same optic, I guess critics watched this movie and picked up on its obvious damage control and wrote about that.

But on the other hand, no reviewer reviews in a vacuum, and the bad reviews it's getting, to me, is because of the state SW is in now, it's cool to hate on it and Disney and JJ and Kathleen Kennedy, because it's not that bad on its own merits. Which is ironic because, like you say, critics somewhat caused SW to get to this point, it's like the chicken or the egg, but it's impossible to separate the two

So to answer to your question lmao idk, I guess I'm a bit lost in all this, but I wouldn't say they are trying to win back fans, they're just responding to the state the brand is in now, if that makes sense? 

I think the difference with Endgame's fan service and TROS is that it was not reactive, it was organic. The MCU built up on 20 movies and 10 years to get to that point. so it felt natural. In TROS they're just doing damage control

but I will say, I did like TROS. There's a lot of it that's good, it just feels bittersweet to go out on such a sour note

(sorry for the essays lmao) 

 

[corvus albus 38,031]

36 minutes ago, Spock said:

lol what?  

how can you say that when Luke's character caused major uproar that is still discussed to his day and literally fractured the entire brand?  even Mark Hamill was disappointed and said he hated how Rian handled the character, like  again and again.

Fans are bickering which means he's controversial now? I'm sorry but Luke was always a giant prick so it's no wonder he reacted that way. Every single step was very believable and just because Luke wasn't allowed to be the shiny hero Mark Hamill wanted and have some actual depth doesn't make the decisions wrong. 

40 minutes ago, Spock said:

i'm all for diversity and inclusion, but Rose's character was bland af and the narrative didn't flow because the movie was too self-aware in trying to burn everything to the ground and deconstruct the franchise 

Yes Rian Johnson dared to have themes in a movie. The deconstruction was needed in order to drive the characters forward.

Rose as former slave freeing enslaved animals and rampaging a city which enslaved them for fun is very bland. Maybe read a bit on the background and the topics of the movie. 

44 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm in the minority, I liked TLJ, but at least I can understand its problems and see where fans are coming from

Most of the things people complain about aren't actual problems. I'm sorry but General Holdo was right in not trusting Po and the fact that a lot of the criticism stems from insecure manchildren that don't like to be told no is not something I'm willing comply to. 

[Reality 65,728]

2 minutes ago, Spock said:

hm I mean, I am aware that critics added fuel to the fire but I think what bothered them most was not that it was "critics" pre se, just that it was getting positive reception everywhere when they were deeply unhappy. Rian came in and took a big steamy poop on everything, so I do understand the disconnect because critics for the most part are not hardcore SW fans. If a critic's job is to asses the movie in a vacuum, then yeah I can see why TLJ got the reviews it got. And by that same optic, I guess critics watched this movie and picked up on its obvious damage control and wrote about that.

But on the other hand, no reviewer reviews in a vacuum, and the bad reviews it's getting, to me, is because of the state SW is in now, it's cool to hate on it and Disney and JJ and Kathleen Kennedy, because it's not that bad on its own merits. Which is ironic because, like you say, critics somewhat caused SW to get to this point, it's like the chicken or the egg, but it's impossible to separate the two

So to answer to your question lmao idk, I guess I'm a bit lost in all this, but I wouldn't say they are trying to win back fans, they're just responding to the state the brand is in now, if that makes sense? 

I think the difference with Endgame's fan service and TROS is that it was not reactive, it was organic. The MCU built up on 20 movies and 10 years to get to that point. so it felt natural. In TROS they're just doing damage control

but I will say, I did like TROS. There's a lot of it that's good, it just feels bittersweet to go out on such a sour note

(sorry for the essays lmao) 

 

lol no need to apologize for your long response. I know I do the same

I completely understand what you mean about the critics and the state of Star Wars, though. On one end, critics are responding to this movie based on the state of Star Wars, but on the other end, we are in this state  partially because of the critics' responses to previous movies.

I'm also not necessarily trying to defend TLJ too. Like you, I'm in the minority that does like TLJ; I do think it gets more hate than it deserves. That said, I can definitely understand some of the problems that surround it.

With the Endgame fan service, you're right. Endgame's ending was about a conclusion to this 10 year saga; it all built up to that last third act. Even though I love older Star Wars characters (especially the Emperor), admittedly, it was very weird and surreal seeing (or rather, hearing) him in the first trailer. It just felt so sudden and it—to me—was clear that this was mostly fan service to make up for TLJ. That said, I kind of love fan service, so again, I'll just have to wait and see it on Monday!

[Spock 20,290]

30 minutes ago, corvus albus said:

Fans are bickering which means he's controversial now? I'm sorry but Luke was always a giant prick so it's no wonder he reacted that way. Every single step was very believable and just because Luke wasn't allowed to be the shiny hero Mark Hamill wanted and have some actual depth doesn't make the decisions wrong. 

Yes Rian Johnson dared to have themes in a movie. The deconstruction was needed in order to drive the characters forward.

Rose as former slave freeing enslaved animals and rampaging a city which enslaved them for fun is very bland. Maybe read a bit on the background and the topics of the movie. 

Most of the things people complain about aren't actual problems. I'm sorry but General Holdo was right in not trusting Po and the fact that a lot of the criticism stems from insecure manchildren that don't like to be told no is not something I'm willing comply to. 

I love getting schooled on Star Wars  

"fans bickering" have literally driven Star Wars to the ground, and TLJ has had ramifications that weakened the entire brand. If you refuse to see it, and try to paint fan reception as message board bickering, then that's on you lol

? Luke has never been a "prick", you obviously have no idea who the character is or what he stands for. The character development is believable if you look at Luke as a character established in TLJ, but the Luke from the OT would not have become what he became in TLJ. And like it or not, Mark Hamill's opinion on this matters. It's not about being a hero or not. It's about being respectful of a character's legacy that people have been waiting to see on screen for 30 years

I'm not saying the themes weren't interesting, or that the Canto Bright sequence didn't say interesting things. I actually liked the movie quite a lot. I'm saying Rose as a character was bland and boring as hell that served no purpose (which is evidenced by her becoming a tertiary character in TROS). It doesn't take anything away from the importance freedom and slaves  And no, consciously burning everything Star Wars is to the ground was not needed to drive the characters forward. 

You can comply or not all you want lmao I don't care, but you're the one who's being a manchild refusing to listen to valid criticism just because you want to appear to educate me. Whether you want to believe it or not, there is a group of people who are not incels living in there mothers' basement that have valid negative things to say about The Last Jedi.

But I'm obviously talking to someone who has no idea what he's talking about so I'll stop here 

 

1 hour ago, Flopplause said:

If you have seen the Clone Wars episodes about it, its actually pretty interesting. I'd given anything to have more of stuff about the Whills then the shite Disney released (aside from Rogue One)

I love the Clone Wars show and I do think it's interesting but I don't think it would have done well as a major film trilogy. I also don't think everything Disney has released is **** but I don't think we'll agree on that lmao

 

1 hour ago, M Monstre said:

lol no need to apologize for your long response. I know I do the same

I completely understand what you mean about the critics and the state of Star Wars, though. On one end, critics are responding to this movie based on the state of Star Wars, but on the other end, we are in this state  partially because of the critics' responses to previous movies.

I'm also not necessarily trying to defend TLJ too. Like you, I'm in the minority that does like TLJ; I do think it gets more hate than it deserves. That said, I can definitely understand some of the problems that surround it.

With the Endgame fan service, you're right. Endgame's ending was about a conclusion to this 10 year saga; it all built up to that last third act. Even though I love older Star Wars characters (especially the Emperor), admittedly, it was very weird and surreal seeing (or rather, hearing) him in the first trailer. It just felt so sudden and it—to me—was clear that this was mostly fan service to make up for TLJ. That said, I kind of love fan service, so again, I'll just have to wait and see it on Monday!

I do hope they'll be able to find a Kevin Feige like person to manage everything, though I don't think anyone wants the job right now  . Obviously Kathleen is very accomplished but she doesn't really know what she's doing

with the Emperor, JJ said it was the plan all along to have him in TROS but you can kinda see it wasn't. Still, his scenes were really fun

let me know what you think when you see it!

[DeanWinchester 41,390]

1 hour ago, corvus albus said:

Rose as former slave freeing enslaved animals and rampaging a city which enslaved them for fun is very bland.

But what about the enslaved children there who are most likely to clean up the mess Rose left behind?

[DeluluSwine 3,812]

Just saw it and i liked it. I dont understand why people hate the sequel trilogy so much