Kacey Musgraves accused of cultural appropriating

[Morphine Prince 96,089]

1 minute ago, ltlmnstr said:

Yeah fashion is one of the worst environmental capitalist structures on the planet giving way to much of pollution due to fast fashion from fads and trends, which most of the time offer an inauthentic view of cultural exchange. 

Definitely. Usually it's a quick cash grab for people to obtain an aesthetic that will be irrelevant in a few months. In the end the masses don't actually appreciate or learn anything that may have served as an inspiration for said fashion trend. 

[Morphine Prince 96,089]

1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

Totally! I have the same concerns as you and a lot of other folks in this thread. At the end of the day, if people don't want it to happen, I would respect that and hope others would too.

I guess my question is whether you think that is going on here? 

For example, I'm uncomfortable with people saying "well, you can wear certain things as long as you don't sexualize it." I'm a pretty sex-positive person, and I think women are especially suppressed when people tell them they cannot express their sexuality or show their bodies. 

Kacey showing her skin is considered bastardization, but showing skin was the spearhead of the women's liberation movement. 

My main issue is when people affirm there is "no issue" when in fact certain people were not ok with it. 

As for the sexualization, I would say it depends. If you wear something that should not be associated with sexuality, I can see an issue. 

Example: Wearing a "sexy nun" outfit in a promo shoot. A nun's dress code is the complete opposite of sexual and therefore I wouldn't be surprised if people were offended by this fashion choice. 

Now with this dress, from my understating, and the Vietnamese members in here can correct me if I'm wrong, this dress is supposed to represent elegance and has become a national symbol of Vietnam overseas.  This is something usually NOT sexual. So for an American country singer to wear this and try to make it be sexual would be a disrespect to this dress.

 I'm not saying everyone has to believe this or that's it's a fact. It's what some people have expressed as their concern. 

Let me clarify, sexuality is very important in fashion, especially for women. It has been used a symbol of freedom for decades. I just don't think Kacey Musgraves is the one who should be doing that with this dress  

Again, this is assuming she even knows what she's wearing. I don't think there was any malice. But I think if she reads some of the criticism she may grow more conscious of her future fashion choices. She can only learn from this, I see that as a positive thing. 

[SKANK 14,288]

Enigma Yee-haw star is fun, she wear Ao Dai for fashion
It's not a statement as much as just a move of passion

 

[gag 22,449]

1 hour ago, MJHolland said:

First off, thank you for adding your voice to the conversation. 

I understand that it's not appropriate to perpetuate stereotypes, but I feel like the example you gave is kind of a reach. 

I also have an issue with telling people that they can only participate in speech (ie the freedom of fashion) only when some people get to judge it as acceptable. 

Especially when it comes to women, who are judged a lot harsher in terms of how they can and cannot express their sexuality compared to men. 

It’s not necessarily a reach when you consider the extent of which Vietnamese women were sexualised during the Vietnam War, like... the ‘me love you long time’ trope directed at Asian women originated as a commentary on Vietnamese prostitutes for example. This is not the most abhorrent example of Asian fetishism, because I’m sure Kacey did it out of genuine visual appreciation, but at the end of the day it DOES contribute to that stereotype somewhat. Especially when there’s such a precedence for this type of ‘traditional costume but make it sexy’ concept in Western media (Western p*rn in an extreme case). 

I agree with the general concept of freedom of speech / fashion but when it comes down to situations like this, an element of respect and education is required. Just like anything else in life.

I am a man with a vastly different to a Vietnamese woman though so I’ll refrain from stepping on that too much.

[gag 22,449]

6 hours ago, RAMROD said:

True. It always makes me laughed when I remembered that one picture where the SJWs were getting lectured by actual Japanese women when they caught  these people protesting about Cultural appropriation in Boston cos non Japanese wearing Kimonos and such when it is non issue for actual Japanese.

 

It's been proven time and time and time and time again, that actual Asians never mind it when foreign people wear their traditional clothing  or other things of their culture, they actually  encouraged that. The SJWs are just lunatic brigade that have too much time to do about self guilt with their previlege so they did this kind of thing, trying to speak for somebody, when nobody ask them to, to make themselves fel better.

...are you not seeing the irony in you complaining about SJWs speaking over the groups they’re trying to represent... and you literally doing the same thing but on the opposite end?

Either way, this application of a Japanese example is kind of gross man. Japanese and Vietnamese people have different attitudes towards foreigners wearing their traditional costume, the same applies to Korean, Chinese, Malaysian, Thai, Indian etc. people. Asian people are not a monolith.

I can PROMISE you the reaction (from what I’m hearing among friends back in Vietnam and from checking Vietnamese sources) are undeniably negative towards Kacey. My reaction in the previous page is MUCH tamer than the general consensus right now. You can Google Translate some of these articles if you have the time:

http://m.kenh14.vn/ngo-thanh-van-buc-xuc-vu-nu-ca-si-kacey-musgraves-mac-ao-dai-viet-nhung-quen-mac-quan-con-co-khoe-dang-kech-com-20191012233737108.chn

https://news.zing.vn/pham-huong-chi-trich-ca-si-my-mac-ao-dai-khong-quan-phan-cam-post1000894.html#wap

https://tuoitre.vn/nu-ca-si-kacey-musgraves-tung-doat-grammy-mac-ao-dai-voi-quan-lot-bieu-dien-2019101312355196.htm

Here’s an English one from a Vietnamese news source: https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/american-singer-gets-a-vietnamese-dressing-down-over-cultural-faux-pas-3996203.html

Again, stop speaking for us. Thanks.

[ANTI WP 19,760]

4 hours ago, MJHolland said:

To the same point -- what's wrong with showing your hips?

 

4 hours ago, MJHolland said:

So was it the traditional dress or did she alter it? 

You're literally not making sense 

Both Gaga and Kacey altered the dresses to make them their own 

Also, the Áo Dài has no special cultural value outside of fashion. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But fashion is meant to be interpreted and shared by everyone. Fashion shouldn't be considered appropriation. 

At this point ... I don't want to explain anymore ... 

[TheQueenEnthusiast 937]

Ewwwwww the amount of subtle unconscious xenophobia in this thread 

[TheQueenEnthusiast 937]

No offense, white gays, especially the international ones. You really need to watch the way you word things. Your micro-aggressions are showing, not very Gaga like. 

[Guillaume Hamon 5,563]

4 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

The people who are so rabid to come after anyone mentioning "cultural appropriation" are more bothered over people taking issue with this than the actual people who pointed it out in the first place. Pathetic. 

In this thread you mean? So far the really pissed off ones were the ones "mentioning cultural appropriation" tho.

[insight 2,425]

Gen Z problems

[RAMROD 96,329]

2 hours ago, gag said:

this application of a Japanese example is kind of gross man. Japanese and Vietnamese people have different attitudes towards foreigners wearing their traditional costume, the same applies to Korean, Chinese, Malaysian, Thai, Indian etc. people. Asian people are not a monolith.

LOL no.  Majority of Asians are not triggered with people who wears their traditional clothing. Being half Asian myself and living in Asia for 10+ years.  I did know much better than the ABAs on how locals reacts over these stuffs.     Get offended all you want, I am not and never speaking for you.

 

[gag 22,449]

22 minutes ago, RAMROD said:

LOL no.  Majority of Asians are not triggered with people who wears their traditional clothing. Being half Asian myself and living in Asia for 10+ years.  I did know much better than the ABAs on how locals reacts over these stuffs.     Get offended all you want, I am not and never speaking for you.

> ‘Majority of Asians are not triggered’

> ‘I am not and never speaking for you’

Pick one.

You still keep referring to Asians as if it doesn’t encompass billions of people.  Just say you’re not offended over this and go. 

[chipz 1,197]

People nowaday...what's next? Offended by breathing??????????????????????????????

[Morphine Prince 96,089]

5 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

In this thread you mean? So far the really pissed off ones were the ones "mentioning cultural appropriation" tho.

Not really. The people who “don’t care” come in threads like this in droves to dismiss everything. 

No one is actually pissed off. I just can’t imagine coming into a thread to dismiss people’s thoughts every single time over something I don’t think is real or care about. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,279]

Unless a garment is sacred in some form, I've never understood why anyone would get up in arms about who wears it and how. Thing is, when something isn't from your culture, most people around you won't know or care about the origin of it. To most of us, clothes are clothes, they keep us warm and keep us from exposing ourselves. The end. Any further meaning you attach to it is purely on you. Someone's reason for wearing a certain piece of clothing may be different from yours, but that doesn't make their interpretation any less meaningful or acceptable.

I'm Scottish and I couldn't care less if someone wore a kilt incorrectly by draping it over their shoulders or something. It's just fabric fashioned into a shape. Nothing to get offended about. It doesn't matter if it originated hundreds of years ago or that they were worn by people who fought for our country's freedoms. In today's world, they're a blanket of cloth worn round the middle, usually by men, usually at weddings and other formal occasions. The origin matters little to Scots and should equally be of little importance to anyone else. One of the things that changes most in this world is the application of fashion. It's always changing its formation and how it's worn and interpreted. You can't stamp a meaning on it and say this is what it means forevermore.

What this person complaining needs to understand is, for most people in the world, fashion is a free-for-all. They're allowed to dress however they want and believe they should do so without being policed. Maybe one culture wants to dress according to strict traditional norms applying to certain outfits. But other cultures, most notably, Western ones, don't take such rules seriously, believing everyone should wear whatever they like without being told they're wrong in some way. If you're offended that I wore your culture's dress wrong, I'm equally as offended that you're telling me what I can and can't wear which is a big no-no in my culture. So, who's right? Maybe no one is. Just live your life how you want as long as you're not hurting anyone.

And it's also worth adding that if you think one culture's clothing should be respected, then everyone's automatically should be too. But I don't see anyone going after anyone wearing garments derived from Europeans wrongly or saying that Europeans should decide how they are worn. They may even have the audacity to say that European descended clothing has no culture and was all stolen from colonised nations anyway. Don't fall down that ridiculous rabbit hole if you're not educated or you will look like a fool.