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Spiked on Sam Smith: "You're still a he"


Akiki

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ItsTommyBitch
29 minutes ago, Akiki said:

:laughga: 

damn... thank god you were a "lucky one":pray:

 

It's laughable how people call 99.999% of people to be racist, transphobic and ignorant just to keep this bullshit trend alive. 

You are not that special either, honey. Don't act like you are better than the rest 

Idk what trend you're talking about really, I say that because its true, not because it fits some agenda. I also never claimed to be part of the 0.001%, so  :ladyhaha:  We're all raised in a society that is racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. and we have to work to unlearn those things. Everyone's at their own pace though - hopefully you get somewhere with yours eventually, I have faith in you sis :kiss: 

私自身もこの世の中も誰もかれもが, どんなに華やかな人生でも, どんなに悲惨な人生でも, いつかは変貌し, 破壊され、消滅してしまう. すべてがもともとこの世に存在しない一瞬の幻想なのだから
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He's biologically a male, which makes him "He, Him, His".

If he passed you on the street, you'd think he was a "He", and you would consider him as such.

I might be wrong about how I feel, but it's logically sound. And the average person would agree.

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StrawberryBlond
33 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

A few points here.

1) You're misunderstanding gender and sex here. No trans person or non binary person is biologically a different sex. Trans women are Not biologically women, they have never claimed to be one. Their GENDER IDENTITY is woman, non binary, etc. and that informs their expression, perception, and way of going about the world. A fully passing, "stealth" trans woman in the bathroom still has xy chromosomes, the point is that NEITHER sex nor gender is simply defined by a singular aspect of biology, scientifically and societally. I

2) A lot of your overall tone here isn't "blunt" its offensive, which is an interesting stance to take on something you are misinformed about. I'm genderqueer. I don't have "personal issues" with my gender, I am very comfortable with myself, the only problem is that society has regressive and prescribed binary gender roles, and we've known gender is a spectrum and a social construct for many many many years now :rip: Like since the beginning of recorded time they have been constructed, and thus malleable.

3) "Memorizing" things is hard is... a weak argument when you consider like the 1% population # of gender non conforming people... You might meet like 10 or 20 or so non binary people that use they/them in your life let's say... Is it actually *tangibly* that hard to respect the pronouns of a few people that the average person has not met and has no frame of reference for outside of stereotypes? They might not even be your friends just people you meet around things... This is extra tbh. It takes the same amount of mental energy for me to remember not to bring up my political beliefs around my conservative friends, or to avoid calling certain people by annoying nicknames they do not like... It's not hard, and there's no hand of society Forcing you to do anything here. (Fun fact: When you accept someone for the gender and pronouns they claim to be, you don't have to MEMORIZE anything, its funny how the brain works really. I accept my gnc friends as they are, and thus don't have to think about memorizing things, I just appropriately call them what they are. It's only when our monkey brains have gut reactions that people are likely to slip up, but you being a sentient human in the 21st century can easily override that) 

4) On the point of it only being important to people close to and around you... You're mostly correct. Gender non conforming people aren't completely lacking in self-awareness... I have dozens of gnc friends (myself included) and none of us have EVER gotten mad at a stranger for not calling us they/them (I go by he/him btw) because that doesn't make any sense and we were raised in the same binary society as you were, so we know how people think because we were raised to think the same. HOWEVER: When someone decides to come out so to speak in their local community or social circle and say 'I go by x/x pronouns" it is them asking for basic respect from the people they care about. The decision not to call them by that only matters there.  This is what Sam Smith has done, albeit on a larger scale because of their celebrity and im sure they asked their closer circles first.

5) Your skepticism about the veracity of recent trans people and gender non conforming people is... unfounded?

The same way that there didn't used to be a popular, positive identifier for homosexuality, bisexuality, etc. there was not a word for trans and gnc people that was affirming, so it is actually quite logical that awareness and representation for something will eventually increase the number of people who feel like these words define or relate to them. The media pushes this idea that trans activists and representation in non binary people will make people "come out of the woodworks" (that phrase has a history of a negative connotation by the way) and it's really bizarre to me. It sounds like you think many people would voluntarily choose to be part of a marginalized group and live lives that are inauthentic to themselves for a trend... which really flies against all evidence of how most human beings work :rip: There will be some the way there are some people that follow trends in all walks of life, but not so sizeable a chunk to be a statistically significant portion, not that we could ever measure it in the first place. It's not a bandwagoning, if you've met trans people and gnc people you'll see that they just like you want to live their lives in a dignified and honest way and choose to express themselves fully as such because it leads to overall quality of life improvement and self-actualization in the long run.

6)  Kind of related to point 5, but transgenderism is not defined by passing, nor is it solely defined by gender dysphoria, a word that's been missing from many posts in here for some reason. This sounds like Blaire White's argument, but its not the reality. Even the medical and psychological field recognizes that one does not need to feel gender dysphoria or a certain degree to be Trans and include non binary identities... It's 2019. Referring back to point 4, people that do not pass are not stupid, they know what they look like and how they act, and they don't expect random strangers to guess their gender identity correctly if they do not present as. However, this doesn't make them not trans, etc. The requirement of "formal diagnosis" is really problematic tbh. Not everyone can afford that, doctors, psychiatrists, etc. are still biased humans in 2019 and I've heard many of a case of "legitimate" trans people being denied access to hormones, surgery, etc. because their doctors have a misunderstanding of trans issues. Also, its very expensive to transition surgically. Social transition is equally as important as surgical transition when it comes to alleviating gender dysphoria.

The recurring theme in each of my points stems from this: 

You aren't giving trans and gender non conforming people the respect they deserve, your positions mostly come from a place of thinking you know more about THEM, THEIR bodies, and THEIR beliefs and actions. It's never wise to assume you know more about people that you are Not, and this case isn't special. 

I wasn't confusing sex and gender, I purposefully said sex to clarify what I meant but that clearly wasn't good enough. I flit between talking about sex, gender and gender identity. It should be obvious when I do this as I will use the different terms freely. My overall point is that as long as you are happy with your biological sex and have no plans to change it or wish that you'd been born differently, then that biological sex will be your defining identity to the world when push comes to shove. It will decide what bathroom you use, what changing room you use, what dorm room you use, what gender segregated space you use, what box you tick when a form asks for your sex. What you want to be defined as should be helped along by how you present yourself as well. You can't expect to be called female if you choose to present as male and vice versa. Really, it's of no interest to most of us what your preferred identification is and it makes no difference to how we communicate with you. When we're talking to you, we'll hardly have to use pronouns anyway, we may not even have to use your name, so what's the big deal? Problem is, when you start impressing upon people what you want to be called and expect them to just conform without a word of complaint, it opens it up to people who will take advantage of the system, like the guy who started asking everyone to call him Your Majesty, claiming that was his preferred form of address, that was his identity and everyone should respect it. Of course you'll say that's clearly a ridiculous case that shouldn't be taken seriously but that just shows that you think there is a limit on what people should be allowed to identify as, almost as if you think there's an unspoken rule in society that there's very limited acceptable ways to expect to be addressed.

If the majority of non-binary people just wanted to live their lives like everyone else, they wouldn't be drawing attention to themselves all the time and constantly speaking about their identity. It's because they got so vocal that we're even aware of terms like non-binary now. If you'd said to me "what are your pronouns and how do you identify?" just a few years ago, I wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about. I'd assume you were talking about nationality or something. It's pretty undeniable that this situation has come about because someone dreamed up an idea and society let them run with it and its got out of hand now. A lot of these people are suffering from chronic uniqueness, just desperate to be different because it makes them feel special. I notice that it's extremely rare to find someone from a non-conforming gender identity that has had a great life. They always have strict parents/bad childhood/have been bullied/have mental health issues and sometimes, a mixture of all of them. It suggests that there's something much bigger going on here than gender identity. It's someone mentally damaged looking for a group that makes them belong, searching for acceptance and love. I know, I've been there. To a certain extent, I'm still there. But I've found that the only way out of that is inner acceptance, not hiding under made-up gender identities. Letting your gender define who you are as a person and thinking about it constantly, day and night, isn't the way to go to finding inner peace.

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PartySick

Alright, we're going to lock this mess for a while since a lot of important points have been made and this particular conversation has run its course.

Time to sort through a billion reports :ally:

Remember, different life styles or not, we respect each other here.

On a personal note, this is supposed to be an open and caring place and it makes me happy to see so many members willing to defend our non-binary family :heart:

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