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Only 5 Jews left in Cairo

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Faysalaaa
4 minutes ago, ladylinners said:

What statement is this?!  About the joining part, it has to do with believing in God, and adhering to Jewish religion and culture. If you want to become Jewish is not hard, it's about believing in the same values and traditions and becoming part of the community. Yes, it's a process but the most important part of conversion is the commitment to living as a Jew. It also different between communities on how a conversion takes places depeding on if it's Orthodox or liberal community. 

And the 'refuse to grow the population of their religion and race part' WTF?!  I don't even know how to respond to this..... Shall we talk about Christianity which has been forced upon people for centuries? Christianity was not a choice for millions of people. I'm a Christian born and raised, however I do NOT believe in God (and have not since I was five because of personal reasons but I still have gone to Bible school and did my Communion). When I mention why I do not believe in God Christians are the most condesending people I have met and try and get my to listen to sermons and give reasons for why I should believe in God. All the Jewish people I have met accept my reasons and support me in my decision and my agnostic beliefs. I'm not going to put ALL Christians under this label but that is my personal experience. Judaism has never been about sharing a religion as much as it emphasies being part of the Jewish community. If you want to become a Jew you can, but it has to be a decision by you and then the commitment to live as a Jew. 

Unless you live under a rock, the Kurds are in the news as well. 

Do some historic readings.

That's how the United States of America was born. 

The creation of Isreal started with the Balfour Declaration by the British when they still had control over Palestine. The Balfour Declaration recognised the right of the Jews to a "national home" in their ancestral land. Israel is mentioned in the Bible as Canaan. 

There was so much more in play than just Isrealites walking into Palestine and taking the land. 

 

I understand their reasoning, but im explaining why they did not grow as a community which puts them in a bad position historically. Other religions do not get involved in how you convert into their religion and accept everyone. They dont care if your mother is a certain religion and they dont monitor how you live your daily life being part of the religion. No religion scholar can deny converting to the religion, only Jews do this.

And yes Christianity and Islam forced itself on other people which Jews do not do, im not saying who is wrong or right, im simply explaining why they have been persecuted historically.

It is as simple as Israelites walking into palestine and taking the land, I dont care who gave them permission to take the land and legalize their crimes, I care about what actually happened.  I dont know what the Kurds have to do with our discussion, please explain..

 

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ladylinners
14 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

I would also agree that I should not say Jews, I should say Zionists. I did use the wrong word but I dont hate Jews. I know alot of Jews since I was young from traveling and foreign schools and I used to be friends with them to dare my parents and society. But when it comes to specifically the conflict in Israel, I do get defensive. I dont think the Israeli conflict is debatable but im still open to debate it, but I do not see both sides of the conflict.

I do like that you bring this up, as Zionism is a political movement. Just as every religious group can have a more political strain.

 

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ladylinners
10 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

I understand their reasoning, but im explaining why they did not grow as a community which puts them in a bad position historically. Other religions do not get involved in how you convert into their religion and accept everyone. They dont care if your mother is a certain religion and they dont monitor how you live your daily life being part of the religion. No religion scholar can deny converting to the religion, only Jews do this.

And yes Christianity and Islam forced itself on other people which Jews do not do, im not saying who is wrong or right, im simply explaining why they have been persecuted historically.

It is as simple as Israelites walking into palestine and taking the land, I dont care who gave them permission to take the land and legalize their crimes, I care about what actually happened.  I dont know what the Kurds have to do with our discussion, please explain..

 

I did edit away the Kurds part as I did not see it as part of the discussion. You did bring up Kurds in your first post and how they are prosecuted as well and not talked about. The persecution of Kurds is something that is brought up in the news. I also have Kurdish friends. There are many groups that are persecuted for their beliefs. 

There is also more to persecution than not "growing their religion". Jews have been persecuted because of sterotypes and prejudice. That's what led to the Holocaust. 

The Isreal-Palestine conflict is complicated, and I am personally very torn about it as I have Jewish friends who talk about Isreal and I have Palestinian friends. Still it is not as simple as walking in and taking the land. Did the Zionists take advantage of the Balfour Declaration? Yes, they did. Did they take advantage of the UN mandate? Yes, they did. But the history of Eretz Yisreal is long, and it does not refer to as the State of Israel but the Land of Israel. I also find it incredibly wrong of the UN to suggest giving away Palestine and create the state of Israel. In the early 20th century the British tried giving Zionist Kenya. That's wrong. But there is so much history to this conflict.

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Faysalaaa
17 minutes ago, ladylinners said:

I did edit away the Kurds part as I did not see it as part of the discussion. You did bring up Kurds in your first post and how they are prosecuted as well and not talked about. The persecution of Kurds is something that is brought up in the news. I also have Kurdish friends. There are many groups that are persecuted for their beliefs. 

There is also more to persecution than not "growing their religion". Jews have been persecuted because of sterotypes and prejudice. That's what led to the Holocaust. 

The Isreal-Palestine conflict is complicated, and I am personally very torn about it as I have Jewish friends who talk about Isreal and I have Palestinian friends. Still it is not as simple as walking in and taking the land. Did the Zionists take advantage of the Balfour Declaration? Yes, they did. Did they take advantage of the UN mandate? Yes, they did. But the history of Eretz Yisreal is long, and it does not refer to as the State of Israel but the Land of Israel. I also find it incredibly wrong of the UN to suggest giving away Palestine and create the state of Israel. In the early 20th century the British tried giving Zionist Kenya. That's wrong. But there is so much history to this conflict.

Yes kurds are persecuted for a very long time and many groups in the Middle East I know of. I love Kurds too and extremely respect them for what they did considering they have no power. Kurds already own and live in the land they claim so I would support giving it to them. And yes I agree there is more reasons why Jews are persecuted, but they would have been strong if they expanded their religion specially that Judaism is extremely known religion.

While I dont think the conflict is complicated, I dont see the point of debating this. We should find a real solution for both sides and that I think is complicated.

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ladylinners
2 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

Yes kurds are persecuted for a very long time and many groups in the Middle East I know of. I love Kurds too and extremely respect them for what they did considering they have no power. Kurds already own and live in the land they claim so I would support giving it to them. And yes I agree there is more reasons why Jews are persecuted, but they would have been strong if they expanded their religion specially that Judaism is extremely known religion.

I don't think anyone should have to expand their religion to not be persecuted. Faith should not have to be about strenght in numbers. If you truly have faith in your God you should not have to seek others to join to see the "right way". You should be able to accept that others have other beliefs and not persecute someone based on these beliefs (I'm using the word 'you' as a reference to Christianity as I have little knowledge about Islam and its history).  

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Faysalaaa
1 minute ago, ladylinners said:

I don't think anyone should have to expand their religion to not be persecuted. Faith should not have to be about strenght in numbers. If you truly have faith in your God you should not have to seek others to join to see the "right way". You should be able to accept that others have other beliefs and not persecute someone based on these beliefs (I'm using the word 'you' as a reference to Christianity as I have little knowledge about Islam and its history).  

But that is not how the world works specially in the past. It is a fact that if you do not grow and dominate, people will kill you and you will be extinct. Im not talking about morality, religion, or whats right or wrong, im talking about historical facts and politics. Its sad but its true but im glad we live in a better world today (kinda). Also, Jews not only are strict about who is Jewish, they are also strict about who is ethnically Jewish.

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ladylinners
Just now, Faysalaaa said:

But that is not how the world works specially in the past. It is a fact that if you do not grow and dominate, people will kill you and you will be extinct. Im not talking about morality, religion, or whats right or wrong, im talking about historical facts and politics. Its sad but its true but im glad we live in a better world today (kinda). Also, Jews not only are strict about who is Jewish, they are also strict about who is ethnically Jewish.

I know that's how it worked in the past, hence why Christianity grew from a cult to the largest religion in the world. Religion is what is most used to make people fight in the name of ideals and that is still ongoing today.   

That is because Judism is an ethnic religion and not a universal religion. Ethnic religions are associated with ethnic groups. Hence, why it is more focus on the commitment to being a Jew. 

 

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Faysalaaa
25 minutes ago, ladylinners said:

I know that's how it worked in the past, hence why Christianity grew from a cult to the largest religion in the world. Religion is what is most used to make people fight in the name of ideals and that is still ongoing today.   

That is because Judism is an ethnic religion and not a universal religion. Ethnic religions are associated with ethnic groups. Hence, why it is more focus on the commitment to being a Jew. 

 

I disagree religion is the cause of conflict and fighting. People will do their crimes regardless of the existence of religion, they just use religion which is very subjective to easily justify their actions. If islam did not exist, you will still have ISIS members fighting in the name of something else. Nobody really kills because of religion, they kill because they want to and then find something like religion to blame it on.

Yes Judaism is a ethnic religion which is why they have been persecuted historically, only when the world changed recently (kinda) were they allowed to be respected as a minority.

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River

Can we just realize that both Israel and Palestine should co-exist and both are here to stay?

It doesn't matter anymore who was first, history was made, mistakes were made, time to move on, just like no one is going to remove all the Americans from the States and give it back to the Natives.. so like stop moving in circles about this issue..

no one is going to move 9 million or 3 million people, to do that you need to kill one of the 2 populations or to move them by force.

If everyone will stop living under the propaganda of US and Iran and their minions Netanyahu and Hamas/Fatah, maybe things will start to be better.

To hate one another is not the solution, everyone needs to except the other side existence and just build a good relationships that can bring both sides good life.

 

 

I'm not serious 99% of the times ;)
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Didymus
2 hours ago, River said:

Can we just realize that both Israel and Palestine should co-exist and both are here to stay?

It doesn't matter anymore who was first, history was made, mistakes were made, time to move on, just like no one is going to remove all the Americans from the States and give it back to the Natives.. so like stop moving in circles about this issue..

The difference is that Israel is still, as we speak, breaking international laws unpunished. This isn't some residue frustration over events of the past, this is going on right now :emma: So pulling the co-existence card can only mean that Palestinians have to surrender. It's not as neutral as you think.

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Didymus

And before someone quotes me saying I didn't respond to the topic at hand: I don't find it very interesting. Someone passing is always difficult for family members and friends but, like the article says plainly, the Jewish community in Cairo vanished because it moved to Israel, not as the result of persecution or whatever.

So I don't even get the purpose of this thread: are we supposed to be sad that this woman passed or that too many Jews moved to Israel? :flop:

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River
3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

The difference is that Israel is still, as we speak, breaking international laws unpunished. This isn't some residue frustration over events of the past, this is going on right now :emma: So pulling the co-existence card can only mean that Palestinians have to surrender. It's not as neutral as you think.

They are both breaking international laws and unpunished.. do you think anyone got punished for murdering my mom, the person who shot the rocket? no.. no one, like no one is being punished for bombing kids in Gaza.

All those war criminals walking free, both sides leaders, US, Iran, all of them are part of it.

Co-existence is when both will surrender, give back the lands and the border, kick out the settlements, stop the violence and so on..

 

I'm not serious 99% of the times ;)
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Maleficent

it’s such a shame seeing a tradition and bloodline die. hope it never happens to my family name and lineage. 

Spoiler

title sounds like a coldplay lyric tho 

 

I'm not a witch, I'm a love technician

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Didymus
Just now, River said:

They are both breaking international laws and unpunished

Again, there's a difference though. Israel is a member of the UN and is diplomatically recognized by the biggest Western states. Palestine is not. Obviously Israel has a bigger responsibility to make sure they don't blatantly break the rules they have sworn to live by :messga:

5 minutes ago, River said:

Co-existence is when both will surrender, give back the lands and the border, kick out the settlements, stop the violence and so on..

That does sound nice.

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CrazyMonster

@Melech I’m so sorry to see that this thread has turned into a mess :(

‘If religion be the cause of disunity, then irreligion is surely to be preferred.’ ‘Abdu’l-Bahá
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