This stan has just lost it #Beychella

[JohnnyVersace 8,535]

39 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the second time you've brought up the idea of Gaga fans being racist. Besides a very small amount of it on Twitter, I have never seen any instances of this, subtle or overt, especially on GGD. Racists really aren't taken lightly here, they would get sussed out so quickly (and even perfectly innocent people get accused too *raises hand*). But I see this racist idea flung around so frequently here that I'm convinced certain people just confuse disliking a black celebrity (with good reason, I might add) with racism. They aren't the same thing. It's frankly insulting to our intelligence to suggest that skin colour is the only reason why we might dislike someone. This is celebrity culture, there's umpteen reasons you can have for disliking someone. My list for disliking Beyonce are as long as your arm and skin colour ain't one (pun sorta kinda not intended). No wonder the Beyhive is known to be such an entitled fanbase at times - they think being racist is the only reason anyone could dislike their idol. Of course tension will be high when that's the line you take.

I am genuinely interested in what your definition of racism is because its really astounding me when I see multiple posts like this. The majority of people I see criticising Beyonce are being perfectly reasonable and using the same criticism on white popstars who do the same things. But it seems there's different standards for Beyonce. Far and honest criticism equals bigotry in the modern world, apparently. Surely an equal society means everyone should get their fair share of criticism, right?

A bit defensive sis. 

I'm sorry, but if you can't acknowledge that a large amount of people dislike Beyonce because of her overt blackness, then you're part of the problem. Especially with Homecoming, a large part of Beyonce's artistry celebrates her skin color, the history of her people, and race relations in the modern world. This makes some people very uncomfortable (generally white people), as they don't believe that blackness should be celebrated, but rather not discussed so as to not draw attention to it and "move on" from history. That's a problem, and is, at its core...racist. 

As for you not seeing instances of it, perhaps you're not looking close enough. I literally was in a multi-page thread the other day with some asshat who was going on and on about "not liking" the whole "black excellence thing." Don't try to tell me that it's not a real thing, among LM's or otherwise, because it most definitely is. 

I'm not saying that the only reason to dislike Beyonce is because of racism. What I'm saying is that I have encountered a lot of people in my real life, and on here, who "just don't like her" and once black excellence, or culture, or history get brought up, they get real hot and heated and aggressive. And it's clear that they're uncomfortable with the topic, and would rather her be silent then celebrate her heritage or address the problems in our world. Ignorance is bliss I guess. 

[Infinity Wave 7,617]

50 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Tell me about it. I think that we must be the only fanbase out there who doesn't routinely support their fave. You'd never get fans of Beyonce, Britney and Madonna being so harsh on their fave on their dedicated fan forums. Now, sure, they take it way too far but at least they're actually acting like supportive fans. When I see Gaga fans picking up on stupid little things and saying other artists are much better performers than her despite the fact that these artists don't do the same amount of stuff Gaga does on stage truly baffles me. I've also seen them accept blatantly basic music from other artists but accuse Gaga of being boring because she released an album close to her heart and some are still asking for The Fame part 2.  Thankfully, judging by the sales of ASIB, not every fan wants her to regress and wants her to make music that she wants to make.

That's exaclty my point!

We should support Gaga but many of us always express deconstructive criticism nontheless. While there not one single person on here who can move a critic to Bey without getting yelles at for being racist and everything, like if Bey is untouchable but Gaga can be always criticized in the harshest ways.

[StrawberryBlond 13,256]

34 minutes ago, JohnnyVersace said:

A bit defensive sis. 

I'm sorry, but if you can't acknowledge that a large amount of people dislike Beyonce because of her overt blackness, then you're part of the problem. Especially with Homecoming, a large part of Beyonce's artistry celebrates her skin color, the history of her people, and race relations in the modern world. This makes some people very uncomfortable (generally white people), as they don't believe that blackness should be celebrated, but rather not discussed so as to not draw attention to it and "move on" from history. That's a problem, and is, at its core...racist. 

As for you not seeing instances of it, perhaps you're not looking close enough. I literally was in a multi-page thread the other day with some asshat who was going on and on about "not liking" the whole "black excellence thing." Don't try to tell me that it's not a real thing, among LM's or otherwise, because it most definitely is. 

I'm not saying that the only reason to dislike Beyonce is because of racism. What I'm saying is that I have encountered a lot of people in my real life, and on here, who "just don't like her" and once black excellence, or culture, or history get brought up, they get real hot and heated and aggressive. And it's clear that they're uncomfortable with the topic, and would rather her be silent then celebrate her heritage or address the problems in our world. Ignorance is bliss I guess. 

There's nothing wrong with being defensive, especially if you've been accused of being bigoted (not saying you accused me of that, but other people).

"A large amount of people" is an exaggeration. But even if it isn't, that large amount won't be pop music followers, they'll be people who don't follow current culture or research it. It's a myth to say that white people are "uncomfortable" with a celebration of blackness. Most of us have no problem with it, it's just not in our culture to shout from the rooftops that we're doing something from our culture. We just do it without fanfare, without making a song and dance about it. But a big part of black culture today is about throwing it in people's faces, mentioning its intentions constantly. There's no need. Just do it without stating what you're doing because it's obvious. Black culture is naturally woven throughout society anyway, we don't need to be told what we're looking at. The first step to normalising black culture is to make it...normal. Everyday. A staple. Not something that has to be constantly eluded to and sensationalised. Sensationalising it only makes it seem more unusual. Admit it, if any white person with say, Irish heritage, walked around all day saying: "My name's Roisin - cause I'm Irish!" or "I'm drinking whiskey - cause I'm Irish!" or "I love U2 - cause I'm Irish!"...you'd probably find them a bit odd at best, annoyingly pretentious at worst. Now imagine they made a whole album about being Irish, (actually, only 2 songs on Lemonade were about being black, but just go with it) complete with visual cues. Would you never stop to think that their behaviour was a little bit excessive? Make no mistake, people are free to indulge in their culture and love their people, but just don't be extra about it. I loved black culture long before the current wave of it and it was so much easier to enjoy back then because it was a lot more down-to-earth and inclusive and didn't take itself so seriously. Now it feels like it's not for me or any other non-black person (that includes other POC too, remember) and is so pretentious and thinks its saying more than it really is. Far from being a history lesson, it's about the artist's ego, disguised as black empowerment, Formation being a case in point. How it duped people into thinking it was a song for all blacks when it was clearly just about Beyonce herself if you really pay attention to the lyrics, is mind-boggling. A lot of so-called "empowering" black music these days is just the same old stereotypes and really cringey lyrics, Formation again. If I were black, I would want far better stuff representing my people than this.

I can't speak on this specific case you speak of, but I will say that not liking the term "black excellence" doesn't need to be a racist viewpoint. I don't like it because it sounds so arrogant and racially supremacist and I'd say that for any race. I'd certainly never use the term "white excellence" and yes, I know we have no reason to use that term but still. I know this isn't the aim of such a term but I still don't like it even so. If you're going to use a term like that, perhaps "black girl magic" or something is ok. But inserting a race before the word "excellence" just doesn't sit right with me. I'm not here for any form of racial supremacy or any vague allusions to it.

Some people are just inept at expressing their thoughts, it doesn't mean there isn't real, non-racist reasons there. Most people I've encountered who say they have a problem with her ultimately comes down to "she thinks she's better than everyone now" and they just struggled to put it into words. Trust me, a racist will just be straight up with their feelings about a black artist and it'll involve a lot more slurs and ignorance than your average person who merely just thinks she's not all that. Plenty of people have the same "just don't like them" reaction to lots of white artists. Why is it only an issue when it happens to black artists?

[Pray4FameGa 3,141]

On 4/18/2019 at 10:08 PM, Sky Juil said:

 I watched Homecoming last night (somewhat distractedly). I saw where the man came onstage between songs and told everyone to call it Beychella instead of Coachella. It was part of the show. I assumed it was simply a way for Beyonce's fans  to refer to the Beyonce at Coachella performance, nothing more. Anyone making it any more than that is stretching reality.

Same! I was shook and cringed hard. It’s basically being the self proclaimed queen of pop. Respect is earned, not demanded.

Though in her defence it worked anyway (facepalms).

[WildAmerican 13,672]

Not him saying "get a life" lmao 

the hypocrisy JUMPED!

[LilyLark 9,694]

On 4/20/2019 at 10:23 AM, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the second time you've brought up the idea of Gaga fans being racist. Besides a very small amount of it on Twitter, I have never seen any instances of this, subtle or overt, especially on GGD. Racists really aren't taken lightly here, they would get sussed out so quickly (and even perfectly innocent people get accused too *raises hand*). But I see this racist idea flung around so frequently here that I'm convinced certain people just confuse disliking a black celebrity (with good reason, I might add) with racism. They aren't the same thing. It's frankly insulting to our intelligence to suggest that skin colour is the only reason why we might dislike someone. This is celebrity culture, there's umpteen reasons you can have for disliking someone. My list for disliking Beyonce are as long as your arm and skin colour ain't one (pun sorta kinda not intended). No wonder the Beyhive is known to be such an entitled fanbase at times - they think being racist is the only reason anyone could dislike their idol. Of course tension will be high when that's the line you take.

I am genuinely interested in what your definition of racism is because its really astounding me when I see multiple posts like this. The majority of people I see criticising Beyonce are being perfectly reasonable and using the same criticism on white popstars who do the same things. But it seems there's different standards for Beyonce. Far and honest criticism equals bigotry in the modern world, apparently. Surely an equal society means everyone should get their fair share of criticism, right?

Tell me about it. I think that we must be the only fanbase out there who doesn't routinely support their fave. You'd never get fans of Beyonce, Britney and Madonna being so harsh on their fave on their dedicated fan forums. Now, sure, they take it way too far but at least they're actually acting like supportive fans. When I see Gaga fans picking up on stupid little things and saying other artists are much better performers than her despite the fact that these artists don't do the same amount of stuff Gaga does on stage truly baffles me. I've also seen them accept blatantly basic music from other artists but accuse Gaga of being boring because she released an album close to her heart and some are still asking for The Fame part 2.  Thankfully, judging by the sales of ASIB, not every fan wants her to regress and wants her to make music that she wants to make.

Hey, I do think sometimes people are too quick to label a fan group racist if they don't like a celebrity. Sometimes people jump on that as  a reason some people are put off of Bey, and it's not true. I don't disagree on that and I'm not going to doxx myself by giving more info, but I'm not white and even I can see that happening sometimes (people getting accused of being racist/sexist for not liking her when sometimes...they just don't like her because she has 72 writers as opposed to Rihanna having 20 or Adele having 11 or Gaga having 9). But A LOT of the time people hate on Bey for being "overtly" Black in her politics or accuse her using her Blackness to sell records or they refuse to recognize that she has a major cultural impact that's important to a lot of Black people.

But I do see way racism and sexism in the fandom at times, and I was disturbed by how many retweets a gross AF racist meme got several days ago by a LM. And sometimes it is on here. It's a small amount of LM, and it's mostly on twitter  tho—that is true. That's what I was trying to get at, not calling all LM racist but saying there is a segment out there and it's f*cked up and annoying because a) it's wrong and b) the few bad apples let people wrongly accuse all LM of being like them (kind of like how Swift's fans got a bad rep because of a handful of insane ones).

[joannesrats 26]

On 4/20/2019 at 1:23 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

This is the second time you've brought up the idea of Gaga fans being racist. Besides a very small amount of it on Twitter, I have never seen any instances of this, subtle or overt, especially on GGD. Racists really aren't taken lightly here, they would get sussed out so quickly (and even perfectly innocent people get accused too *raises hand*). But I see this racist idea flung around so frequently here that I'm convinced certain people just confuse disliking a black celebrity (with good reason, I might add) with racism. They aren't the same thing. It's frankly insulting to our intelligence to suggest that skin colour is the only reason why we might dislike someone. This is celebrity culture, there's umpteen reasons you can have for disliking someone. My list for disliking Beyonce are as long as your arm and skin colour ain't one (pun sorta kinda not intended). No wonder the Beyhive is known to be such an entitled fanbase at times - they think being racist is the only reason anyone could dislike their idol. Of course tension will be high when that's the line you take.

I am genuinely interested in what your definition of racism is because its really astounding me when I see multiple posts like this. The majority of people I see criticising Beyonce are being perfectly reasonable and using the same criticism on white popstars who do the same things. But it seems there's different standards for Beyonce. Far and honest criticism equals bigotry in the modern world, apparently. Surely an equal society means everyone should get their fair share of criticism, right?

Tell me about it. I think that we must be the only fanbase out there who doesn't routinely support their fave. You'd never get fans of Beyonce, Britney and Madonna being so harsh on their fave on their dedicated fan forums. Now, sure, they take it way too far but at least they're actually acting like supportive fans. When I see Gaga fans picking up on stupid little things and saying other artists are much better performers than her despite the fact that these artists don't do the same amount of stuff Gaga does on stage truly baffles me. I've also seen them accept blatantly basic music from other artists but accuse Gaga of being boring because she released an album close to her heart and some are still asking for The Fame part 2.  Thankfully, judging by the sales of ASIB, not every fan wants her to regress and wants her to make music that she wants to make.

The bigger issues are when people are saying that she doesn't write her own music because she can't read or write. I've seen people say that she looks like an ape and is built like a man. All of these types of comments have really deep and racist undertones and weights with them. To me, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, you feel more called out about someone saying that some LMs are racist. I don't mind someone saying this because I see it as being true, but it seems like with how defensive you are you may need to reevaluate some tendencies of your own. Just my opinion and perception, though. 

Truthfully, if anyone can't see the racism and other forms of prejudice within this fanbase then they are part of the problem and are most likely turning a blind eye to it. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,256]

19 hours ago, LilyLark said:

Hey, I do think sometimes people are too quick to label a fan group racist if they don't like a celebrity. Sometimes people jump on that as  a reason some people are put off of Bey, and it's not true. I don't disagree on that and I'm not going to doxx myself by giving more info, but I'm not white and even I can see that happening sometimes (people getting accused of being racist/sexist for not liking her when sometimes...they just don't like her because she has 72 writers as opposed to Rihanna having 20 or Adele having 11 or Gaga having 9). But A LOT of the time people hate on Bey for being "overtly" Black in her politics or accuse her using her Blackness to sell records or they refuse to recognize that she has a major cultural impact that's important to a lot of Black people.

But I do see way racism and sexism in the fandom at times, and I was disturbed by how many retweets a gross AF racist meme got several days ago by a LM. And sometimes it is on here. It's a small amount of LM, and it's mostly on twitter  tho—that is true. That's what I was trying to get at, not calling all LM racist but saying there is a segment out there and it's f*cked up and annoying because a) it's wrong and b) the few bad apples let people wrongly accuse all LM of being like them (kind of like how Swift's fans got a bad rep because of a handful of insane ones).

I see your joke about "all artists have multiple writers" but the plain fact is that Beyonce has way more writers than most and it's well established that she has a team behind her to help her compose her album, they're making the bulk of it and she steps in and just adds stuff here and there. Essentially, what Rihanna does, but with a slight degree more accountability. To me, there's 3 stages of un-involved: Britney level (no involvement), Rihanna level (barely any involvement) and Beyonce level (moderate involvement at best). But that's beside the point.

Trust me, not everyone who's making these criticisms of her being "overtly black" are coming from a place of racism. Some, like me, are just concerned about how this translates to her international fans and I don't just mean whites. Beyonce used to have a huge Asian fanbase (check out how many countries she visited there and how big the venues were on her B'Day tour) but after her Sasha Fierce tour, she just stopped caring. She hasn't toured in Asia in just under a decade. Unsurprisingly, Lemonade, with its messages of loving being black, didn't go over very well there, its Asian sales have just been an afterthought. I don't know, but I think making an album about how great it is to be black and using specific American cultural references and stereotypes in it, isn't really the way to go to gain international sales and support? Maybe this is why it's Beyonce's lowest selling album? Even though the media and fans would have us believe it's the exact opposite? I'm approaching my criticism from a marketing point of view. It caught on like wildfire in the US but internationally? It fell kinda flat. No surprise she only toured NA and Europe with it. Look, I'm a woman and a feminist, but even I'd keep a lid on identity politics if I made an album as I wouldn't want to alienate male fans. And to use the Asian example again, I don't think there's any Asian artists out there making songs about how great is is to be Asian. I think it's a cultural difference across races that just doesn't always connect. For most whites, we think being proud of our race (something we didn't ask to be born as) is strange and maybe other races think the same too. You don't want your fans to hear your work and then think that they shouldn't be singing these songs because "they're not for me." I think that's a very important part of being an artist: never make your fans feel like a certain album is not for them. Most of us wouldn't deny her impact among black people but what I will criticise is that I don't think her music handles this topic as cleverly or well-written as it could be (apart from Freedom). To act like all black people are into the same kind of music and praise Beyonce universally seems a bit odd to me. Black people have all different personalities. To suggest that Beyonce taps into what it means to be black for each and every black person out there is such an overgeneralisation. And, well, she never sang about race until it became a hot topic and became a very lucrative topic in music for black artists. She's suddenly got a lot to say about race when it becomes culturally relevant to do so. It must be noted that I speak all these thought from a purely intellectural standpoint, not a racial one. I criticise because there's something worthy of criticism. I'd never dream of doing something so basic as judging someone on something as superficial as the colour of skin.

I think the problem is colluding GGD members with Gaga fans on Twitter. Most of the time, it isn't the same thing. So, maybe only bring up the racist angle where applicable. You can make a topic complaining about racism on Twitter, but to just say it's a segment of Gaga fans means you're calling us all out across the board, young and old, black and white, online and offline. Complaining about it on GGD makes it seem as if you're pointing the finger at us. I've been on this site everyday for 9 years and can honestly say I've never seen any racism. Maybe some geographical, cultural and religious ignorance (and mostly towards whites and Muslims) but not actual racism, especially not towards blacks. They'd be shut down real fast if they did.

19 hours ago, PhillipBagshaw said:

The bigger issues are when people are saying that she doesn't write her own music because she can't read or write. I've seen people say that she looks like an ape and is built like a man. All of these types of comments have really deep and racist undertones and weights with them. To me, AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION, you feel more called out about someone saying that some LMs are racist. I don't mind someone saying this because I see it as being true, but it seems like with how defensive you are you may need to reevaluate some tendencies of your own. Just my opinion and perception, though. 

Truthfully, if anyone can't see the racism and other forms of prejudice within this fanbase then they are part of the problem and are most likely turning a blind eye to it. 

I'd never condone any of those things and ok, if that's what you're talking about, then, ok, that's a problem. It's not that I'm against such behaviour being called out, I just think it's excessive to complain about it on GGD in very general terms as if this a problem with Gaga fans across the board, when it's actually a very small subsection of the community on a very specific site (Twitter). As a general rule, you shouldn't judge a fanbase purely on Twitter output because that sire can be a cesspit when stan wars begin and most fans in real life are not like that. To keep on using "some Gaga fans are racist" as a trump card over and over in every argument about Beyonce is really tiresome when we're talking about a very small group and one that doesn't even exist on GGD. I'm defensive not because I myself have any problematic tendencies but because I'm someone who strives to present the truth in any given situation and I don't like exaggerations about groups of people. It's not personal defence, it's defence of the reality of a situation. If you want to call out specific instances of racism within the fanbase, then fine. But to act like this is a widespread issue that needs to be addressed just isn't realistic. There's not a higher amount of racists in Gaga's fanbase. In fact, there's probably less than there are in other fanbases, considering Gaga has always been highly supportive of black people throughout her entire career as well as every oppressed minority. Not something that really appeals to the average racist.