Slate: "Michael Jackson defenders are starting to sound like flat-earthers"

[Regina George 59,387]

6 minutes ago, symphonia said:

His obsession with little boys, he was not attracted to young girls. 

He had little girls at neverland ALL THE TIME. It just goes well to say that only boys were there considering rumors of him being gay and we know media loves to change facts. Just take a moment of your day to see his home videos and that there were girls also. Don’t believe everything your read online. He was not some evil boy obsessed rapist. 

[monster4life231 4,304]

40 minutes ago, ReginaGeorge said:

People who accused him said he had rooms full of his **** videos with children, they said that he collected their underwear, they said they have proof recorded on security cameras, they said they could draw his penis accurately, they said he had secret rooms at neverland where he would have sex with kids, they said he has pictures of him having sex with kids, they said that he has lube all around the house and many other physical evidence that were NEVER found. I mean not even ONE picture or a video or a security camera recording (I need to mention that it was proven that there were no recordings missing) was found. It’s extremely (and I mean EXTREMELY) hard to hide or destroy those things without ANY evidence of it ever existing when you are MJ and when you have hundreds of people working with you in the house. Those are the evidence that people need to see and when I see just one legit picture or recording (that many claimed existed) I will gladly apologize to anyone that I ever doubted. 

Thank you. 

[monster4life231 4,304]

51 minutes ago, Dominic said:

What evidence do his fans wanna see though? How the hell are you gonna get physical evidence? It's silly to expect some form of tangible proof. All we have are the victims words, which in every other recent case is enough but funnily enough it isn't now. Doesn't make sense. 

It's not just the physical evidence, it's how the timeline does not add up, and the past actions of the accusers which damage their credibility.

[yxi 4,999]

2 hours ago, ReginaGeorge said:

He had little girls at neverland ALL THE TIME. It just goes well to say that only boys were there considering rumors of him being gay and we know media loves to change facts. Just take a moment of your day to see his home videos and that there were girls also. Don’t believe everything your read oine. 

Did he sent them love notes too, slept in the same bed and groomed them and their entire families ? Did he took these young girls on tour with him, separated them from their families for extended periods of time and walked with them holding hands ? Or was that just something he did only with his little boy friends that he replaced each time they became too old for his liking ? Seems like he had special relationships only with young boys, I wonder why...

[monster4life231 4,304]

3 minutes ago, ReginaGeorge said:

He had little girls at neverland ALL THE TIME. It just goes well to say that only boys were there considering rumors of him being gay and we know media loves to change facts. Just take a moment of your day to see his home videos and that there were girls also. Don’t believe everything your read online. He was not some evil boy obsessed rapist. 

To prove your point.

"MJ only spent time with white boys around the age of 10".

Reality:

[Regina George 59,387]

6 minutes ago, symphonia said:

Did he sent them love notes too, slept in the same bed and groomed them and their entire families ? Did he took these young girls on tour with him and walked with them holding hands ? Or was that just something he did only with his little boy friends that he replaced each time they became too old for his liking ? 

What love notes? You are saying that as if it’s something groundbreaking. Read them. Some of them literally say “Hope you have a great day at school. You can achive your dreams. Love Applehead” (his nickname). If that is something that indicates that he has sexual relationship with those kids then I have no words. Sleeping in a bed doesn’t mean having sex or making live (get that straight). Groomed them? For what? Literally? For the matter of facts he did have girls on tour with him. Look it up. They didn’t became “too old” they became “less free” to go on a tour with him or visit him or whatever. They went to universities, got job, families, etc - and even then they used his houses and stuff. 

[Didymus 32,703]

@ReginaGeorge

Obviously we're not in the same "camp" but thanks for setting some people straight. There really is no reason for people to bully others who believe in Michael's innocence or to connect that belief to pedophilia apologism or any of that crap

Granted, there are some members who defend Michael who are clearly not well informed about child abuse and will make very problematic and flat out wrong statements about it to defend him (ex. "how can they suddenly remember they were abused, that doesn't happen!") but that doesn't represent everyone.

We can never allow ourselves to be sure of something like this without concrete evidence. So it would also really please me to see people move away from the yes or no format and simply discuss the evidence we do have (for both camps) and discuss how we interpret it. But oh well. People love a good story to fight over.

[monster4life231 4,304]

2 minutes ago, symphonia said:

Did he sent them love notes too, slept in the same bed and groomed them and their entire families ? Did he took these young girls on tour with him and walked with them holding hands ? Or was that just something he did only with his little boy friends that he replaced each time they became too old for his liking ? 

Um the "love" notes? This is ridiculous. Russell Brand wrote me a message on a piece of paper saying "[my name], you're great, love from Russell" and I wouldn't consider that creepy. My maths teacher used to send me cards with love hearts and kisses and I didn't find that creepy. 

The sleeping issue is crazy. If you listen to Culkin describe "sleeping" with MJ you're going to get a completely different picture. 

The idea that MJ was "grooming" the families is stupid. Many families that were close to MJ have explained that they all spent time with him with their children and it was completely innocent.

The documentary also references how MJ "moved onto" Culkin and Brett Barnes, even though both of them have always defended him. 

[Regina George 59,387]

1 minute ago, Didymus said:

@ReginaGeorge

Obviously we're not in the same "camp" but thanks for setting some people straight. There really is no reason for people to bully others who believe in Michael's innocence or to connect that belief to pedophilia apologism or any of that crap

Granted, there are some members who defend Michael who are clearly not well informed about child abuse and will make very problematic and flat out wrong statements about it to defend him (ex. "how can they suddenly remember they were abused, that doesn't happen!") but that doesn't represent everyone.

We can never allow ourselves to be sure of something like this without concrete evidence. So it would also really please me to see people move away from the yes or no format and simply discuss the evidence we do have (for both camps) and discuss how we interpret it. But oh well. People love a good story to fight over.

Thank you for this! I appreciate that! I honestly do  I completely agree with you and like I said this is something than no one can be 100% sure about. It’s okay to have discussion about something but to bully someone for their opinion or for the way they are thinking is NEVER okay. 

[Didymus 32,703]

1 minute ago, monster4life231 said:

My maths teacher used to send me cards with love hearts and kisses and I didn't find that creepy.

That is low-key very creepy though

2 minutes ago, monster4life231 said:

The sleeping issue is crazy. If you listen to Culkin describe "sleeping" with MJ you're going to get a completely different picture. 

The idea that MJ was "grooming" the families is stupid. Many families that were close to MJ have explained that they all spent time with him with their children and it was completely innocent.

The documentary also references how MJ "moved onto" Culkin and Brett Barnes, even though both of them have always defended him. 

As much as I don't technically disagree with you, I believe the documentary's director is also right when he says that even an overwhelming majority of positive stories about an abuser still doesn't mean that one story about abuse is wrong

You're right though, things like the love letters etc. don't prove anything in and of themselves. But that also means that it might not be that relevant to point out that other kids said Michael never touched them. That in and of themselves also does not bear on Michael's guilt in the case of other children. We just don't know.

[AgusPop 4,064]

36 minutes ago, symphonia said:

His obsession with little boys, he was not attracted to young girls. 

I see more girls than boys but the homophobic media only talks about boys because that sells better

[Didymus 32,703]

4 minutes ago, AgusPop said:

I see more girls than boys but the homophobic media only talks about boys because that sales better 

I think that has to do more with the fact that no girl has ever come forward about being sexually abused. I also don't think he ever shared beds with girls or spent one-on-one time with them at Neverland (or anywhere else). I could be wrong though. Just think that is a solid explanation for why girls often go unmentioned.

[AgusPop 4,064]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I think that has to do more with the fact that no girl has ever come forward about being sexually abused. I also don't think he ever shared beds with girls or spent one-on-one time with them at Neverland. I could be wrong though. Just think that is a solid explanation for why girls often go unmentioned.

the same answer: that sells  better because people believe MJ was gay.  and I know that gay is not equal to pedophilia. but that's what stupid people believe.

[Regina George 59,387]

2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

I think that has to do more with the fact that no girl has ever come forward about being sexually abused. I also don't think he ever shared beds with girls or spent one-on-one time with them at Neverland (or anywhere else). I could be wrong though. Just think that is a solid explanation for why girls often go unmentioned.

I think the real reason is because rumors of him being gay is probably more controversial topic so those boys were just great opportunity to sell more. Also it didn’t help that only boys accused him. Girls also slept on the bed with him and even Wades sister did (she said that in the documentary). 

[DC 25,164]

5 hours ago, Chop said:

Tbh his music should be banned from youtube, spotify, etc.

No