Lady Gaga's deposition in Kesha/Luke case

[A Hybrid 10,959]

49 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

The fact that you need to create another situation proves that your point is not that strong. We are talking about a particular case: Kesha states that she was raped (I'm not saying she was or she wasn't) and Gaga said she must be trusted because she is a rape survivor. Realistically, juridically this (sadly) doesn't prove anything. By this logic, anyone must be trusted by any judge and trials would be pointless.

Then again, I loved Gaga's braved and passionated speech but I do think she was wrong. We also know how affective she is and how affective people prefer harmony over justice.

No, Gaga said these things are always kept secret because of how the industry works and that she’s brave to ever come out, that it shouldn’t be questioned why she didn’t come out before. It’s expert testimony, she’s in the industry and is a survivor, it should neutralize the doubt that Kesha may be lying (at least for these reasons).

I gave another example not because I couldn’t argue on this one, but because we don’t know what actually happened here and I would’ve had to use “if it happened” and so on everywhere, and I didn’t want to do that. 

[Killa 14,404]

This works better than pernhub

Ha power

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

9 minutes ago, Kimblue said:

WOW That is disgusting.

Please be careful with the words you are using. I know you are decent user so I believe you used that word in regard to the idea and not me but if you are not going to contribute to a debate and give a 4 words reply with insults and bad words it's better to hold you back from quoting.

7 minutes ago, A Hybrid said:

No, Gaga said these things are always kept secret because of how the industry works and that she’s brave to ever come out, that it shouldn’t be questioned why she didn’t come out before. It’s expert testimony, she’s in the industry and is a survivor, it should neutralize the doubt that Kesha may be lying (at least for these reasons).

I gave another example not because I couldn’t argue on this one, but because we don’t know what actually happened here and I would’ve had to use “if it happened” and so on everywhere, and I didn’t want to do that. 

She used those arguments to prove the idea that someone that comes forwards with a rape accusation must be trusted and the possibilities of them lyeing being ignored.

[Alexmeishaonv 210]

God this is horrible! Imagine what she was going through, is this part of the reason she had her big fibro flare up and had to cancel  rock in rio and recover for a long time? The mental stress from this and physical stress from the tour must have worn her out

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

12 minutes ago, lego said:

 

You said it’s better to have someone guilty walk free. So rapists should walk free and do what they want, that’s better than hypothetically having someone innocent in prison. If it’s one of the other, free rapists definitely ruin more lives and they’re dangerous to society. 

Also spare me with “too emotionally involved”, jury makes decisions based on their sympathy all the time. It’s not irrational to want to see criminals behind bars.  

1. You can't sentece someone because of possibilities, assumptions or emotions  . If you think it's better to have someone guilty in prison than someone guilty free, sorry but that is not setting your priorities right/.The feeling of injustice felt by someone that spends life from their own life in prison being innocent is the maximum of injustice, it needs to be avoided and is avoided in every healthy juridical system. How about sending to prison evryone that ''seems like he could rape someone''? 

2. True, juries make mistakes and judge on sympathy very often. This doesn't make it right.

[A Hybrid 10,959]

3 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

She used those arguments to prove the idea that someone that comes forwards with a rape accusation must be trusted and the possibilities of them lyeing being ignored.

First off I wanna say that I understand how it’s like to have the whole community against you and you aren’t suggesting something “disgusting” so let’s keep it down guys.

But are you even reading what I wrote? She testified that it’s hard to come out and even harder in the music industry where these things are kept a secret all the time. She didn’t say all survivor claims should be trusted. She just believes that Kesha has no reason to be lying, being somewhat involved in all this. Her testimony is valid, even if it’s not definitive proof. Not everything in court is definitive proof, they are presented so the jury (speaking for the US here) can reach a verdict.

Although I also find it hard to believe Kesha sometimes because she’s too loopy, Gaga believing in her and making sense got me to trust her. But we as fans know little to nothing. Just enjoy Gaga defending a woman she thinks is not being taken seriously in court. We all obviously don’t know more about this issue than Gaga herself.

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

1 minute ago, A Hybrid said:

First off I wanna say that I understand how it’s like to have the whole community against you and you aren’t suggesting something “disgusting” so let’s keep it down guys.

But are you even reading what I wrote? She testified that it’s hard to come out and even harder in the music industry where these things are kept a secret all the time. She didn’t say all survivor claims should be trusted. She just believes that Kesha has no reason to be lying, being somewhat involved in all this. Her testimony is valid, even if it’s not definitive proof. Not everything in court is definitive proof, they are presented so the jury (speaking for the US here) can reach a verdict.

Although I also find it hard to believe Kesha sometimes because she’s too loopy, Gaga believing in her and making sense got me to trust her. But we as fans know little to nothing. Just enjoy Gaga defending a woman she thinks is not being taken seriously in court. We all obviously don’t know more about this issue than Gaga herself.

I understand those arguments but they don't prove anything, they make it more likely that Kesha is right, they are helping Kesha's case but not proving she is right. There is still the doubt and th possibility of her lying - so it's not enough for a sentece. 

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, FfFfFfFF said:

1. You can't sentece someone because of possibilities, assumptions or emotions  . If you think it's better to have someone guilty in prison than someone guilty free, sorry but that is not setting your priorities right/.The feeling of injustice felt by someone that spends life from their own life in prison being innocent is the maximum of injustice, it needs to be avoided and is avoided in every healthy juridical system. How about sending to prison evryone that ''seems like he could rape someone''? 

2. True, juries make mistakes and judge on sympathy very often. This doesn't make it right.

 

 

When it comes to sex crimes, you can’t turn off the emotions of the victim and their loved ones. It’s all about whether jury believes you, there’s almost never enough physical evidence. It’s not all assumptions either when it comes to character of the accused and multiple witnesses of his mistreatment of women. 

For you to say that it’s better for society that guilty of these crimes walks free, that’s really horrific. Do you even care about the victims (and future victims) or it’s all just about reputation of these types of men? 

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

 

When it comes to sex crimes, you can’t turn off the emotions of the victim and their loved ones. It’s all about whether jury believes you, there’s almost never enough physical evidence. It’s not all assumptions either when it comes to character of the accused and multiple witnesses of his mistreatment of women. 

For you to say that it’s better for society that guilty of these crimes walks free, that’s really horrific. Do you even care about the victims (and future victims) or it’s all just about reputation of these types of men? 

Then I ask you, do you even care about people that are senteced to prison while being innocent? That's more horrific.

[Reality 65,696]

Reading this made me both extremely happy, yet extremely sad. I am so happy and proud of Gaga for speaking out about Kesha's assault and trauma. As a survivor herself, she knows what it's like to go through all of this, and I'm just so happy that Gaga is able to help Kesha in any way possible. 

At the same time, it's so disheartening and sad to know that for all of this to happen, Kesha had to go through intense depression, anxiety, and stress because of her assault. That said, hopefully she'll find the strength to continue moving forward. She's already sort of done that with Rainbow, and I just hope that she continues to be a voice for those who have been sexually assaulted/abused. 

[MonsterOfSpain 8,275]

I'm sorry, I can't agree with everything she says. I understand she has gone through sexual assault and how traumatic that experience was for her, but presumption of innocence must always be respected and the victim's word can't be the only proof in a case like this, in my honest opinion  

 

[lego 44,165]

5 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Then I ask you, do you even care about people that are senteced to prison while being innocent? That's more horrific.

 

You don’t have answers so you answer with a question, that’s not an argument.

How is it MORE? Explain your reasoning, I explained mine. Criminals walking free are dangerous to society, they do it once - with impunity, they’ll do it again. There’s literally no justice for victims and future victims and it tells a lot about the system. What’s the point in having trials and prisons anyway, just let anyone do what they want, just so you wouldn’t mistakenly put someone innocent away right??

It is unfortunate, but it does not happen that often and just based on few fake tears.

What happens more often is victim shaming, why she didn’t come out earlier or why she didn’t have whole thing recorded because it’s impossible to prove, especially when it involves powerful men. 

 

[FfFfFfFF 54,014]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

You don’t have answers so you answer with a question, that’s not an argument.

How is it MORE? Explain your reasoning, I explained mine. Criminals walking free are dangerous to society, they do it once - with impunity, they’ll do it again. There’s literally no justice for victims and future victims and it tells a lot about the system. What’s the point in having trials and prisons anyway, just let anyone do what they want, just so you wouldn’t mistakenly put someone innocent away right??

It is unfortunate, but it does not happen that often and just based on few fake tears.

What happens more often is victim shaming, why she didn’t come out earlier or why she didn’t have whole thing recorded because it’s impossible to prove, especially when it involves powerful men. 

 

You were the one who was taking pieces off my post and didn't offer contra-arguents to my arguments. But I won't answer you my reasoning, if you are intersted in it please re-read my previous posts. It's all there.

[Kimblue 7,334]

20 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Then I ask you, do you even care about people that are senteced to prison while being innocent? That's more horrific.

 No having actual rapists roaming free is  more horrific than innocent people in prison. 

[ALGAYDO 26,299]

3 minutes ago, Kimblue said:

 No having actual rapists roaming free is  more horrific than innocent people in prison. 

I don't think you can really equate these two things tho. Although I 100% believe Kesha, always have and always will, he-said-she-said stuff just ain't enough to do anything about Luke.