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Gaga: "I ran away from Stefani & put on a superhero cape called Lady Gaga"

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Ronlop
32 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

She used to be all about the work and not at all about her personal life. That's something to applaud in this industry. I'm not going to applaud her for turning her back on that philosophy now. I don't know why anyone else does, it's weak and superficial. So she's a human being, so what? We all are. That is not some huge revelation to me. Literally every pop star nowadays brags about their mental problems. I think that's vain, insulting and very unhealthy for the fans.

.

At the end of the day, Gaga was given a big platform and she's using it for a good purpose- to help others with their own struggles.

It's not a huge relevation to have mental health issues but so what? She wants to bring something good to this world so even that is met with criticsm?

When she's into a project, she's all about the work. She's super proffesional in that case and always focuses on the work itself. What do you know about her fiance or her mansion in Malibu? What do you know about what she does on the daily basis outside of her work? 

 

 

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OG Gaga Stan
12 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

You are not in a room to judge her for that especially when you didn't go through what she went through but you can be disappointed because you expect something different from her. But again, that's you putting her in a box.

I'm judging the quality of her output. I'm judging her for her lack of ambition musically, her lack of intellectualism, her embracing what she used to mock. I'm a part of the public and she's trying to sell me something. We all have the right to judge her work. I'm not "putting her in a box" when I say that I want something ambitious or intelligent from her. I'm saying that she should work to improve. I'm asking for growth rather than imposing a limitation. The fact that I don't expect work at that level is exactly the problem. :saladga:

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gumzy3000
32 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

 

This sentiment really, really bothers me, and I keep seeing it being repeated over and over again on here in a way that I find really irritating. The idea that original fans at one point did and are currently attempting to own her or control her is disgusting. We did not ever own her, nor did we think we did. We admired her for her own art, her own perspective, and we think she's deliberately sanded off her rough edges to appeal to a broader audience in a way that we find inauthentic. It's not that we don't want her to "grow" (god, I'd love some genuine, intellectual growth and ambition out of the next Gaga album); it's that we don't buy this development as "growth." It feels like she's sliding into conformity, becoming like every other rich white celebrity that palls around with other millionaires at cocktail parties that she  mocked and rebelled against in her early work. I don't find that to be "growth" or an indication of newfound "maturity."

But everyone changes as they grow older and they are put into new situations that will be necessary to get ahead. I know Gaga rebelled a lot against the entertainment industry and against conformity but she is at a point in her life right now where she probably wants to conform, stabilize and relax... not everything she does has to be groundbreaking and challenging societal norms. There is NOTHING wrong about her doing what she does now. I always took Gaga as someone who is strong and intelligent and independent. I believe that she does what she really wants to do in terms of her music and acting career choices. Like COME ON-Joanne was definitely her idea and not Interscopes. They could have turned her into a Katy Perry pop star but they didn't and I am sure Gaga would not like that either. She has agency and she can decide for herself whats best. This is definitely maturity and growth on her part and she is still, in my opinion, rebelling and doing what SHE WANTS TO DO! A Star is Born is definitely something she is passionate about and Joanne meant a lot to her. If she is happy doing what she wants, this is not bad... she is growing up and changing - like all of us too!

A messy blend of logic and sass
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LaLa
40 minutes ago, Didymus said:

 

Because she claimed to be in control, to know what she was doing, to portray an act in public, to be a "con artist of fame". I'm not expecting her to not be affected by her emotional troubles. I just didn't expect she assumed we cared. I'm just here for the art. Her feelings she should keep for her shrink. Sorry if that sounds mean, but that's the way it is for me.

 

 
2

I think this sentiment is the heart of why no conclusion can ever be reached in these types of threads.

You are just here for the art, and that is valid. Lots of people would argue that that is the only valid way to view art. That we should be able to look at a painting or read a book or hear a song, and know nothing about the artist, and view it completely through our own personal lens. Which is true!

But for some people the artist herself, and her inner life, are just as important as the art. For myself, I'd even go so far to say that the Gaga as a person is more important to me than anything she could produce. 

I care if she is happy and healthy, and if that means riding her horse to Starbucks or whatever then so be it.

I don't think either 'type' of fan is more or less valid, but I don't think we're ever going to be in agreement, and I think we should stop trying to be.

 

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Didymus
7 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

At the end of the day, Gaga was given a big platform and she's using it for a good purpose- to help others with their own struggles. 

Oh, really? :poot:

Is this "celebrities actually care" myth still alive? Come on. She didn't quit music to study psychotherapy. She makes a song about let's all hold hands, we can make it together. I'll leave that to other pop stars. What set her apart in the past was her perspective. I don't get how suddenly we should stop appreciating that and simply cheer her on for giving an interview about mental illness once in a while, with no expertise on the subject at all, like whut... I thought we were stanning for an artist.

9 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

It's not a huge relevation to have mental health issues but so what? She wants to bring something good to this world so even that is met with criticsm?

I don't criticize it, it's just boring and dull compared to what she was doing, which is providing artworks that were already discussing mental health issues, but in a creative and therapeutic way rather than just a speech at some rich people event.

11 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

When she's into a project, she's all about the work. She's super proffesional in that case and always focuses on the work itself. What do you know about her fiance or her mansion in Malibu? What do you know about what she does on the daily basis outside of her work?

I don't know anything. Nor do you. So I don't get how that's relevant for the conversation.

Point is: she's free to do whatever she wants. I'm just upset with the fans who don't understand that many of us are having trouble accepting all of the massive changes. Like, sorry we're not buying the whole personality cult thing, sorry we're just interested in art, sorry we'd just like to discuss her work instead of applauding her and idolizing her for saying something about real people troubles. Sorry we understand that Selena ****ing Gomez is doing the exact same thing...

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Ronlop
2 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

I'm judging the quality of her output. I'm judging her for her lack of ambition musically, her lack of intellectualism, her embracing what she used to mock. I'm a part of the public and she's trying to sell me something. We all have the right to judge her work. I'm not "putting her in a box" when I say that I want something ambitious or intelligent from her. I'm saying that she should work to improve. I'm asking for growth rather than imposing a limitation. The fact that I don't expect work at that level is exactly the problem. :saladga:

Well you can be disappointed by the quality of her output as I said but from there to criticize the way she chooses to live her life because it mocks some senetence she said in 2009 about Hollywood and celebrities... That's more than judging the quality of her output, to me. People change and so does Gaga.

If you would've seen so much lack of ambition musically and lack of intellectualism and you're still here, that means there is something that still pulls you in.

I am also not quite a fan of her recent career moves because they are not interesting or highly enetertaining to me but I know that when given the right project, she could make something incredible again. And I don't need her to live a artsty lifestyle in New York because you deem is better for her or wear a meat dress for that. Because I just want the actual work itself to blow me away.

 

 

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Didymus
6 minutes ago, LaLa said:

But for some people the artist herself, and her inner life, are just as important as the art. For myself, I'd even go so far to say that the Gaga as a person is more important to me than anything she could produce. 

I care if she is happy and healthy, and if that means riding her horse to Starbucks or whatever then so be it.

But don't you think that's just because we're culturally stimulated to care more about rich people than ourselves? :duck: Isn't that the whole celebrity cult thing that Gaga herself made fun of in one of her first interviews? She asked: "why do we care?" I still ask that question. It's important.

Anyway, I do really appreciate your reply, and I do agree with your final conclusion: we probably are never gonna reach a conclusion. But I do think we can stimulate each other to think in more nuanced ways. I definitely need to be reminded once in a while that at the end of the day Gaga is a person and she doesn't owe me ****. On the other hand, I also think some people need to be reminded that they might make constant excuses for a woman who doesn't care about them at all, and is mainly interested in all of your money :air: Like, is it really healthy to sustain this fake relationship with a celebrity you're never going to meet? Is it laudable for Gaga to keep such a thing going? It feels almost abusive to me...

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Monster2015

I mean I love Gaga so much but sometimes her “speeches” or “sentimental segments” can come off as contradicting and sometimes questions her intentions. For example, all of her speeches before her tributes. Like I feel like it’s just a way to heighten the emotion in the moment but the authenticity of what she’s saying is questionable. 

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HighwayFantasy

This is the very first moment in all my stan-years since just dance that I can't handle her anymore. Oh my goodness she is just to extra and dramatic for me now. Ever since the premiere of ASIB she is just pulling of the most ridiculous quotes and looks just to fake for me at this point. I am glad when Enigma starts and she just can be the popstar again instead of this drama era. I mean, its a freaking MOVIE gaga, not the end of the world. There, I said it :messga:

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Ronlop
2 minutes ago, Didymus said:

On the other hand, I also think some people need to be reminded that they might make constant excuses for a woman who doesn't care about them at all, and is mainly interested in all of your money :air: Like, is it really healthy to sustain this fake relationship with a celebrity you're never going to meet? Is it laudable for Gaga to keep such a thing going? It feels almost abusive to me...

I understand why some are disappointed. Who she was is not who she is now.

But it's not that black or white sdkjfs :air: You're taking this a little bit too seriously, in my opinion.

You are giving her the same criticism a prime minister would get for "betraying his country". It's just pop music and she's just an entertainer. She doesn't owe you ****. Period

And it's not unhealthy (lets exaggerate it more shall we) to have this "fake" relationship because it doesn't do anyone any harm. Disappointed fans can leave anytime and Gaga is not awfully fake to her entire existence on this planet. 

Like Gaga once said: "It's just pop music. Not brain surgery". Everything is FINE. You can be disappointed and leave and it'll be okay. And you can stick here to watch more from her hoping for something to blow you away which is also fine.

It's not abusive and it's not anything unhealthy. Please don't make this what it's not skjdf

 

 

 

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Bae

She's so confusing but it's not surprising since she's already admitted to having identity issues. 

Let's take you to Chanel cuz' you look like hell.

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LaLa
6 minutes ago, Didymus said:

But don't you think that's just because we're culturally stimulated to care more about rich people than ourselves? :duck: Isn't that the whole celebrity cult thing that Gaga herself made fun of in one of her first interviews? She asked: "why do we care?" I still ask that question. It's important.

Anyway, I do really appreciate your reply, and I do agree with your final conclusion: we probably are never gonna reach a conclusion. But I do think we can stimulate each other to think in more nuanced ways. I definitely need to be reminded once in a while that at the end of the day Gaga is a person and she doesn't owe me ****. On the other hand, I also think some people need to be reminded that they might make constant excuses for a woman who doesn't care about them at all, and is mainly interested in all of your money :air:Like, is it really healthy to sustain this fake relationship with a celebrity you're never going to meet? Is it laudable for Gaga to keep such a thing going? It feels almost abusive to me...

1

These are very valid points, and I definitely don't mean to say we shouldn't have these discussions. Just that we shouldn't really expect to change anyone's mind, lol.

For me, there are lots of people I am a 'fan' of, which is to say a 'fan of their work', where I know next to nothing about them personally, nor do I care. I really do get where you're coming from.

I'm sure it's my own personal **** that makes me feel this way about Gaga, of course, it is, but I also think that's perfectly fine. I truly don't expect anything from her. I actually don't want her to live or die by her fans, that isn't healthy for anyone.  

But she brings joy to my life, and I'm not going to worry too much about the why of it. This world is shitty, and we all need an outlet.

 

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Didymus
8 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

You are giving her the same criticism a prime minister would get for "betraying his country". It's just pop music and she's just an entertainer. She doesn't owe you ****. Period

You quoted from a post where I wrote this:

"I definitely need to be reminded once in a while that at the end of the day Gaga is a person and she doesn't owe me ****."

So, yeah. I know.

9 minutes ago, Ronlop said:

And it's not unhealthy (lets exaggerate it more shall we) to have this "fake" relationship because it doesn't do anyone any harm.

I don't know... does caring about a celebrity's happiness more than your own no harm? (that's what I was talking about, not being a fan in general, Jesus...) I'm not so easily convinced. I've seen plenty of fans here throughout the years who have spent more money on Gaga's career than on their own.

Pop music thrives on people signing their lives and time away to create better circumstances for someone they idolize but never even get to meet or talk to. I don't understand how you can so quickly argue that there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

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giskardsb

On mobile not gonna quote but @Didymus you say the Fame was a huge artistic thing but you must be looking beyond the music because nothing musically wa groundbreaking.  Some good stuff but dance pop all the same. I would argue that BTW is much more groundbreaking musically. 

Let’s be honest, where was “Gaga” before lady starlight and LES?  Nowhere. Gaga clearly was a piece of performance art, but still and extension of who she wanted to be.  She may revisit that, or may not.  I hope she does.  However, I find it annoying how many fans discount the art in excellent vocal interpretation.  

It’s like while many couldn’t see Stefani underneath the glitz, many of you can’t see Gaga without it. 

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Didymus
4 minutes ago, LaLa said:

These are very valid points, and I definitely don't mean to say we shouldn't have these discussions. Just that we shouldn't really expect to change anyone's mind, lol.

For me, there are lots of people I am a 'fan' of, which is to say a 'fan of their work', where I know next to nothing about them personally, nor do I care. I really do get where you're coming from.

I'm sure it's my own personal **** that makes me feel this way about Gaga, of course, it is, but I also think that's perfectly fine. I truly don't expect anything from her. I actually don't want her to live or die by her fans, that isn't healthy for anyone.  

But she brings joy to my life, and I'm not going to worry too much about the why of it. This world is shitty, and we all need an outlet. 

Well, all the best of luck to you :hug:

As much as I like to overanalyze and criticize her, Gaga still remains a source of joy for me as well. I still feel empowered and inspired by her early work, and I absolutely love ASIB and her music for and performance in it. Still plenty of good stuff for me to stick around.

And I do totally get where you're coming from as well. When Gaga succeeds in something I also still feel like it's somehow my achievement too, or something, you know that feeling? I'm sure you do. There's nothing essentially bad about that, I guess. But it can go to extremes, just like my cynicism can. I actually like that there's many people from different backgrounds and perspectives here, we can keep an eye on each other. I've met some amazing people here and that's also because of her, kind of :whitney:

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