Unearthed Clip: Mel B calling out Blackface

[ZiggyZiggs 29,846]

‘BuT ItS CULtuRe’ ‘itS trAdITioN’

well update it sweeties, it’s 2018

and read this before u defend this ****

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/the-controversial-christmas-tradition-of-blackface-in-the-netherlands-1.3336142?mode=amp

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

When you use tradition to excuse your obvious racism...

[Kimmo 76,574]

Woke Kween since the 90s 

Rappers, Activists, Artists, Politicians and everyone else in 2018 were found shaking 

[Pablo 6,938]

 what county were they in? 

[ZiggyZiggs 29,846]

2 minutes ago, Pablo said:

 what county were they in? 

The Netherlands  it’s literally supposed to be one of the most forward thinking countries in Europe. The UN back in 2011/12 asked them to get rid of the holiday but the government  said no

[River 90,351]

At 0:28 isn’t it Rebbeca Madder?!?!? Same body language and face structure..

[Jonathanholland 5,108]

While I do agree it's racist and Black Pete should be abolished the tradion arguement is not that unfounded. People need to understand every boy and girl in the Netherlands grew up with Saint Nicolas and Black Pete as childhood heroes. The Petes go through the Chimney and put presents in children's shoes. While it's absolutely no arguement for racism it explains why people here feel so offended by the assaults on Black Pete. The discussion is growing stronger each year and chances are slowly being made. While I understand Black Pete looks massively racist if you're not familiar with the story, you should keep in mind 99% of the people here have always viewed him as a child friend and these people should have time to learn seeing him for what he really is. 

[Supersonic 49,375]

9 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

The Netherlands  it’s literally supposed to be one of the most forward thinking countries in Europe. The UN back in 2011/12 asked them to get rid of the holiday but the government  said no

We've been talking about that holiday a lot in my university classes and how often racism in Europe gets defended with "It's just part of their culture." while at the same time American race relations are mocked as totally backwards and unreasonable. This topic came up a few years ago as well and there were a LOT of people on here who defended the use of blackface. Most of them (quelle surprise) were not Dutch or had no prior idea of what Zwarte Piet actually is.

[TMM90 2,797]

11 minutes ago, JonathanHolland1 said:

While I do agree it's racist and Black Pete should be abolished the tradion arguement is not that unfounded. People need to understand every boy and girl in the Netherlands grew up with Saint Nicolas and Black Pete as childhood heroes. The Petes go through the Chimney and put presents in children's shoes. While it's absolutely no arguement for racism it explains why people here feel so offended by the assaults on Black Pete. The discussion is growing stronger each year and chances are slowly being made. While I understand Black Pete looks massively racist if you're not familiar with the story, you should keep in mind 99% of the people here have always viewed him as a child friend and these people should have time to learn seeing him for what he really is. 

Sorry hoor, maar hoe zwarte piet word afgebeeld is stereotype slaaf.

Having an innocent meaning behind it, doesn’t mean the way Black pete is portrayed isn’t racist.

people who come out of the chimney aren’t black/brown and don’t have big gold earrings and big red lips. 

[ZiggyZiggs 29,846]

13 minutes ago, JonathanHolland1 said:

While I do agree it's racist and Black Pete should be abolished the tradion arguement is not that unfounded. People need to understand every boy and girl in the Netherlands grew up with Saint Nicolas and Black Pete as childhood heroes. The Petes go through the Chimney and put presents in children's shoes. While it's absolutely no arguement for racism it explains why people here feel so offended by the assaults on Black Pete. The discussion is growing stronger each year and chances are slowly being made. While I understand Black Pete looks massively racist if you're not familiar with the story, you should keep in mind 99% of the people here have always viewed him as a child friend and these people should have time to learn seeing him for what he really is. 

You can celebrate a black hero without making him a caricature or pretending to be him by literally painting your face CHARCOAL BLACK. This just shows how black people can do amazing things in the world and their achievements will be overshadowed by something with racist af undertones. 

To people who celebrate this holiday: Next time you dress up in blackface ask yourself, would Black Pete find this amusing? 

[Supersonic 49,375]

4 minutes ago, JonathanHolland1 said:

While I do agree it's racist and Black Pete should be abolished the tradion arguement is not that unfounded. People need to understand every boy and girl in the Netherlands grew up with Saint Nicolas and Black Pete as childhood heroes. The Petes go through the Chimney and put presents in children's shoes. While it's absolutely no arguement for racism it explains why people here feel so offended by the assaults on Black Pete. The discussion is growing stronger each year and chances are slowly being made. While I understand Black Pete looks massively racist if you're not familiar with the story, you should keep in mind 99% of the people here have always viewed him as a child friend and these people should have time to learn seeing him for what he really is. 

I think there's an easy way out of this situation: Make Zwarte Piet an actual black person. Not like there aren't any in the Netherlands, colonialism brought a lot of black people there. Just make it Saint Nicolas and his actual friend Pete who just happens to be black,

But I feel like there's a lot of people who are very opposed to that. Meaning that, there are lot of white Dutch people who insist that Zwarte Piet should continue to exist as it is and that black people who feel bad about it should shut up. It's just a very hard conversation to have overall because one side is like.... extremely resisting any sort of change because they have the illusion that tradition and culture are omnipresent things that are both very old and non-changeable when culture and tradition are actually the exact opposite.

[PunkTheFunk 121,449]

What a disturbing "tradition" 

[Jonathanholland 5,108]

19 minutes ago, TMM90 said:

Sorry hoor, maar hoe zwarte piet word afgebeeld is stereotype slaaf.

 

English please, other people should be able to understand the discussion too. 

Please read what I say before actually commenting. I agree Black Pete is a slave, I just say people need time to comprehend this. 

16 minutes ago, Supersonic said:

I think there's an easy way out of this situation: Make Zwarte Piet an actual black person. Not like there aren't any in the Netherlands, colonialism brought a lot of black people there. Just make it Saint Nicolas and his actual friend Pete who just happens to be black,

But I feel like there's a lot of people who are very opposed to that. Meaning that, there are lot of white Dutch people who insist that Zwarte Piet should continue to exist as it is and that black people who feel bad about it should shut up. It's just a very hard conversation to have overall because one side is like.... extremely resisting any sort of change because they have the illusion that tradition and culture are omnipresent things that are both very old and non-changeable when culture and tradition are actually the exact opposite.

Well problem in the discussion is that the exact origin of black Pete isn't clear. Many people say he's black because he went through the chimney. I know that idea is kinda absurd since the hair, lips, earrings and clothing are very stereotype, but the appearance of Pete is currently being chanced to a white male with coal stripes over his face (see pics below). 

Truth is that many people take it very personal and feel emotional attached to the tradition. This discussion together with the migration crisis has a deep polarizing effect on the society. We're moving the right way but it definitely needs some time. 

 

 

[hausofcy 20,027]

They're black because they jump through chimneys to get presents in little kids' shoes on saint nicholas day. It has nothing to do with racism. Europe (especially the Netherlands and Belgium) aren't racist at all when it comes to black people. Most of the time they aren't even totally black but they have like "ash wipes" on their face like the picture above. Anyhow I feel sad for kids that believe in saint nicholas and have to hear about all of this on the news so they don't get to experience this equivalent of santa and his little helpers while believing in it

[Sanne Godijn 2,203]

58 minutes ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

The Netherlands  it’s literally supposed to be one of the most forward thinking countries in Europe. The UN back in 2011/12 asked them to get rid of the holiday but the government  said no

They didnt aks to get rid of the holiday only black pete